Nathan
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Today's right wing thought is that it's better to send your kids to trade schools, rather than risk having them "exposed " to broader points of view in collage.
We need to re-think the concept of college
- Thread starter JimBob1952
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Alligatorob
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Not many, I hope. Trading your kids future for some vague political statement seems completely irrational...
Nathan
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Exactly. Understand that such view is based on emotional rather than rational thought.
senior chef
Senior Member
It's much more than being "exposed" to political statements. It's extreme pressure to conform. However, that certainly depends upon which college the youngster is attending.
SeniorBen
Senior Member
What did you study where you had to "bend to the thinking of extreme leftist professors?"
I took a graduate level political science class as an elective where the professor was far left. I had disagreements with him during some of the classes and he came down pretty hard on me. I ran into him in the hallway the next semester and he actually apologized to me for doing that. Looking back, I recognize that I really had no idea what I was talking about. That was when the Internet was still in its infancy and we still had to read books. And these were graduate level political science students and I was an undergrad computer science student, and it was the first political science class I ever took. I guess I held my own to some extent because I got an "A." There were no tests in the class and our grades were based purely on essays and research papers, which is easy.
So, even though I was a staunch conservative back then and was registered Republican, I didn't feel the need to bend to anybody's thinking. Maybe that's something I should write about in the thread where people are posting things that nobody would guess about them.
SeniorBen
Senior Member
You might do a collage if you're a college art student.
senior chef
Senior Member
Portland State University, Portland Oregon.What did you study where you had to "bend to the thinking of extreme leftist professors?"
I took a graduate level political science class as an elective where the professor was far left. I had disagreements with him during some of the classes and he came down pretty hard on me. I ran into him in the hallway the next semester and he actually apologized to me for doing that. Looking back, I recognize that I really had no idea what I was talking about. That was when the Internet was still in its infancy and we still had to read books. And these were graduate level political science students and I was an undergrad computer science student, and it was the first political science class I ever took. I guess I held my own to some extent because I got an "A." There were no tests in the class and our grades were based purely on essays and research papers, which is easy.
So, even though I was a staunch conservative back then and was registered Republican, I didn't feel the need to bend to anybody's thinking. Maybe that's something I should write about in the thread where people are posting things that nobody would guess about them.
We all have different experiences in college. One college can be VASTLY different than the next.
dseag2
Dallas, TX
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- Dallas, TX
I would agree with you had you not eased into your post with comments about "capitalism, woke thinking and idiotic race and gender hoaxes". What is considered "woke thinking" to you? What is a "race hoax"? What is a "gender hoax"? Would you care to clarify your thoughts on those topics? They have nothing to do with the post created by Dr. Uju Anya. That was an abomination.
SeniorBen
Senior Member
True dat.
Hollow
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- Scotland, UK
I don't rate college at all. I have more bits of paper than I have had jobs in the field I studied for. I am about to embark on another part time course in an effort to try and get a job. All jobs I have had, have been through either the regular applying and interview, or word of mouth friend of a friend. One job I had started off voluntary then became paid. Also, I found that the course leaders had no recent experience in the field of work they were teaching, so what they taught wasn't in line with how the job actually was.
Been There
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College have well funded endowment funds to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. Some well into the billions of dollars. They could lower their tuition fees and not bat an eye. I know of professors that haven't taught a class in years, yet make well over six-figure incomes.
It's almost criminal how much money some of these institutions have in endowment money and how it's dispersed. Even the smallest of colleges hide millions of dollars.
I think your first paragraph pretty much spells it all out.
"In recent years I've developed a strong dislike toward US colleges and universities. There are many reasons for this. They overcharge their students, educate them badly, and stuff them full of stupid ideas about the evils of capitalism and the joys of woke thinking. They fall prey to idiotic race and gender hoaxes and bloat their staffs with overpaid administrators who never go near a classroom."
It's almost criminal how much money some of these institutions have in endowment money and how it's dispersed. Even the smallest of colleges hide millions of dollars.
I think your first paragraph pretty much spells it all out.
"In recent years I've developed a strong dislike toward US colleges and universities. There are many reasons for this. They overcharge their students, educate them badly, and stuff them full of stupid ideas about the evils of capitalism and the joys of woke thinking. They fall prey to idiotic race and gender hoaxes and bloat their staffs with overpaid administrators who never go near a classroom."
Alligatorob
SF VIP
I am sure you are right. I have been to Utah State University, Louisiana State University, and the University of Southern Mississippi. Not known as bastions of liberal thinking. Actually the faculties and students were a pretty good mix at al three, more liberals than the population as a whole in the states, but not dominate. I liked the variety.
The state holidays were an interesting mix. at USU we got July 24 off, the date Brigham Young and his Mormons got to Utah. At LSU we were off on Huey Long's birthday and Mardi Gras. In Mississippi it was Jefferson Davis' birthday, but not the 4th of July. At that time it was still illegal to celebrate on July 4th, the date Vicksburg fell to the Yankees in the Civil war...
JimBob1952
Senior Member
You have no idea of who I am or where I'm coming from, and a business school teaching business shouldn't be anything exceptional.
JimBob1952
Senior Member
Gender hoax = UVA rape scandal, Columbia "mattress girl" hoax, many other examples. Do you read newspapers?
Race hoax = Duke lacrosse, Oberlin, plus numerous other examples of "racist graffiti" turning out to be perpetrated by the "victims" themselves. Look at the current scandal, the Duke volleyball player claiming that BYU students called her racist names while she was playing. Extensive investigation found absolutely no evidence of this happening. But that's her story, and she's sticking to it.
The past two or three generations have pounded a need for college into their kids' heads. "if you don't get a college degree, you'll never amount to anything!" Spending most of my career in the engineering sector, I saw good results from college educations... and bad. So much wasn't the benefit of or the fault of the college. Oh, I retired as part owner of a large Midwest engineering firm... and never had a college degree.
As far as all the "woke" talk, etc., I still live in a Country where we benefit from the ability to express our views. Those views, however, may have consequences. If you express your freedom of speech and tell your boss to stick his head in a toilet, you may not be working there tomorrow. Those factors need weighed. I, however, would not want my children to grow up totally unaware of societal issues they will deal with when in their career field. And, I would not want my children growing up, unaware of history so they can work to not see the effects of discrimination, genocide, etc. repeated.
As to the high cost of college and the need for a college degree... Our oldest daughter is already planning on retiring at age 55. She will have the "factor of 85" with her employer... a major university alumni association. She had one semester of college. Never owed a cent in college loans. The second daughter was VP of a national insurance broker when they discovered she did not have a college degree. They sent her to night school on their dime to get a bachelors degree. She has often talked about getting an MBA, but has been too "busy" to do so. Sits in a corner office as Director of Risk Management for a global logistics firm. Makes well over $200,000/year. Never owed one cent in college loans. The boy will retire, next year, after 20 years in the military. He attained one of the highest enlisted ranks. Will have a great retirement, health insurance, etc. for life. He will be 40 when he retires. Oh! The Army told him he needed college before getting his E-6... told him that again before making E-7, and he did get an associates degree from a correspondence school before making E-8. Highly decorated. Spent most of his career with the 82nd Airborne and the 5th Special Operations Group. When he wasn't jumping out of perfectly good airplanes, has a wall full of American Culinary Society medals from culinary competitions. Never owed a cent in college loans.
I just cannot understand someone seeing their child... encouraging their child... to encumber themselves for life with $100,000 in college debt. Something needs done about the costs of an education, in my opinion, before we tackle what we believe the professors might be saying that does not agree with our own political agenda.
As far as all the "woke" talk, etc., I still live in a Country where we benefit from the ability to express our views. Those views, however, may have consequences. If you express your freedom of speech and tell your boss to stick his head in a toilet, you may not be working there tomorrow. Those factors need weighed. I, however, would not want my children to grow up totally unaware of societal issues they will deal with when in their career field. And, I would not want my children growing up, unaware of history so they can work to not see the effects of discrimination, genocide, etc. repeated.
As to the high cost of college and the need for a college degree... Our oldest daughter is already planning on retiring at age 55. She will have the "factor of 85" with her employer... a major university alumni association. She had one semester of college. Never owed a cent in college loans. The second daughter was VP of a national insurance broker when they discovered she did not have a college degree. They sent her to night school on their dime to get a bachelors degree. She has often talked about getting an MBA, but has been too "busy" to do so. Sits in a corner office as Director of Risk Management for a global logistics firm. Makes well over $200,000/year. Never owed one cent in college loans. The boy will retire, next year, after 20 years in the military. He attained one of the highest enlisted ranks. Will have a great retirement, health insurance, etc. for life. He will be 40 when he retires. Oh! The Army told him he needed college before getting his E-6... told him that again before making E-7, and he did get an associates degree from a correspondence school before making E-8. Highly decorated. Spent most of his career with the 82nd Airborne and the 5th Special Operations Group. When he wasn't jumping out of perfectly good airplanes, has a wall full of American Culinary Society medals from culinary competitions. Never owed a cent in college loans.
I just cannot understand someone seeing their child... encouraging their child... to encumber themselves for life with $100,000 in college debt. Something needs done about the costs of an education, in my opinion, before we tackle what we believe the professors might be saying that does not agree with our own political agenda.
JimBob1952
Senior Member
A comment which shows that you know absolutely nothing about "today's right wing thought."
Today's "right wing thought" is that it's better to send kids who might not be well suited to college to trade schools, rather than risk having them come out with heavy debts and a worthless degree, or no degree and heavy debts.
It's better to encourage diversity of viewpoints than to have a suffocating, all-far-left conformity of thought on campus.
It's better to lower tuition rates than to drive up costs by hiring hundreds upon hundreds of administrators who never go near a classroom.
Here's the president of Temple University on the subject:
The value of the college degree, in my analysis, has reached its peak and is on the wane. There are a host of factors to blame, stretching from cost and affordability to curriculum relevance to rapidly evolving skill needs to advances in automation and technology. But playing the blame game only gets us so far.
https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2022/08/16/higher-ed-must-change-or-die-opinion#at_pco=cfd-1.0
Alligatorob
SF VIP
You make a good point. A college education can be a good option, particularly if the right major is selected, degrees in engineering, many of the sciences, business, and so often put people ahead. And more importantly are the kind of things we need for our economy to continue to grow and do well. On the other hand we need mechanics, barbers and beauticians and other professions that don't require a college education just as badly. Kids should have options and good guidance to get them headed down the best path possible.
I agree, but you are much the exception.
It is harder to get ahead in engineering without the degree and in some fields a PE. Not impossible but hard. When I was a kid my father worked for Sperry Rand, mostly on NASA stuff to get us to the moon. He had both a BS in Civil and an MS in Electrical engineering, and rose in the ranks pretty well. He always said the best engineer on his staff was a guy who never went to college and learned on the job. My father did his best to promote the guy, but had to fight the corporate bureaucracy every step of the way. Had that guy gone to college I suspect he would have been my father's boss rather than the other way round. I think you were at a smaller firm where your abilities were better recognized.
I am also an engineer, and in my career have worked with and known some excellent engineers without engineering degrees and some without college at all. However it is rare to see them rise as well as you did. Sometimes I felt guilty knowing I was only promoted or selected based on my degrees, not necessarily my abilities. The money helped me get over the guilt...
I suspect the same is true in other professions.
JaniceM
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- still lost between two shores..
First, it was not simply a matter of expressing her opinions.. when it was made clear that she was not just FirstNameLastName but ProfessorAtCarnegieMellonUniversity, she had a responsibility to the school she worked at, and it was "almost as if" she represented the school with her remarks.
Second- and not necessarily connected- I agree with what some posters and especially @Aunt Bea said re: the purpose of higher education. Whether it comes from companies or schools, it should be job/career-focused instead of all the 'extras' that waste time and money. I haven't kept up on colleges lately, but the way they were presented as far back as when I was in high school they were little more than high school with a huge cost attached. Making matters worse, the first group of kids I knew considered it 'something to do after high school,' without any actual goals in mind. Vo-tech, distance learning, and career-colleges are a much better option, as the courses focus on the student's career goals.
CarolfromTX
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IMO college these days is waaay overpriced, especially considering the courses and majors available. UT recently added a course on the music of Taylor Swift, NOT aimed at music majors. Theres some university that offers courses in Star Trek. Add to that the fact that they’ve all got offices devoted things like transgender equality and such, and the cost is through the roof. And then you get out with a degree in Womens Studies, $200,000 in debt and zero job prospects. we have lost our minds.
Alligatorob
SF VIP
I get your point.
Carnegie Mellon is a private university, and if they are ok with her doing what she did then that's on them. To me it would reduce my respect for them, and if I had kids or grandkids thinking of going there it would make me think twice. But in the end its Carnegie Mellon as a private institution who has to decide. If she was identified as a professor at some taxpayer supported institution I would think differently.
Not that the line is all that clear I know Carnegie Mellon gets government money, and as a non profit pays no taxes. That bothers me a bit, but I have little control over it.
Tax exemptions and government support for non-profits is a whole other issue, one on which I have strong opinions. But best not litigated in this thread...
CarolfromTX
Senior Member
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What rot. And pretty snobbish, if you ask me. I want my grandkids to get a good job after their schooling is complete. I’m guessing a plumber or a hair dresser makes a lot more money than a Women’s Studies major working as a barista. And many Colleges today don’t offer a “broader view” but a more narrow one. Remember free speech zones? That Implies that anywhere else in NOT a free speech zone.
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I look at college as “job preparation”, but does a high school kid really know what he wants to do with the rest of his life? A lot go to college because it seems like the thing to do and their friends are going. I went and only made it through one year, mostly from lack of attendance and motivation. I joined the Air Force and got steered into electronics which worked for me, so I got an Associates after discharge and made a career out of it. My nephew went to college and took up accounting only to find out he hated it and now does something else.
Paco Dennis
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How can any college operate without money? Where does the money come from? That determines what is taught in the college. $$$$$
Alligatorob
SF VIP
When I was at LSU it was on the steps to the Union Building, we called it free speech alley.
A young David Duke ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke ) was a frequent speaker, at the time he was transitioning from Neo-Nazi to a KKK leader or maybe the other way round, don't really remember. I often listened to him, it was a good education, so did a lot of my friends. Most of us disliked him very much, and after listening were more convinced of his evil. So I think that free speech zone served a useful purpose.
Also today if I hear anyone trying to defend Duke as "not so bad" I have plenty of ammunition to counter with...
At LSU freedom of speech was not restricted anywhere I know of, but the zone gave people a known platform to spew whatever kind of wisdom, or in Duke's case nonsense, they wanted. I often went to listen to whoever was talking.
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Alligatorob
SF VIP
Three major sources of funding, the government, tuition, and private donations. Some private schools have a significant capital accumulated from past donations.
All non-profit schools pay little or no taxes, and yet use government services, so there is at least some subsidy to most.
The schools are like any business, they decide what to teach and offer, usually with the hope it will mean more money.
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