Elementary School Shooting in Uvalde Texas

Sigh. For those that feel the need to arm themselves and their home I would suggest they consider a Stevens 20 gauge short barrel pump action shotgun. Granted this may prove inadequate to stop a hoard of rampaging zombies, but it should scare the Hell out of the average home burglar, and a missed shot will not penetrate a couple of walls and kill a neighbor.

BTW - The shotgun will likely comply with state Laws, now or in the future. I gather from your “Ca” location that you might be a California citizen. Are you sure your arsenal is currently in compliance?
LOL - "Arsenal." I always appreciate a sense of humor. I truly believe Laughter is the best medicine.
This is a free country (still). Just as with my health decisions, the only person who can choose my defensive firearms (or whether or not I want to own defensive firearms) is ME.
I don't have the luxury of deciding how many rats are running in packs if they choose to victimize me,) so a shotgun is not my choice.
My next-door neighbors were an elderly couple who were beaten & robbed by a gang of 3 or 4.
We've all heard "Give them what they want & they won't hurt you."
You can't get into a thug's mind & decide what he will do; he will do whatever he wants unless you're able to stop him.
After they were released from the hospital, security gates went up on the house & the owner (a big NBA star) sold the house.
You mentioned "moving to a safer area." The house sold for $5,000,000.00. There is no such thing as a "safe area."
 

The 12 times Texas police have changed their story of what happened during the school shooting that left 19 children dead​

Mia Jankowicz,Rebecca Cohen,Natalie Musumeci
Fri, May 27, 2022, 2:30 PM


Director and Colonel of the Texas Department of Public Safety Steven C. McCraw listens with other law enforcement officials during a press conference outside Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, on May 27, 2022.

Director and Colonel of the Texas Department of Public Safety Steven C. McCraw listens with other law enforcement officials during a press conference outside Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, on May 27, 2022.CHANDAN KHANNA/AFP via Getty Images
  • Texas officials have changed their statements about the mass shooting at Robb Elementary on Thursday at least 12 times.
  • Police initially claimed a school cop confronted the shooter, but walked that back days later.
  • Now authorities say 19 police were ready to confront the suspect but were called off by a commander on scene.
Texas officials on Friday again made crucial changes to their timeline of the shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, adding to the lack of clarity around how the massacre took place and how police responded to the attack.
From the initial reports of the shooting on Tuesday to the most recent news briefing by Director of Texas Department of Public Safety Steven McCraw, police have changed the narrative of how law enforcement reacted to a gunman's rampage in which he killed 19 children and two teachers.
Facing withering criticism from parents, McCraw said that a police commander in charge of the scene — Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District Police Chief Pete Arredondo — refused to send police in to stop the shooting, calling the decision "wrong."
Here are the main changes to details that law enforcement officials have offered since the shooting:

Uvalde Police initially said the gunman was in custody​

In one of the first statements about the shooting, the Uvalde Police Department said on Facebook that the gunman was in police custody.
"Update @ 1:06 Shooter is in Police Custody," the department said in a Facebook post Tuesday.
The department later revealed that a US Border Patrol tactical team fatally shot the gunman inside Robb Elementary.

Nobody actually confronted the gunman before he went in​

At a Wednesday press conference, the director of Texas Department of Public Safety Steve McCraw said that "a brave resource officer" engaged with the gunman.
"At that time, gunfire was not exchanged, but the subject was able to make it into the school," McCraw said.
However, on Thursday, Escalon said this was incorrect.
"There was not an officer readily available and armed," Escalon said at a press conference.
And on Friday, McCraw added that the resource officer was not even on school grounds at the time of the shooting.
"There was discussion early on that an ISD ... had confronted the suspect. That did not happen. It was certainly stated in preliminary interviews, but often these preliminary interviews ... witnesses get it wrong," McCraw said Friday.
"The bottom line is that officer was not on scene, not on campus, but had heard the 911 call about the man with a gun, drove immediately to the area, sped to what he thought was the man with the gun, to the back of the school, to what turned out to be a teacher and not the suspect," McCraw continued.
McCraw added that the school police officer actually drove past the gunman, who was hiding behind a car.

How quickly the gunman entered the school​

Police have been consistent in the details of the gunman's attack on his grandmother before the shooting and his crash near a funeral home across the street from the school at 11:28 a.m. on Tuesday.
But police initially said the gunman was confronted before going into the school. On Thursday, Escalon said that the gunman was firing outside the school and entered the school at 11:40 a.m., leaving a 12-minute window that was unexplained.
But on Friday, McCraw said that the shooter actually entered the school at 11:33 a.m., three minutes after a teacher called 911 to report the crash and a gunman on school grounds.

Police arrived on scene quickly but backed off for more than an hour​

At Wednesday's press conference, McCraw said "Bottom line, law enforcement was there, they did engage immediately, they did contain him in a classroom. They put a tactical stack together, in a very orderly way, and breached and assaulted the individual."
Lt Chris Olivarez on Wednesday in an interview with NBC's "Today" show emphasized the speed of the police reaction. He said that police responded "within a moment's notice."
He also said that officers "without hesitation tried to make entry into that school," but were stopped by the gunman firing at them.
But by Thursday, police said that the gunman had not been killed by a US Border Patrol agent until 12:40, raising questions of what happened in the roughly hour between the shooting beginning and the gunman being shot to death.
According to new information from McCraw Friday, three local police officers got to the school at 11:35, just two minutes after the gunman initially entered the building and opened fire. Two of the cops were grazed by bullets as they entered the school, he added.
In this latest description, McCraw said police exchanged gunfire with the suspect until 11:44 a.m. By 11:51 a.m. a police sergeant and federal agent arrived and as of 12:03, there were 19 police officers in the hallway outside the classroom where the gunman was holed up.

Why didn't cops stop the Texas school shooter?​

On Wednesday, Olivarez said, police began breaking windows and evacuating people as the gunman was barricaded in the school until more heavily-armed officers arrived and killed the gunman.
The first narrative did not make clear how long this took. The hour-long discrepancy was revealed on Thursday.
When asked Thursday why officers didn't take down the shooter as he was in the classroom with children, Asked at the press conference why authorities didn't engage sooner, Escalon said: "That's a tough question."
He cited the need to evacuate people as a possible reason, and added in the officers' defense that there was "a lot going on" and that it was "a complex situation."
But parents began sharing that cops outside the school had refused to go in to stop the shooter and restrained parents who tried to go in themselves.
"Nothing is adding up," Jay Martin, a local man, told The Wall Street Journal. "People are just really frustrated because no one is coming out and telling us the real truth of what went down."
One video from outside the school shows police holding back desperate parents who wanted to go into the school and rescue their kids.
One woman, Gladys Castillon, told the Journal that she had been begging police to be more proactive before the arrival of the tactical unit. Officers temporarily handcuffed a mom trying to get into the school, the Journal reported.
The mom ended up jumping a fence and running into the school, pulling her two children to safety herself, according to the Journal.
By Friday, police had new details about the delay: McCraw pointed the blame at the school police chief, Arredondo, who he said ordered police not to engage the suspect because he thought the suspect was "barricaded" and "there were no more children at risk."
McCraw — who wasn't at the scene at the time of the shooting and didn't command the officers at the time — added: "Obviously, based upon the information we have, there were children in that classroom that were at risk and it was, in fact, still an active shooter situation."
He noted that"of course it was not the right decision. It was the wrong decision. There is no excuse for that."
"When there's an active shooter, the rules change," McCraw said. "You don't have time."
The Uvalde school district did not respond to Insider's request for comment.
In fact, McCraw revealed that students inside the classrooms where the gunman was firing called 911 nearly a dozen times over the course of the shooting. One girl begged 911 twice to "send police now" after the gunman killed her teacher and some of her classmates.
According to the last timeline provided by McCraw on Friday, police opened the locked door to the classroom using a key and shot and killed the gunman at 12:50 p.m. — 10 minutes later than initially reported.

Questions still remain about the police response​

Police have given conflicting reports on the timeline of the shooting, though law enforcement officials have noted that it is not unusual for a more complete narrative to form as police investigate.
Still, Texas authorities' news briefings have often left reporters and the public with more questions than answers. Even as of Friday, it was unclear if 911 dispatchers alerted police at the scene to the children still trapped inside with the shooter and police did not say what ultimately convinced the tactical team to breach the classroom and shoot the gunman.
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott on Friday reacted to the new information that was revealed earlier in the day Friday about the police response to the mass shooting, saying, "I was misled."
"I am livid about what happened," said Abbott, who days earlier praised the response by law enforcement.
"As everybody has learned, the information that I was given turned out in part to be inaccurate," Abbott said. "And I am absolutely livid about that."
Read the original article on Insider
Attorney Alan Dershowitz said it best:
One of the important skills police officers are trained in while in the police academy is "Testilying."
 
The police finally admitted they messed up. I am bewildered as to how 19 officers wearing protective armour and carrying rifles can stand in a hallway waiting for keys toopen doors while children die.


How would you have them open the doors ? Did they have 'battering" tools ?

If they are like the industrial doors I remember ? Those are pretty substantial doors,not easily 'knocked' down. And if I recall correctly ? after one or more of the more recent school attacks , the doors were [upgraded] to be even stronger.
 

The police finally admitted they messed up. I am bewildered as to how 19 officers wearing protective armour and carrying rifles can stand in a hallway waiting for keys toopen doors while children die.
They not only have body armor, they also have bulletproof shields - which enable accurate fire during use:
 
If one of those cops failed to go in and try to save little children who were being gunned down because he didn't think he was being paid enough then he is truly a horrible person.

Just how much do you think the lives of 19 children is worth? What price would you demand before you tried to save them? None of them were mine, but if I was there I'm pretty sure I would try to slip inside the school and try to find where the shooter was and try to save them save them and I wouldn't give a moments thought to whether or not I was being paid anything at all.

They had vests, you can see that in the picture and plenty of guns.
All good points. Honest and reasonable post, thank you.
 
How would you have them open the doors ? Did they have 'battering" tools ?

If they are like the industrial doors I remember ? Those are pretty substantial doors,not easily 'knocked' down. And if I recall correctly ? after one or more of the more recent school attacks , the doors were [upgraded] to be even stronger.
I don't understand your logic. Industrial doors are usually on the outside of a building. The police officers were already in the building in the hallway. All had guns, ever watched a wild west movie? Rapid fire can bring a door down.
When police officers are attending a drug bust, they take battering rams. How come these officers did not take the same to this incident?
 
I don't understand your logic. Industrial doors are usually on the outside of a building. The police officers were already in the building in the hallway. All had guns, ever watched a wild west movie? Rapid fire can bring a door down.
When police officers are attending a drug bust, they take battering rams. How come these officers did not take the same to this incident?


I do not base my opinion/argument of reality on the scenes in the movies.

When was the last time you were in a school or a hotel ? Those are some pretty stout doors ... inside / off the hallway. And again I did ask .... did they have battering tools ? I do not know, as i was not there, were you ?

Perhaps the budget of a small town P/D didn't allow for it ?

"All had guns, ever watched a wild west movie? Rapid fire can bring a door down. "

In the movies .... they also get 20-100 shots from a six-shooter.
 
I do not base my opinion/argument of reality on the scenes in the movies.

When was the last time you were in a school or a hotel ? Those are some pretty stout doors ... inside / off the hallway. And again I did ask .... did they have battering tools ? I do not know, as i was not there, were you ?

Perhaps the budget of a small town P/D didn't allow for it ?

"All had guns, ever watched a wild west movie? Rapid fire can bring a door down. "

In the movies .... they also get 20-100 shots from a six-shooter.
You still have not got the point and I have a feeling you are making excuses for the inept officers. I repeat there is a big difference between "stout"doors and "industrial" doors.
 
LOL - "Arsenal." I always appreciate a sense of humor. I truly believe Laughter is the best medicine.
This is a free country (still). Just as with my health decisions, the only person who can choose my defensive firearms (or whether or not I want to own defensive firearms) is ME.
A couple of tips on choosing a safe neighborhood from someone who grew up in Oakland. Never live in a place where you see bars on the windows, and a good Internet source -- investigate an area of interest on: https://www.areavibes.com/ Virtually every city and suburb in the US is listed. I would avoid anywhere with a crime rating lower than A+ or A.

As for who can choose your defensive firearm -- most states, including California, have laws, and after Uvalde they are likely to have more. Obeying the law is always a good idea. I don't recommend shooting a burglar with an illegal weapon -- might tend to backfire on you.
 
A couple of tips on choosing a safe neighborhood from someone who grew up in Oakland. Never live in a place where you see bars on the windows, and a good Internet source -- investigate an area of interest on: https://www.areavibes.com/ Virtually every city and suburb in the US is listed. I would avoid anywhere with a crime rating lower than A+ or A.

As for who can choose your defensive firearm -- most states, including California, have laws, and after Uvalde they are likely to have more. Obeying the law is always a good idea. I don't recommend shooting a burglar with an illegal weapon -- might tend to backfire on you.
I get it. You have trouble staying on a topic. :)
 
You still have not got the point and I have a feeling you are making excuses for the inept officers. I repeat there is a big difference between "stout"doors and "industrial" doors.
It's quite common for retired police officers to go to great lengths to defend all actions of police officers.
Some have even defended Derek Chauvin.
 
The young girl who smeared herself with the blood of one of her slain classmates to avoid being shot said the crazed gunman played 'I want people to die music' as he executed 19 of her classmates, as well as two teachers.

Miah Cerrillo, 11, told CNN that her class was watching the Disney movie Lilo and Stitch because it was the end of the school year when her teacher got an email that there was an active shooter.

But the teacher got the notification too late and as she went to lock the door Ramos was already there and shot through the door window.

According to Cerrillo, Ramos then walked into the fourth grade classroom and looked one of the teachers, either Eva Mireles or Irma Garcia, in the eye and told her 'goodnight' before shooting her.

Cerrillo said after that Ramos began opening fire on the students, striking her with bullet fragments on her back and neck, before he walked towards the connected classroom and continued shooting.

After that Cerrillo said that Ramos started playing 'sad' music that the 11-year-old could only describe as the kind of music you play when 'you want people to die.'

Cerrillo said that she and her friend grabbed her teachers phone to call 911 and out of fear Ramos would return to her classroom and shoot her she smeared the blood of one of her dead classmates onto her and played dead.

The 11-year-old's family said they will be working to help Cerrillo emotionally and mentally, as well as her sister - who is a second-grader at the school - following the shooting.

'At this point, we just have to pray and ask God to help us move forward through this situation. I know it’s traumatizing and having an 11-year-old go through this, I can’t imagine what she’s feeling,' her aunt Blanca Rivera told Click 2 Houston.


58321815-10861413-image-a-39_1653668050234.jpg


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...als-shooter-played-want-people-die-music.html
 
I'd like to hear from the teacher who propped that door open. She didn't just forget to lock it, she purposely propped it open. Was she going out for a smoke?
 
I'd like to hear from the teacher who propped that door open. She didn't just forget to lock it, she purposely propped it open. Was she going out for a smoke?

If we can believe what we hear ? ..... the news story I hear was that she forgot something in the car.
 
If we can believe what we hear ? ..... the news story I hear was that she forgot something in the car.
Ah. Well I pity her, whatever her reason was. What a mistake to have to live with.

Even though I'm furious about it all, I pity the police who were there, too. If they were ordered
by a superior to stand down, I don't know what else they should have done. Now they have to live with the knowledge that all those parents blame them for their children's death.
 
You still have not got the point and I have a feeling you are making excuses for the inept officers. I repeat there is a big difference between "stout"doors and "industrial" doors.


I am not making excuses for anyone, exception being the [as reported] first cop that arrived alone. Was HE swat trained and , as such properly equipped ?

A school is an industrial/commercial building . They have "stout/"industrial" doors ....... Again, not easy to knock down without battering equipment . A cop, or whomever cannot just hit it with his shoulder and go in guns blazing. ...... Again that's the movies.
 
Ah. Well I pity her, whatever her reason was. What a mistake to have to live with.

Even though I'm furious about it all, I pity the police who were there, too. If they were ordered
by a superior to stand down, I don't know what else they should have done. Now they have to live with the knowledge that all those parents blame them for their children's death.


OK, consider this ......... Do you really think [for even a second] that she went to work that day, with even a miniscule inkling that some whack-job kid was going to storm the school to take lives ? She goes out a door to retrieve [something] perhaps does not have a key, to that door that locks automatically, and blocks it open for just a few seconds ....... She is not the devil ..... she is as normal as anyone here.

Most people do not live in a negative world, with constant evil on their minds. Most live in a positive world , and [even though it has happend before] they just cannot conceive of such a thing.
 
It's quite common for retired police officers to go to great lengths to defend all actions of police officers.
Some have even defended Derek Chauvin.


Even though it appears that you think you know everything ...... I am not a retired police officer.

But yes I still do defend Derek Chauvin.
 
Seems that everybody is being blamed for this tragedy except for the primary guilty party: whoever gave or sold that assault weapon to a disturbed teenager. Why the silence about that?
 
If the topic is your love of guns, then yes, I have trouble with it.
^^^ same problem as stated previously. Digression: the action of moving away from the main subject you are writing or talking about and writing or talking about something else: :giggle:
 


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