There are two basics facts which need to be accepted.
- Thread starter Lavinia
- Start date
- Status
Capt Lightning
Well-known Member
- Location
- Historic Buchan, Scotland
1. True. Even if you change your appearance, your body does not fully function in a different gender.
2. It doesn't really matter where you were born, it's where you call home that matters.
2. It doesn't really matter where you were born, it's where you call home that matters.
Alligatorob
SF VIP
Not sure I completely agree.
#1 - of course you cannot change your genetics, you will always be XX or XY. However I have no problem with people who want to be viewed as a gender different from their genetics. Not something I really understand, but I am happy to live and let live. I know it does raise some problems when it comes to sports, no idea how that should be resolved.
#2 - Same thing, you can't change your genetics, but you certainly can change your home and place of allegiance. I consider people like Albert Einstein, Henry Kissinger, Alexander Hamilton, Levi Strauss, and Madeleine Albright to have been Americans... Guess it kind of depends on how you define ethnicity.
Last edited:
Medusa
Well-known Member
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
While I respect your opinion, the fact is that a person can change their gender; many, many have and more continue to do so. (I'm not using the more appropriate "sex" here because a person cannot change their chromosomes.) Not simply for those who were, as it is said, "born in the wrong body," but those born, for example, hermaphrodites or intersex. What are they supposed to do? Ignore the fact they can be helped (if they choose to) in favor of "nature?" I mean, that is or those are the sex(s) they were born with.
A person cannot change their chromosones, but they can certainly change their gender. And why shouldn't they? Every person has the right to feel comfortable and happy in their own skin.
A person cannot change their chromosones, but they can certainly change their gender. And why shouldn't they? Every person has the right to feel comfortable and happy in their own skin.
Last edited:
hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
true, being born in a stable doesn't make you a donkey
Medusa
Well-known Member
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Our posts popped up at nearly the same time here, @Alligatorob.
This is from dictionairy.com (which I normally avoid - dictionairies defs. I mean, because I'm descriptive as opposed to prescriptive and understand the fluidity of language, but I like the way this particular definition acknowledges this.
An ethnicity is a social group that shares a common and distinctive culture, religion, or language. It also refers to a person's ethnic traits, background, allegiance, or association. Like race, the meaning and use of the word ethnicity has changed over the last few centuries.Jul 31, 2020
It seems similar to gender in that you can probably change it, change all the trappings, including physically altering your body, but of course, cannot change your genetics.
Last edited:
Ronni
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nashville TN
I disagree.
There’s a vast difference between chromosomal distribution, and gender identity
Similar vast differences between the geographical location in which you were born/social group you were born into, and one’s allegiances or practices.
One’s sexual organs or chromosomes don’t define gender any more than skin color or facial features defines ethnicity.
These are surface trappings. It’s like saying all vegetables that are green must be broccoli and all fruits that are orange must be carrots.
Have you (the general you not the OP specifically) never felt comfortable in your own skin? I most certainly have, for example when I was 40 pounds heavier than I am now. When I was living by my ex’s strict rules and edicts and made to confirm to a behavior and lifestyle that was foreign to me. At those times in my life, there was a constant low hum of thought, a repeating refrain of “this is not who I am, who is this person I’ve become?” etc.
I realize this is different from the gender and ethnicity questions, but there are enough similarities (to me anyway) that they may spark some additional conversation.
There’s a vast difference between chromosomal distribution, and gender identity
Similar vast differences between the geographical location in which you were born/social group you were born into, and one’s allegiances or practices.
One’s sexual organs or chromosomes don’t define gender any more than skin color or facial features defines ethnicity.
These are surface trappings. It’s like saying all vegetables that are green must be broccoli and all fruits that are orange must be carrots.
Have you (the general you not the OP specifically) never felt comfortable in your own skin? I most certainly have, for example when I was 40 pounds heavier than I am now. When I was living by my ex’s strict rules and edicts and made to confirm to a behavior and lifestyle that was foreign to me. At those times in my life, there was a constant low hum of thought, a repeating refrain of “this is not who I am, who is this person I’ve become?” etc.
I realize this is different from the gender and ethnicity questions, but there are enough similarities (to me anyway) that they may spark some additional conversation.
Alligatorob
SF VIP
Thanks @Medusa, that is helpful. If we defined ethnicity by genetics then there really are no Americans, we all came from somewhere else. Even the Native Americans, just further into the past. I know my origins are Irish/Scottish/English, and so on. However I certainly consider myself American ethnically. Genetics have nothing to do with it...
Aunt Bea
SF VIP
- Location
- Near Mount Pilot
I don't have to understand it.
All I have to do is accept it.
"It takes courage to grow up and become who you really are." - e.e. cummings
All I have to do is accept it.
"It takes courage to grow up and become who you really are." - e.e. cummings
oldpeculier
Member
One often hears the word "fair" these days. Males that for whatever reason, or way, now declaring to be female should not be allowed to compete in female sports, IMO.
Suggest competition to exist exclusively between and against those who view their gender different from their genetics. That would be fair.
fuzzybuddy
SF VIP
- Location
- The Sticks, Northeast PA.
It depends on how you look at what is a "male" and what is a "female". It's very simple if you only check between the legs. But humans aren't simple. We come with all kinds of gender self-identification processes, just as determining as gon
There are facts, but the interpretation of those facts is altered by understanding other facts, and their relationship to one another.
And if sports competitions are segregating by " male", and "female", they should determine exactly what they mean by that
There are facts, but the interpretation of those facts is altered by understanding other facts, and their relationship to one another.
And if sports competitions are segregating by " male", and "female", they should determine exactly what they mean by that
Last edited:
Nathan
SF VIP
- Location
- High Desert- Calif.
A common google search result is: "The brain is our biggest sex organ". So what the brain has detected as it's gender identification or preference matters a lot, irregardless of actual genetic attributes. Both males and females have testosterone and estrogen in their bodies, in varying amounts. The fetus starts as a "generic", "blank" until a second X or a Y chromosome is attached. Ever wonder why males have nipples?
Yes, the primary reason creatures(and plants!) have a gender is for procreation, but in higher developed species like humans, the mind has a major role in the administration of it's gender identification. Studies have suggested that in times of stress(environmental, food availability, species over-population) a portion of in utero embryos acquire a greater leaning toward becoming homo sexual, thus reducing the breading population.
Yes, the primary reason creatures(and plants!) have a gender is for procreation, but in higher developed species like humans, the mind has a major role in the administration of it's gender identification. Studies have suggested that in times of stress(environmental, food availability, species over-population) a portion of in utero embryos acquire a greater leaning toward becoming homo sexual, thus reducing the breading population.
horseless carriage
Well-known Member
Quite right Ronni, nature can be unforgiving at times, A hermaphrodite is a person (or plant or animal) that has both male and female sexual organs. Hermaphrodites are rare. It's an unusual word for an unusual condition: The term derives from the Latin: hermaphroditus, from Ancient Greek: hermaphroditos, the son of Hermes and Aphrodite in Greek mythology. This happens to a small number of people who have the reproductive organs of both men and women.
That's right. The only thing that can be changed is the appearance.
Alligatorob
SF VIP
Yep, someone could identify as a grapefruit, but the surgery would be more difficult...
No disrespect meant, I will use whatever pronoun people want and not be judgmental about it.
Well said!
Last edited:
Don M.
SF VIP
- Location
- central Missouri
Transgender Men competing in Women's sports is becoming a concern....and rightly so, IMO.
https://news.yahoo.com/women-apos-group-ceo-dissects-182252197.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
https://news.yahoo.com/women-apos-group-ceo-dissects-182252197.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
horseless carriage
Well-known Member
Read this story, about a spitfire pilot who became a woman and fell in love with a woman who was once a man.
Think I need to go and have a lay down.
Think I need to go and have a lay down.
Sassycakes
SF VIP
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Aunt Bea, I agree with you 100%
Of course you can change your ethnicity. People do it all the time, when they change their allegiance from one country to another, and become citizens of a different place.
Gender? I have problems accepting that. And the sports question is a doozy. Should a big, huge, powerful man who transitions into a "woman" be allowed to compete in women's sports?
Maybe there should be a third type of team that permits male, female, or transitioned (in either direction) people to compete.
Gender? I have problems accepting that. And the sports question is a doozy. Should a big, huge, powerful man who transitions into a "woman" be allowed to compete in women's sports?
Maybe there should be a third type of team that permits male, female, or transitioned (in either direction) people to compete.
OneEyedDiva
SF VIP
- Location
- New Jersey
What if someone has both *******ia between his/her legs? I have a friend who is intersex (the old term is hermaphrodite). It took her mother a long time to tell her that. Perhaps the male part of her anatomy wasn't that pronounced or perhaps she didn't realize everyone wasn't built like her. But the catalyst that triggered her finding out was her wondering why she couldn't have children. Also she had been married. Although we are friends, I never asked how her ex-husband responded to her anatomical anomaly. @Chet
BTW there are others out there in my friend's situation. When my son was in the hospital about 46 years ago, there was a baby there who was a hermaphrodite. I heard the nurses talking about it. Also a couple of decades ago, I saw a special about it. Parents have the right to choose which gender they want their child to be and surgeries are performed when the child is young. Some on the special program I saw felt their parents made the wrong choice and they suffered for it.
@Pecos
Last edited:
Alligatorob
SF VIP
Probably not, it is interesting that we all focus on this problem. Only a small percentage of transgender people are active in sports at a level high enough for it to matter.
The gym I go to has a clientele of about 80% young women. Watching them and comparing makes it pretty clear that should I decide to identify as one of them they'd be quite safe, I can't keep up, LOL!
I've been weigh lifting pretty consistently for a couple of years now and feel like I have really improved, and I have. I can tell you that many of the young ladies, who do not look at all muscular, can out lift me on many things. Other exercises I fair even worse. When it comes to the occasional yoga class I go to it's embarrassing, I mostly serve the purpose of being someone others can compare to and feel good about themselves...
On the other hand they are all quite friendly and nice to me, don't know where else I can go and have so many pretty ladies who know my name and seem to be happy to see me.
Medusa
Well-known Member
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Studies have suggested that in times of stress(environmental, food availability, species over-population) a portion of in utero embryos acquire a greater leaning toward becoming homo sexual, thus reducing the breading population.
@Nathan, I would love to read that as it sounds fascinating. Would you mind sending me a link (here or my profile) if you still have it, please?
Medusa
Well-known Member
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm not sure of the solidness of this source, but I did find this explanaton interesting:
Main Difference – Hermaphrodite vs Intersex
Hermaphrodite and intersex are two conditions where an organism displays both male and female characteristics. The main difference between hermaphrodite and intersex is that hermaphrodite is an organism possessing both types of gonads whereas intersex is an organism possessing several sex characteristics of both male and females such as chromosomes, gonads, sex hormones or *******s. Though the two terms, hermaphrodite and intersex are used synonymously in the last century, intersex is nowadays preferred over hermaphrodite.
https://pediaa.com/difference-between-hermaphrodite-and-intersex/
I like your term, "anatomical anomaly." It's softer and more inclusive.
- Status