Remembering Hiroshima

JonDouglas said:
Any discussion of Hiroshima seems to bring out the arm-chair generals, apologists, revisionists, ideologues and virtue signalers, none of whom had to witness the horrors being ravaged on the peoples of India, China, Burma, Malasia, Singapore, Korea, New Guinea, etc. Nobody here had to walk in the shoes of our servicemen as they faced the brutality of the Japanese army. Nobody here had to try to figure out which actions would result in the lowest loss of life. Nobody here ever interviewed the people of Japan as to their intent or saw the weapons that were stored away for an invasion of their home islands. I doubt if anyone here has read and studied the intercepted communications of the period. Nobody here witnessed what happened on Okinawa. Nobody here had face what might have happened if Manshu Detachment 731 had been given just a little more time.

And yet, people talk, some with a degree of arrogance, as if they know what they're talking about. Such is the nature of forums.
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To avoid accusations of arrogance, what I post on the war is heresay, although my father did enlist the day after Pearl Harbor, and as a transport pilot spent time in the Pacific. ...
I have read that the Japanese, in preparation for invasion of the home islands had scheduled the killing of all POWs to free up their guards to fight. Their treatment of the Chinese was particularly abhorrent, aside from mass murder, rape of Chinese women was systematic, widespread and routine. After the 1942 Doolittle bombing of Tokyo, one of the bombers, out of fuel, put down in the sea off the coast of China and members of the crew were rescued by villagers. In reprisal the Japanese exterminated the villagers and killed more than 250,000 Chinese residents of the province. Etc.
 

JonDouglas said:
And yet, people talk, some with a degree of arrogance, as if they know what they're talking about. Such is the nature of forums.
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Yeah it is, and I am as guilty as anyone.

Events like this of such historic importance beg for understanding. Trying to put one's head where the heads of our leaders were then is probably a good thing. And so is talking about it.

I don't know of any one other single American WWII decision that was as historically important as the decision to drop the bomb. Not that decisions like the invasions of France, Italy etc. were not important but those were more a collection of decisions and consensus. This one was much closer to a simple yes/no.

For me it mostly makes me glad to have never been faced with such a decision. That said so far I have not seen anything that would have lead me to do differently from what was done. Hopefully the world has learned enough from it not to do it again.
 
ElCastor said:
That Japanese internment just enrages me. J Edgar Hoover said he advised FDR that the FBI knew which Japanese posed a threat and there was no need for a general internment, but FDR did it anyway. When I was a kid an Oakland librarian got several of us together and told us a story. His parents gardener was Japanese and required to report to an internment camp. He had a Bonsai tree that had been in the family for 100 years, but he couldn't take it with him to the camp. He gave the tree to the librarian's father to care for until he was released. The father did his best, but it died. I had a teacher who worked in the dreaded Manzanar internment camp, located in a California desert that can get up to 110 degrees in the summer. A Japanese woman gave birth on a murderously hot day, and the baby died. They buried it in a shoe box. Telling that story brought tears to his eyes. There is more, much more -- enough to make my blood boil.
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@ElCastor

Just last night, I finished reading a book by Japanese-Canadian writer, Terry Watada, titled "The Three Pleasures". It outlines the internment of JC's and their treatment by the Canadian government. I've read
a few books related to this subject, but this is the most in-depth.

As a Canadian-born person of Japanese descent, as well as being the daughter of a Japanese-Canadian who went to war for our country - I am conflicted as to the realities of the cruelty the Japanese Imperial soldiers inflicted on POW's.
 

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Alligatorob said:
Yeah it is, and I am as guilty as anyone.

Events like this of such historic importance beg for understanding. Trying to put one's head where the heads of our leaders were then is probably a good thing. And so is talking about it.

I don't know of any one other single American WWII decision that was as historically important as the decision to drop the bomb. Not that decisions like the invasions of France, Italy etc. were not important but those were more a collection of decisions and consensus. This one was much closer to a simple yes/no.

For me it mostly makes me glad to have never been faced with such a decision. That said so far I have not seen anything that would have lead me to do differently from what was done. Hopefully the world has learned enough from it not to do it again.
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Truman did not make this decision lightly and conferred with all the leaders of the military involved in the Pacific War at that time. He was not happy to have to make that final decision at all and it haunted him for the remainder of his life.
 
Pinky said:
@ElCastor

Just last night, I finished reading a book by Japanese-Canadian writer, Terry Watada, titled "The Three Pleasures". It outlines the internment of JC's and their treatment by the Canadian government. I've read
a few books related to this subject, but this is the most in-depth.

As a Canadian-born person of Japanese descent, as well as being the daughter of a Japanese-Canadian who went to war for our country - I am conflicted as to the realities of the cruelty the Japanese Imperial soldiers inflicted on POW's.
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Nothing to be conflicted about, the cruelty of WWII Japanese soldiers was unparalleled in modern times, but the internment of Japanese civilians, more than half of whom were US citizens, was likewise unparalleled and completely uncalled for.
 
ElCastor said:
Nothing to be conflicted about, the cruelty of WWII Japanese soldiers was unparalleled in modern times, but the internment of Japanese civilians, more than half of whom were US citizens, was likewise unparalleled and completely uncalled for.
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We are responsible for our own actions, what the Japanese soldiers did should not have had any bearing on what we did with the US Japanese living here.

What is hard to reconcile is the difference in how we treated the Japanese Americans vs Italian or German Americans. Just a sad part of our history.
 
Alligatorob said:
We are responsible for our own actions, what the Japanese soldiers did should not have had any bearing on what we did with the US Japanese living here.

What is hard to reconcile is the difference in how we treated the Japanese Americans vs Italian or German Americans. Just a sad part of our history.
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I completely agree. Interestingly, My wife was born here, but her parents were Italian immigrants who arrived in the US in the 30's. Her father became a citizen in 1943 and her mother, never. When the war began my wife had not been born, but both her parents were in effect enemy aliens living in San Francisco. In fact at one time her father had been a member of the Italian army. Her parents situation was far different than that of Japanese Americans -- just 3 things, their camera and radio were confiscated, and if there was a line to buy a rationed food item they had to go to the end of the line. That was it, camera, radio, and end of the line while Japanese Americans lost their homes, businesses, and farms and were locked up in concentration camps! Grrrrr!!
 
My father was in WW ll in Europe, he was part of the units that liberated Dachau. As such I have been told just what the Nazi's were capable of in terms of cruelity. I worked with many WWll veterans , most of them were in the Pacific , one even survived the Bataan death march. Where 70,000 starving & many very ill Filipino citizens & captured Americans were force marched 63 miles. Being beaten & shot if they fell .... along the way. Those guys said [& my dad agreed] that .... the Nazi's were den mothers by comparison .... when it came to curelity!

Read the Louie Zamperini story or watch the movie about it ... Unbroken .

My dad told me that after the surrender by the Nazi's , they [his outfits] were told to be ready to go to Japan for the invasion . He said that the opinion was that millons of lives both American & Japanese would have been lost in a ground based invasion ..... The dropping of the bomb was indeed necessary ...... See link below

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-atomic-bomb-saved-millionsincluding-japanese-11596663957
 
I am hoping that is more saber rattling than anything else. If not, we might as well kiss our loved ones goodbye, for it will lead to massive annihilation for no reason whatsoever. Wars do not ever resolve one single thing and are totally unjustified in my opinion.
 
Why did Japan continue fighting when the war was lost?
Japan has a concept termed 'Spirit Warrior:,'* '
'Our flesh and blood can withstand the Americans bullets, bombs and their troops, because our spirits are strong.'
A peculiar concept to Americans, but the American Indians had similar concepts.

The A-bombs were an inconvenience to Japan's High Command, they did not hit the Japanese troops which had been spread all over Japan at perceive landing sites of the Americans.
Russia's invasion of Korea, showed Japan that another strong enemy was also willing to destroy Japan. A invasion from two strong enemies finally convinced Japan to surrender.
(* Flyboys by James Bradley)
 
Ah yes, watching videos on CNN of all the pretty tanks, jets, troops and the pretty Russian Troops practicing invasion:
pretty, pretty, pretty...
 
Lewkat said:
I am hoping that is more saber rattling than anything else. If not, we might as well kiss our loved ones goodbye, for it will lead to massive annihilation for no reason whatsoever. Wars do not ever resolve one single thing and are totally unjustified in my opinion.
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So you would have been fine with Hitler taking total control of Europe ? And would have had no fear of the Nazi's attacking us ??

Or should we have never defended ourselves against Japan ... after the attack on Pearl Harbor ?
 
rgp said:
So you would have been fine with Hitler taking total control of Europe ? And would have had no fear of the Nazi's attacking us ??

Or should we have never defended ourselves against Japan ... after the attack on Pearl Harbor ?
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How do you determine to get inside my mind? Did I ever state what you have decided I intended in my comment that I approved of Hitler, the Nazis or the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. War encompasses all nations. If you think I approved of Hitler or anyone else starting a war, you are completely off your rocker. Don't be so presumptuous, it is most unbecoming.
 
Pinky said:
I am conflicted as to the realities of the cruelty the Japanese Imperial soldiers inflicted on POW's.
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You don't need to be any more than I, as a partly Irish-American, should feel bad about some of the IRA's atrocities. Your father honorably served his country, that is what you and your family are about.

It is interesting reading your posts, sounds like Japanese-Canadians were treated somewhat like Japanese-Americans during the war. I did not know that.
 
Lewkat said:
How do you determine to get inside my mind? Did I ever state what you have decided I intended in my comment that I approved of Hitler, the Nazis or the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. War encompasses all nations. IWars do not ever resolve one single thing and are totally unjustified in my opinion. most unbecoming.
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How do you determine to get inside my mind? Did I ever state what you have decided I intended in my comment that I approved of Hitler, the Nazis or the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. War encompasses all nations. If you think I approved of Hitler or anyone else starting a war, you are completely off your rocker. Don't be so presumptuous, it is most unbecoming.


"If you think I approved of Hitler or anyone else starting a war, you are completely off your rocker. "

Of course I don not think that , as you posted.


"Wars do not ever resolve one single thing and are totally unjustified in my opinion."

So , no presumptions here....... I merely asked you two questions .

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rgp said:
How do you determine to get inside my mind? Did I ever state what you have decided I intended in my comment that I approved of Hitler, the Nazis or the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. War encompasses all nations. If you think I approved of Hitler or anyone else starting a war, you are completely off your rocker. Don't be so presumptuous, it is most unbecoming.



"If you think I approved of Hitler or anyone else starting a war, you are completely off your rocker. "

Of course I don not think that , as you posted.


"Wars do not ever resolve one single thing and are totally unjustified in my opinion."

So , no presumptions here....... I merely asked you two questions .

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Your wording of questions carry implications based on my comment. You did not "merely" ask 2 questions. They were accusative questions. Regardless, we did not start that war, and yes we defended ourselves and allies alike against the evil. It is, according to historians, a good war due to the savagery that was practiced by the enemies. However, in the end, no one who was there came out of all that without having becoming beastly. Depraved behavior will do that to the human mind.
 
Lewkat said:
Your wording of questions carry implications based on my comment. You did not "merely" ask 2 questions. They were accusative questions. Regardless, we did not start that war, and yes we defended ourselves and allies alike against the evil. It is, according to historians, a good war due to the savagery that was practiced by the enemies. However, in the end, no one who was there came out of all that without having becoming beastly. Depraved behavior will do that to the human mind.
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And your wording ........... "Wars do not ever resolve one single thing and are totally unjustified in my opinion."

Indicate that you would not defend against aggression .... Hence my questions without accusation attached.
 
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