When bad things happen to good people. (Not the book, a philosophical observation)

chic

chic

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I've heard this is the number one question the clergy faces in their careers and none that I have ever listened to have a satisfying answer to it. How do we answer this one?

I don't want to hear "If you believe you're good, you're arrogant." Or worse, "That's not a question, it's a complaint."

Maybe it's neither but a cry for help because no one is seeing this person's suffering? No one is helping? As someone who has personally experienced the pain of family members and friends who have committed suicide, I know people are often burdened beyond their ability to bear. That's just a fact. But in the cases I have known all could have been saved from this fate if someone, including myself, had a clue how bad the pain was for them and given more. No one really wants to die, they want the pain to stop and see no other option.

I think we, fellow members of the human family, are to blame when someone suffers extremely. It's a heavy statement and one I don't make lightly but it's true. There's always something we can do if only we cared enough to try.

Thoughts and opinions?
 

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In my opinion, everyone has a share of pain and trouble they are dealing with. The world stinks and there is no one who can make the suffering disappear. You simply bear the burden without being a pain in the neck to someone else. In this present time, no one wants to hear it because weak people are anathema. Yes it is a rather bleak observation. I hate being old because I see it clearly now. Ugh. Maybe that's why we are given the merciful gift of death.
 

I have mixed feelings on this one ....
i have seen people whom have gone through a lot of pain and despair as situations that happened to them seemed like a punishment or something but it is in those moments in life that define some they can persevere over things or let it eclipse them. They can grow strong or wither.

basically ever since i was a child the most i heard this phrase " when bad things happen to good people" ........ the people who had something happen to them were not (IMO) good............. and often item that happened was a result of strings of bad choices...
so that phrase always seemed to me as a pity party.
 
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chic said:
I

I think we, fellow members of the human family, are to blame when someone suffers extremely. It's a heavy statement and one I don't make lightly but it's true. There's always something we can do if only we cared enough to try.

Thoughts and opinions?
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I'll respond to that part.
I disagree the suffering of others is not something fellow members of the human family are to be blamed for. Far to many circumstances of suffering to address. Even trained psychologists get it wrong.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=failu....69i57.22234j0j1&pglt=675&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=U531

I think most will try to help if they recognize someone that is suffering in some way. But trying to find words that comfort or actually help isn't easy.
 
chic said:
I've heard this is the number one question the clergy faces in their careers and none that I have ever listed to have a satisfying answer to it. How do we answer this one?

I don't want to hear "If you believe you're good, you're arrogant." Or worse, "That's not a question, it's a complaint."

Maybe it's neither but a cry for help because no one is seeing this person's suffering? No one is helping? As someone who has personally experienced the pain of family members and friends who have committed suicide, I know people are often burdened beyond their ability to bear. That's just a fact. But in the cases I have known all could have been saved from this fate if someone, including myself, had a clue how bad the pain was for them and given more. No one really wants to die, they want the pain to stop and see no other option.

I think we, fellow members of the human family, are to blame when someone suffers extremely. It's a heavy statement and one I don't make lightly but it's true. There's always something we can do if only we cared enough to try.

Thoughts and opinions?
Click to expand...
In today's world, it seems that people are far more self-centered. They can't be bothered about the condition of others. Empathy requires looking beyond oneself and being able to relate to others. Often times, those suffering from the slings and arrows of misfortune just need to know that someone sees their pain and is willing to listen and be supportive. In my life, I have had times when I had to pay someone to fill this role.
 
Jeni said:
I have mixed feelings on this one ....
i have seen people whom have gone through a lot of pain and despair as situations that happened to them seemed like a punishment or something but it is in those moments in life that define some they can persevere over things or let it eclipse them. They can grow strong pr wither.

basically ever since i was a child the most i heard this phrase " when bad things happen to good people" ........ the people who had something happen to them were not (IMO) good............. and often item that happened was a result of strings of bad choices...
so that phrase always seemed to me as a pity party.
Click to expand...
Except, of course, when they are little children they are horrendously scarred for life.
 
Let's drop the good or bad people, because that can and IS subjective. There is pain and death in our natural world/aniamls so for the human this come about also...for some it will be strong and sometimes early in their life. There is disease we can not control or our genetics and early environment. There are are so many factors in how we see the world as unfair, but I am not so sure of that. I tend to see it as the "the way this life, in this universe/world operates." It is a fact.
 
I think we, fellow members of the human family, are to blame when someone suffers extremely. It's a heavy statement and one I don't make lightly but it's true. There's always something we can do if only we cared enough to try.

I don't know that I can agree we are to blame, but certainly, we should try to help if we can.

I have heard and read many theories of why bad things happen to good people. First I think we need to be careful and not judge..because basically we really do not know the cause of suffering in every case.

One theory is a karmic settling..possibly even from a previous lifetime..not sure I agree or want to believe that one because I don't like the idea of coming back over and over, :rolleyes:

Another theory I kind of like is since we are all ONE .. there is a 'pool' of suffering necessary for various reasons and the stronger among us can help those who can not bear the full burden. That is kind of 'out there' thinking, but interesting imo
 
Sometimes life being unfair is totally random. There is no use asking why bad things happen to good people. And who is defining people as good? There is someone I wish the worst for, but millions of others wish that person the best. Obviously we disagree on who is good and who is very, very bad.

PS I don't hate that person. That would be self-destructive. In fact, I have no strong emotions about that person at all. I will be happy when that person gets their well-deserved comeuppance.

There are lots of reasons I don't believe in karma.
 
I will have to agree with @WheatenLover ... who decides ... definitions matter.
Some folks are seen as good ..............for perhaps a long time by many people only to find out they were NOT ......
same goes they other way around as well some people have very strong opinions about someone they have never met or dealt with ...........based on opinions of others ................ what if they found out those opinions they based their thoughts on were wrong.......

maybe this phrase " when bad things happen to good people" would be more philosophical if it was not used for everything ...
heard a person say this very thing ............... after they found a parking ticket on their window somehow did not know he could not block a fire hydrant.......
 

When bad things happen to good people. (Not the book, a philosophical observation)​


Yeah, I have no idea

Seems some handle the worst of things much better than some handle the least of things

We knew this lady and her man
Had dinner at their place
Didn't know she had a twin sister
There she was, sitting on the couch in a dark room
Deaf, mute, blind
Her sister touched her hand
She lit up
Became so alive
They talked thru tapping each other's hands

Heh, I immediately became ashamed of what I thought my maladies were
 
I believe it's random, too.

Example: I had a somewhat older cousin who was born with severe cerebral palsy. Lived to be nearly 16 years old, but was completely non-functioning. His father worked and supported the family, his mother took care of him til the day he died. They both resisted pressure to 'put him in an institution and forget him.'

As for the book mentioned in thread title- I think I have it around here someplace.

I never for a moment believed GOD caused this to happen. Believing things can be random may be scary, but it makes sense.
 
Gary O' said:
Heh, I immediately became ashamed of what I thought my maladies were
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There was no basis for comparison, is what I disagree with. No comparison, no shame. It's kind of like some old saying that (paraphrasing) "I felt sorry for myself for having no shoes until I saw a man with no feet".

Generally speaking, there is always someone worse off than I am. That does not mean that a situation I am in is shameful to feel badly about. After all, it's happening to me, and I am the one who has to deal with it. In my own life, those situations are important, even when I am around someone who is much worse off. Usually, I can still be loving toward that person, have empathy, pay attention to them, and help them. I cannnot change another person's horrible situation, but I can be there for them. There are circumstances in which that would not be possible, as you described.
 
chic said:
I've heard this is the number one question the clergy faces in their careers and none that I have ever listed to have a satisfying answer to it. How do we answer this one?

I don't want to hear "If you believe you're good, you're arrogant." Or worse, "That's not a question, it's a complaint."

Maybe it's neither but a cry for help because no one is seeing this person's suffering? No one is helping? As someone who has personally experienced the pain of family members and friends who have committed suicide, I know people are often burdened beyond their ability to bear. That's just a fact. But in the cases I have known all could have been saved from this fate if someone, including myself, had a clue how bad the pain was for them and given more. No one really wants to die, they want the pain to stop and see no other option.

I think we, fellow members of the human family, are to blame when someone suffers extremely. It's a heavy statement and one I don't make lightly but it's true. There's always something we can do if only we cared enough to try.

Thoughts and opinions?
Click to expand...
I think when people are in pain and suffering and need love and care that is when people shy away the most. Most of us naturally don't want to put ourselves in a position of having to participate in other people's grief. Often times if we would engage a little more and make them feel like someone cares maybe they'd feel better. Some people don't know how to handle it. Often times what they need most is just someone to listen and care. Some people need way more than that but that's where health care providers come in. It's hard to look grief in the eye when it's on someone else's face. It's not always possible to take care of yourself properly when you are hurting bad enough. It's like being a witness to a crime but not wanting to get involved. People see it but close the door on it. People are often too quick to judge or they tell people to just get over it. If they could just get over it then they wouldn't be suicidal. They wouldn't be depressed. Life can sometimes be too much to bear. Which is why many turn to drugs and alcohol to kill the pain. People need to know that they're not alone. That someone cares whether or not they're ok. And they need to follow through on that care. Not just perform the lip service. They need to feel like someone cares whether or not they put a gun in their mouth.
 
Knight said:
I'll respond to that part.
I disagree the suffering of others is not something fellow members of the human family are to be blamed for. Far to many circumstances of suffering to address. Even trained psychologists get it wrong.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=failu....69i57.22234j0j1&pglt=675&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=U531

I think most will try to help if they recognize someone that is suffering in some way. But trying to find words that comfort or actually help isn't easy.
Click to expand...
You don't have to use words though when someone is broken by life. Just listening and spending time with them and helping to edify in some way can help. Most don't even try and this makes us a sort of accomplice.
 
Alizerine said:
Because we tend to keep our problems to ourselves others might assume that the world is rosier than it is. A question I was once asked during therapy was "Do you think they are all happy?" The answer is no.
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There are degrees of problems and happiness levels in all of us. Agreed? I mean the type of trouble that is so severe and persistent it breaks a person. This doesn't happen to all of us. :cry:
 
And thank you MarciKS for your thoughtful words. I am now dealing with a woman who has burned her bridges but needs help. I try to help, and she takes advantage of me. I drove her to the store on Friday and it took 3 and a half hours. When I got home at five-thirty I sat on my porch trying to relax. I heard lots of sirens and thought they sounded close by. Got a phone call from a neighbor that it was that woman's house on fire. She is okay but is now in a motel. It was a kitchen accident. She is a hoarder and needs professional help. We are both in our eighties.
 
Paco Dennis said:
Let's drop the good or bad people, because that can and IS subjective. There is pain and death in our natural world/aniamls so for the human this come about also...for some it will be strong and sometimes early in their life. There is disease we can not control or our genetics and early environment. There are are so many factors in how we see the world as unfair, but I am not so sure of that. I tend to see it as the "the way this life, in this universe/world operates." It is a fact.
Click to expand...
Referring to a different thread...God's plan? With so much suffering in the world, I'm not sure God thought his plan through very well. No offense meant.
 
We have to accept that unpleasant things happen to all of us. No-one is immune to suffering. I get annoyed when someone asks 'Why me....what have I done to deserve this?', as though bad things are a punishment.
I do think that it's significant that there is an outpouring of sympathy for those featured on the news after some tragedy. It shows that emotional connection we all feel to others.
 

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