When bad things happen to good people. (Not the book, a philosophical observation)

WheatenLover said:
There was no basis for comparison, is what I disagree with. No comparison, no shame. It's kind of like some old saying that (paraphrasing) "I felt sorry for myself for having no shoes until I saw a man with no feet"
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Not my intent
Guess I miss wrote it
Too pooped to attempt to explain, or give it a third thought
 

Lavinia said:
We have to accept that unpleasant things happen to all of us. No-one is immune to suffering. I get annoyed when someone asks 'Why me....what have I done to deserve this?', as though bad things are a punishment.
I do think that it's significant that there is an outpouring of sympathy for those featured on the news after some tragedy. It shows that emotional connection we all feel to others.
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Some people do feel punished. I remember when I was a kid, I thought that my kidney problems were because god thought I was a bad person. Of course, I didn't dwell on that as an adult. And then one day, I read John 9:1-3, in the bible. I was so surprised the issue was addressed there.

When I had cancer, I realized that it was a random occurrence. I had zero risk factors for triple negative breast cancer, and no genes for that either. I was fortunate that I realized it before I went into thinking "why me?". Instead, I thought, why not me? IOW, it was just my turn in the barrel of random events.

Maybe randomness is what causes some good luck, too. Not all of it, of course.

 
It's interesting to learn that so many here have reverted to, "it's a complaint, not a question." I said in my original post it's a cry for help. It's serious and should be listened too.

But I can tell from reading this thread who feels people are worth extending themselves for and I commend you for your humanity. You make the world a better place everyday without realizing it. šŸ˜Š
 
WheatenLover said:
Some people do feel punished. I remember when I was a kid, I thought that my kidney problems were because god thought I was a bad person.
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I used to feel punished too. I was miserable, both emotionally and physically as a kid, worried and full of dread all the time and was trying to be good and believe in god and kept wondering why he was letting me (and the whole family) suffer so much. (I hadn't heard of reincarnation yet, so the possibility that it was because I had been evil in a previous life never entered my mind.) Then when I stopped trying to believe in god, it was such a relief, that I wasn't being punished, that I was just unlucky and unwise in some ways.
 
SeniorBen said:
I think when it comes down to it, we're responsible for our own happiness. If you're relying on someone else for that, you're in for a big letdown.
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In many cases, this is very true, but some have been emotionally, and or mentally, sexually, physically abused for such a long time, their capacity to make effective choices is short circuited. Particularly if the abuse began during their childhood. CPTSD is all but impossible to cure.
 
Shalimar said:
In many cases, this is very true, but some have been emotionally, and or mentally, sexually, physically abused for such a long time, their capacity to make effective choices is short circuited. Particularly if the abuse began during their childhood. CPTSD is all but impossible to cure.
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Blaming the one who is suffering for their misfortune is the saddest reaction of all. Better to be silent than do that. Why compound the pain of someone who is already hurting? :(
 
chic said:
Blaming the one who is suffering for their misfortune is the saddest reaction of all. Better to be silent than do that. Why compound the pain of someone who is already hurting? :(
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One reason might be that, for some people, the situation is so far outside their experience that it doesnā€™t resonate with them on an emotional level. They respond to it with a linear, reductionist, just get over it mantra. Without empathy, it is easier to criticise the victim than to extend compassion. This is particularly common regarding abuse towards women.
 
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Shalimar said:
One reason might be that, for some people, the situation is so far outside their experience that it doesnā€™t resonate with them on an emotional level. They respond to it with a linear, reductionist, just get over it mantra. Without empathy, it is easier to criticise the victim than to extend compassion. This is particularly common regarding abuse towards women.
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Yes, like rape and sexual assault? šŸ˜– I can't say xes here anymore but you know what I mean.
 
@chic You have a truely empathetic ability to understand the depth of which some suffer and usually in silence because no one understands or the problem they think they have can be easily fixed. I have seen people so troubled they were screaming in agony, and they could not be cured. Psych wards are overflowing with panicked and severly depressed people, and we have to include those who are on meds as outpatients who have no one to talk to. It is an epedemic in my mind. John Steward was advocating in Washington about Veterans getting more direct support for their suffering, mentioning that suicides are on the rise because they can not get the care they need. Suicides in general are on the rise also. We all need to be sensitive to what a challenging time it is to be alive with all the pressures and the chaotic society we now live in.
 
Shalimar said:
In many cases, this is very true, but some have been emotionally, and or mentally, sexually, physically abused for such a long time, their capacity to make effective choices is short circuited. Particularly if the abuse began during their childhood. CPTSD is all but impossible to cure.
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I didn't say we're responsible for our suffering; I said we're responsible for our own happiness.

People suffer through no fault of their own. Children are abused by their parents or bullied in school. Women are abused by their husbands. People are attacked and suffer from their injuries. Parents of children who were killed in school shootings suffer. Soldiers suffer from what they've witnessed in battle. The list goes on and on.

But ultimately, we are responsible for our own happiness -- not for our suffering, but for our happiness, simply because no one else can provide that for us. It's just a fact of life. That's not to say that other people don't make us happy. That could happen. But if you rely on other people for your happiness, you're in for a big letdown.

That's just my opinion.
 
Good things and bad things are subjective to individual perspective. Killer hurricanes and tornadoes are the result of a vengeful god. Sickness and death has nothing to do with with judgment or punishment things just turn out the way they do, if you do something foolish the consequences are on you not because god is out to get you.
 
Paco Dennis said:
@chic You have a truely empathetic ability to understand the depth of which some suffer and usually in silence because no one understands or the problem they think they have can be easily fixed. I have seen people so troubled they were screaming in agony, and they could not be cured. Psych wards are overflowing with panicked and severly depressed people, and we have to include those who are on meds as outpatients who have no one to talk to. It is an epedemic in my mind. John Steward was advocating in Washington about Veterans getting more direct support for their suffering, mentioning that suicides are on the rise because they can not get the care they need. Suicides in general are on the rise also. We all need to be sensitive to what a challenging time it is to be alive with all the pressures and the chaotic society we now live in.
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I love this answer and thank you for posting it.

floral hand.jpg
 
SeniorBen said:
I didn't say we're responsible for our suffering; I said we're responsible for our own happiness.

People suffer through no fault of their own. Children are abused by their parents or bullied in school. Women are abused by their husbands. People are attacked and suffer from their injuries. Parents of children who were killed in school shootings suffer. Soldiers suffer from what they've witnessed in battle. The list goes on and on.

But ultimately, we are responsible for our own happiness -- not for our suffering, but for our happiness, simply because no one else can provide that for us. It's just a fact of life. That's not to say that other people don't make us happy. That could happen. But if you rely on other people for your happiness, you're in for a big letdown.

That's just my opinion.
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It amounts to pretty much the same thing when you take it apart. To say we are responsible for our own happiness puts the pressure right back on the shoulders of an already struggling victim. We are responsible for our ATTITUDE during trying times but that too can be fragile. We live in a world where we have little control over anything. It's difficult to find happiness in such a situation. Compromise, maybe, but happiness is something else. And I am talking about people who are broken by catastrophic life changing events with which they cannot cope anymore.
 
Mr. Ed said:
Good things and bad things are subjective to individual perspective. Killer hurricanes and tornadoes are the result of a vengeful god. Sickness and death has nothing to do with with judgment or punishment things just turn out the way they do, if you do something foolish the consequences are on you not because god is out to get you.
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How do you know God isn't out to get you by letting you make a foolish mistake and suffering for it? God punished people good if you've read the bible through natural disasters, like Noah's flood and what about Sodom and Gomorrah? Go back to Adam and Eve, one mistake and gone from the garden. Most have never read Apocryphal works but Adam and Eve were suicidal when forced to leave the garden and were prevented from ending their live by angel intercession sent by God which, in a way was greater cruelty but that's just a matter of opinion. (You won't find this in conventional bibles). The connection between God and human suffering goes back a long way to the very creation.
 
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SeniorBen said:
I didn't say we're responsible for our suffering; I said we're responsible for our own happiness.

People suffer through no fault of their own. Children are abused by their parents or bullied in school. Women are abused by their husbands. People are attacked and suffer from their injuries. Parents of children who were killed in school shootings suffer. Soldiers suffer from what they've witnessed in battle. The list goes on and on.

But ultimately, we are responsible for our own happiness -- not for our suffering, but for our happiness, simply because no one else can provide that for us. It's just a fact of life. That's not to say that other people don't make us happy. That could happen. But if you rely on other people for your happiness, you're in for a big letdown.

That's just my opinion.
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I would say that is true, in general. But not always ...some things happen that are exceeding hard to handle, and sometimes people can't afford therapy (or find a good therapist, but that is another topic). Sometimes therapy doesn't work.

Sometimes people don't have the tools to be happy, or don't know how they can be. I would be devastated if one of my children died. I know that setting up a scholarship fund or whatever, would not help that. I don't know that people can get over that. Whether they can be happy again, I don't know that either.

For me, it depends on my attitude, relationships, community involvement, spirituality, and on my interests and motivations, and on my work being meaningful to me (money doesn't motivate me, making a positive difference in lives does). It also depends on my needs being met, which for me is best described by Maslov's Hierarchy of Needs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

For me, the best example of someone deciding to be happy is my cousin. He is wheelchair-bound with Multiple Sclerosis, his wife died 5 years ago of cancer, his only child has had zero contact with family members since her death, and he can no longer live the very physically active life he had, doing things he loved. He is happy. This doesn't mean he doesn't miss his previous life, but he has accepted and done the best with what he has, and enjoys the support of his community and his close friends.

Fortunately, he is financially secure and can afford the help he needs so he can live at home.

Financial security, in my view, is an element of happiness. If you have to live in a tent on the side of the road, can't afford medical care or food, are addicted to drugs and cannot get treatment, have been traumatized or are actively being abused,but can't afford treatment, etc., I don't see how you can be happy.

I was really lucky when I sought cancer treatment, which would have been denied to me, had I not been able to get on both Medicare and Medicaid. Others have their finances destroyed by cancer care, even when they have insurance.
 
WheatenLover said:
I would say that is true, in general. But not always ...some things happen that are exceeding hard to handle, and sometimes people can't afford therapy (or find a good therapist, but that is another topic). Sometimes therapy doesn't work.
Sometimes people don't have the tools to be happy, or don't know how they can be. I would be devastated if one of my children died. I know that setting up a scholarship fund or whatever, would not help that. I don't know that people can get over that. Whether they can be happy again, I don't know that either. For me, it depends on my attitude, relationships, community involvement, spirituality, and on my interests and motivations, and on my work being meaningful to me (money doesn't motivate me, making a positive difference in lives does). It also depends on my needs being met, (Break) For me, the best example of someone deciding to be happy is my cousin. He is wheelchair-bound with Multiple Sclerosis, his wife died 5 years ago of cancer, his only child has had zero contact with family members since her death, and he can no longer live the very physically active life he had, doing things he loved. He is happy. This doesn't mean he doesn't miss his previous life, but he has accepted and done the best with what he has, and enjoys the support of his community and his close friends.

Fortunately, he is financially secure and can afford the help he needs so he can live at home.

Financial security, in my view, is an element of happiness. If you have to live in a tent on the side of the road, can't afford medical care or food, are addicted to drugs and cannot get treatment, have been traumatized or are actively being abused,but can't afford treatment, etc., I don't see how you can be happy.

I was really lucky when I sought cancer treatment, which would have been denied to me, had I not been able to get on both Medicare and Medicaid. Others have their finances destroyed by cancer care, even when they have insurance.
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I was about to start a new thread entitled "Reminding ourselves how lucky we are", but your post has largely covered the points I was going to raise, and when you say, "sometimes people dont have the tools to be happy" I think I know what you mean too.

The one related point to make when "reminding ourselves how lucky we are" is that when things go wrong in our lives then it could well be the wrong time for anyone to try to remind us how lucky we are, (though of course overall it is undoubtedly true! :) ).
 
grahamg said:
The one related point to make when "reminding ourselves how lucky we are" is that when things go wrong in our lives then it could well be the wrong time for anyone to try to remind us how lucky we are, (though of course overall it is undoubtedly true! :) ).
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Yeah, like when people at funerals say "it was god's will", or "she is in a better place", or "you are lucky you had your relative or friend for X years". I know they don't know what else to say, because nothing will make it better, really. Although I wouldn't mind hearing people say the truth -- like I know how sad you are and that you will miss him/her very much. Or I am here for you (and mean it).

Or when people say I'm so sorry X happened, but it could be worse, the entire alphabet could have happened. But it didn't! Yippee!

Or when people say things like, luckily you can be cured from cancer by taking pills containing horse urine which a doctor in Texas invented.

The most egregious statement anyone has ever said to me was a month after my triplets were born, 27 weeks, 1 lb 6 oz to 2 lbs. My mother-in-law said, "I told my friends who bought gifts for the babies, to not send them in case one or more of the babies dies. That way, they can return the gifts."

I took it like she was wishing bad luck for the babies, like the good thing about one or more dying would be that her friends could get refunds.
 
I have known good people who have bad things happen. And I have known bad people who have had bad things happen. So I don't really think it has anything to do with whether you are good or bad. Good by my opinion may not be good by someone else's opinion.

Sometimes I feel so worried about something going on in my life and think it is the end of the world. Then the next day, I forget about it. Or I see or read about someone having a much worse time than I am. I must add that often times prayer helps me a lot and often in my life it has made a difference.
 

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