Profanity In Films & Pandering to a Youthful & Black Audience

Ron, actually, you really shouldn't be calling anyone thick when you don't have a clue about how far back certain terms were used and from whom and when and where. There's conflict on the true origins dating back to slavery some say before dating back to Europe as well, but, I'd like to know where you get your facts other than from the limited numbers and types of people with in cultures you've come into contact with that shaped your views.

It's Lon April, not Ron and the Lon is short for my given name Alonzo (a name more common in the Black Community). Now please, let's not make anything out of that.

Secondly, I am 80 years old and have spent good parts of my life living in muti cultural, multi ethnic communities.

I am totally baffled by some on this Forum that have done their best to depict me as one who is critical of Blacks or is it better that I say African Americans. My OP is based on personal relationships and observations from the early 1940's to present day and was not mean't to be a definitive treatise on profanity.
 

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It's Lon April, not Ron and the Lon is short for my given name Alonzo (a name more common in the Black Community). Now please, let's not make anything out of that.

Secondly, I am 80 years old and have spent good parts of my life living in muti cultural, multi ethnic communities.

I am totally baffled by some on this Forum that have done their best to depict me as one who is critical of Blacks or is it better that I say African Americans. My OP is based on personal relationships and observations from the early 1940's to present day and was not mean't to be a definitive treatise on profanity.

You say Lon, I say Ron, skittle, Kadaddle. :D Alls well in the neighborhood.

For the record, I've never used the term, MFker, I never much used any profanity till recent years other than if I was really perturbed or stumped my foot or something. I'm not fond of hearing cursing in movies, but by joe, I love seeing things go boom and stars and spangles and stuff fly through the air and robots and and and. Well, anyway, I get your drift at this point, not big deal, letting it go from my end. Just try not sounding like a bigot if you don't want the lable, I get that you're not, you just sounded that way.

Friends now daddy warbucks, you know because all Rons, I mean Lons I know are rich. :bighug:
 

I had a good black buddy classmate in Jr. Hi. We had a lot of fun together in wood shop.
When he used the term M...er F...er, I said, "How can you say such a thing?" He said that HE and his black friends just thought it was the worst thing
they could say about each other. May I remind you that was back in the 1940s....it was that long ago that this expression was in vogue.

ON a side note; My friend played bass fiddle in the school band. When he grew up he went to NY city and played with many big name entertainers and became a big name himself. His name was Major Holly. He died a few years ago but you can 'Google' him to look up his bio.

Amen!!! The 1940's Junior High is when I too first heard MF used
 
I sort of agree with Lon, but I sure wouldn't put him down for doing the thread. He was only asking a question! From what I've heard in life, some cultures do use certain profanity words more than others. And, again, from what I know, there are some profanity words that some cultures don't even use. Some people use a lot more profanity than others do. Even though a lot of folks don't like it, the "f" bomb has become part of everyday language for many folks. And, some folks only use profanity when they get really upset. Wife and I consider ourselves Christians, but there are times that one of us will say the better/nicer profanity words, such as "damn" or sh*t. On the other hand, my wife's sister is the Christian type that would never use profanity. I've known her for 15 years and have never heard one word of profanity come out of her.

Certain movies have a lot of profanity in them and we absolutely won't watch them. A lot of John Travolta's lines in To Paris With Love contain profanity, but the movie is still full of great action. Melissa McCarthy has used plenty of profanity in her movies, until the one where she played a boy's mother in Saint Vincent.

Profanity is definitely out there, and as far as I'm concerned, none of it makes our society better.
 
I have no objection to profanity in films when it is used in realistic circumstances as such in real life, however I watched a couple of movies depicting WW 2 where the profanities that were used were not even common place in the 40's particularly among Caucasians. Do the screen writers feel they must do this to attract a black or more youthful audience?

I don't know Lon, I haven't watched that many old movies, but the ones I did usually didn't have the curse phrases they use today, as far as I remember. Cursing in the movies or real life doesn't really bother me at all, but it would have bothered my mother greatly. To me it's just words and phrases, many times not even thought of literally by the user. We were not particularly religious in my home growing up, but my parents were strict about not using foul language of any kind at home, they didn't do it and my siblings and I didn't dare.

However, I was born in the early 1950s, in a large city environment. I spent my teens hanging out in the streets with my friends, and although I'm white, my friends, neighbors and acquaintances were of all races, ethnic backgrounds and were from all walks of life.

Language in the city streets like that was used by many people regardless of race, including myself. It would be used many times in regular conversation, it didn't have to be angry or insulting anyone in particular, sometimes just playful or used as an adjective to emphasize a feeling about something. I still use some of that language at times today, although not as often. I've never used it around my elders, children or anyone who may be offended.

If I hear cursing in a violent mafia type movie, to me it's just natural and the way it would be in real life.
 
And I remember a great fuss in the Sydney newspapers when, in a production of Pygmalion (G.B. Shaw), a school girl uttered the line "Not bloody likely". It was the late 1950s. Shocking.

Then there is the WW I verse known as The Australaise which is a soldiers' marching song to the tune of Onward Christian Soldiers.

The Austra——laise [poem by C.J. Dennis]

8 May 2012 by IAC Ā· Leave a Comment
[Editor: This poem by C.J. Dennis was published in in Backblock Ballads and Other Verses (1913) and Backblock Ballads and Later Verses (1918). In Backblock Ballads and Other Verses its title was ā€œA Real Australian Austra—laiseā€. The missing word in this poem, one not spoken in polite society at that time, was ā€œbloodyā€; it was the same (missing) word in all instances, except for the eighth line (the last line in the first stanza), where the word ā€œbastardsā€ would be appropriate.]

The Austra——laise

Fellers of Australier,
Blokes an’ coves an’ coots,
Shift yer —— carcases,
Move yer —— boots.
Gird yer —— loins up,
Get yer —— gun,
Set the —— enermy
An’ watch the —— run.

Chorus:

Get a —— move on,
Have some —— sense.
Learn the —— art of
Self de- —— -fence.

Have some —— brains be-
Neath yer —— lids.
An’ swing a —— sabre
Fer the missus an’ the kids.
Chuck supportin’ —— posts,
An’ strikin’ —— lights,
Support a —— fam’ly an’
Strike fer yer —— rights.

Chorus:

Get a —— move, etc.
Joy is —— fleetin’,
Life is —— short.
Wot’s the use uv wastin’ it
All on —— sport?
Hitch yer —— tip-dray
To a —— star.
Let yer —— watchword be
ā€œAustrali- —— -ar!ā€

Chorus:

Get a —— move, etc.
’Ow’s the —— nation
Goin’ to ixpand
’Lest us —— blokes an’ coves
Lend a —— ’and?
’Eave yer —— apathy
Down a —— chasm;
’Ump yer —— burden with
Enthusi- —— -asm.

Chorus:

Get a —— move, etc.
W’en the —— trouble
Hits yer native land
Take a —— rifle
In yer —— ’and
Keep yer —— upper lip
Stiff as stiff kin be,
An’ speed a —— bullet for
Pos- —— -terity.

Chorus:

Get a —— move, etc.
W’en the —— bugle
Sounds ā€œAd- —— -vanceā€
Don’t be like a flock uv sheep
In a —— trance
Biff the —— foeman
Where it don’t agree.
Spifler- —— -cate him
To Eternity.

Chorus:

Get a —— move, etc.
Fellers of Australier,
Cobbers, chaps an’ mates,
Hear the —— enermy
Kickin’ at the gates!
Blow the —— bugle,
Beat the —— drum,
Upper-cut and out the cow
To kingdom- —— -come!

Chorus:

Get a —— move on,
Have some —— sense.
Learn the —— art of
Self de- —— -fence!


Source:
C.J. Dennis. Backblock Ballads and Later Verses, Angus & Robertson, Sydney, 1918, pages 147-150
Just one of many reasons why Aussie diggers were seen as uncouth ruffians by their British officers.
 
I've been around all kinds of people all my life, and haven't noticed a propensity toward any particular level of profanity, based on race or ethnic origin. That being said, certain strata of people on the sociology-economic continuum do tend towards potty mouth. When I worked at a steel mill potty mouth was just part of the culture, and nothing thought of it.
 
I've worked in and around the construction industry for 40+ years. The use of foul language is NOT race or gender specific. It is sad how today's culture seems not able to put one sentence together without lacing it with profanity. I believe I've told the story of a recent construction foreman leaving for another project visiting with me about noticing I do now use cursewords. Never have. Never will. (And, my job "blesses" me with the opportunity to be cursed at on a fairly regular basis.)

I do believe some of the stereotyping done, connecting profanity with a specific race, has to do with music and movies. Honestly, I do not hear the profanity laced music booming through parking lots and up and down the street except with today's "rap" music. It may be there. It's just what I catch as vehicles pass by. My old-time-country music may talk about broken homes and prison and picking up ladies at the bar, but you don't hear vulgarities.

During the past few years, I've only requested two workers be removed from project sites. Both of those incidents involved caucasian males who would not refrain from shouting profanities in residential neighborhoods. Now, with the large influx of Spanish speaking personnel in this industry, they may well be using profanities but I don't speak Spanish and couldn't tell if they were. :>)
 
Lon's question was not meant to be racial. But immediately QS. AprilT and Applecrucher jumped right on him. This disgust me. Political correctness BS. This being from Senior's. Same thing happened in Ferguson, Mo. people going crazy because of heresay not paying attention to the truth. Policeman in NY and other good people were killed or hurt. Disgusting.

There are hardly any movies made for adults these days (most not all), that are not full of disgusting language. Bad language movies of today are the rule not the exception. You might find some made for TV that are not.

After serving in the USMC in Vietnam and fought with Whites, Blacks, Mexicans and Puerto Ricans, and was there when black-power started, when the blacks started their own kind of identity. The blacks did predominantly use m f er.
 
Lon's question was not meant to be racial. But immediately QS. AprilT and Applecrucher jumped right on him. This disgust me. Political correctness BS. This being from Senior's. Same thing happened in Ferguson, Mo. people going crazy because of heresay not paying attention to the truth. Policeman in NY and other good people were killed or hurt. Disgusting.

There are hardly any movies made for adults these days (most not all), that are not full of disgusting language. Bad language movies of today are the rule not the exception. You might find some made for TV that are not.

After serving in the USMC in Vietnam and fought with Whites, Blacks, Mexicans and Puerto Ricans, and was there when black-power started, when the blacks started their own kind of identity. The blacks did predominantly use m f er.

I like the new name. Of course you don't see it that way and only picked a few people to say are being politically correct and calling it BS. But when someone says the language being used is to appeal to blacks and youth you are making a point are you not to label blacks having a preference for such language or some such branding? No, I guess it means nothing at all when you point a finger and say something like whites and youth this or that. MF is the least of the words used in most films, it is just one of half a dozen, but you seem to be focuses on that one word as well any particular reason? Mostly it's just the FU or Bi_tcH wh_re words that get thrown around and those tend to be multi-cultural, but even MF is a cross over word which has been used by many generations of non-blacks for a variety of reasons.

As far as who uses such language, I guess you've never been in a board room or near the NY stock market around a bunch of stock brockers of other wealthy men on exclusive golf courses. They know how to use MF in various forms that would make your ears bleed. MF.

Some stories are that MF was started out of Slave masters coming by to rape there slaves so the slaves would say here comes that MF again, as far as how some in other cultures are said to have started using it, a MF was someone who often in several places, not just here in the US, would pay to sleep with poor women, even if the woman had a husband, but they didn't care where they laid their loins.

All this pretense about how proper society has been through the years is just pretense. There has been great degradation, only people acting proper on the surface while doing everyone and your mama when no one is looking. Of course this doesn't apply to anyone of the wonderful members of this site, we are all proper perfect people, that have never don't a shameful thing in our lives. I'd swear on a bible to that.

As Jessy would way,
BITCHES!
 
Dame Warrigal, I've often wondered why "bloody" is considered such an awful word. Is there a backstory to the use of the word? Is the word always considered awful, like if you said the murder scene was bloody? Or just when it is used as an expletive? I hope this doesn't offend you -- I just have always wondered.
 
Words are/were considered offensive for one of two reasons.
One is that they referred to sexual acts or sexual organs.
Anglosaxon words tend to be more offensive than others e.g. arse offensive, derriere not at all offensive.

The other reason is that they are considered blasphemous in some way eg Christ on a bike, goddamn etc
The exact reason why bloody was considered offensive is arguable. Here are some possible explanations

Many theories have been put forward for the origin of bloody as a profanity. One theory is that it derives from the phrase by Our Lady, a sacrilegious invocation of the Virgin Mary. The abbreviated form By'r Lady is common in Shakespeare's plays around the turn of the 17th century, and interestingly Jonathan Swift about 100 years
later writes both "it grows by'r Lady cold" and "it was bloody hot walking to-day"[SUP][1][/SUP] suggesting that a transition from one to the other could have been under way. In the middle of the 19th century Anne BrontĆ« writes in The Tenant of Wildfell Hall: "I went to see him once or twice – nay, twice or thrice – or, by'r lady, some four times" (Chapter XXII).

Others regard this explanation as dubious. Eric Partridge, in Words, Words, Words (Methuen, 1933), describes this as "phonetically implausible". Geoffrey Hughes in Swearing: A social history of foul language, oaths and profanity in English (Blackwell, 1991), points out that "by my lady" is not an adjective whereas bloody is, and suggests that the slang use of the term started with bloody drunk meaning "fired up and ready for a fight".
Another theory is that the offensive use of the word arose during the Wars of the Roses when Royalty and nobility or those "of the blood" (meaning blue-blooded descendants of Charlemagne) wrought death and the most bloody destruction on England. Elizabeth I is also supposed to have used it when referring to her elder sister, Mary, due to her persecution of Protestants.

Another thought is that it simply comes from a reference to blood, a view that Eric Partridge prefers. However, this overlooks the considerable strength of social and religious pressure in past centuries to avoid profanity. This resulted in the appearance or minced-oath appropriation of words that in some cases appear to bear little relation to their source: Crikey for "Christ"; Gee for "Jesus"; Heck for "Hell"; Gosh for "God"; dash, dang or darn for "damn". These, too, might be considered implausible etymologies if looked at only from the point of view of phonetics. Given the context in which it is used, as well as the evidence of Swift's writing, the possibility that bloody is also a minced oath (or more precisely, a slang usage of an otherwise legitimate word masquerading as a minced oath) cannot be lightly dismissed.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]

It has also been surmised that bloody is related to the Dutch bloote, "in the adverbial sense of entire, complete, pure, naked, that we have transformed into bloody, in the consequently absurd phrases of bloody good, bloody bad, bloody thief, bloody angry, &c, where it simply implies completely, entirely, purely, very, truly, and has no relation to either blood or murder, except by corruption of the word."[SUP][2][/SUP]

Another possibility is that the word may just be a contraction of "By the Lord's Day". And again, it could simply be borrowed (only slightly changed) from German "blode" meaning "silly, stupid" , pronounced "blerder". The phonetic conversion to "bloody" then makes more sense than in other explanations, because the origin then means that bringing "blood" into the language is a pure happenstance. Many have been puzzled as to why "blood" should be used in the sense implied in expressions such as "bloody screwdriver", "bloody car", or "bloody good".

Whatever the reason, it is referred to as the "great Australian adjective" and is often inserted between syllables in some other word as in "fan-bloody-tastic". It is just an emphasis word.
 
Bloody ( or if you live in the London area 'bleedin') is a word that is in common usage in the UK..it's not really considered a curse word any more...''this bloody/bleedin' can opener won't open the tin'' etc...every day word used by many here as in Oz as well I suspect.

I grew up in one of the most violent cities in Europe in the 50's and 60's ,although I was raised in the posh part of the city I had relatives who lived in the very worst areas who we visited regularly...and yet I rarely ever heard the F or C word. Certainly no-one in my very extended family used it...and my father who was a very violent man in the extreme never used it either, and I don't believe he used it out of the hearing of the family either.

That said...I did hear him say it just once on his many physical attacks on my mother...and shocking as it may sound because although always terrified during the attacks, I was used to it...but when I heard him use the F Bomb for the first and only time once during an attack, I was absolutely horrified , couldn't believe what I'd just heard!!

Another example of a simple word used as as an insult, is the word 'Cow' ..in Scotland if you call a woman a cow you're accusing her of being a tramp, a lady of the night,,,it's probably the most offensive thing you can call a woman..however in England..it's used regularly towards women as a an admonishment for a mild transgression. Daft cow/silly cow...and little if any offence is taken ...
 
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Bloody and bugger, while considered offensive during my childhood, are highly unlikely to offend anyone in Australia or New Zealand today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBx4Ql6Umo

Another word that has lost its power to offend is bastard. It all depends on the accompanying adjective - old bastard, good; lousy bastard, not good

bastard /ˈbɑːstə(r)d/ – general purpose designation for a person or persons, may be either a term of endearment or an expression of hostility or resentment.

It has sometimes been called "the great Australian endearment", but can also be an insult; interpreted according to context. Calling someone "a silly bastard" is affectionate: calling them "a stupid bastard" is a serious insult.

According to a cricketing anecdote, during the "Bodyline" series of 1932–33, the England captain complained to the Australian captain, Bill Woodfull, that an Australian player had called one of his players a bastard. Woodfull supposedly turned to his team and said: "Which one of you bastards called this bastard's bowler a bastard?"

When the English Captain, Douglas Jardine, brushed a fly from his face a voice from the crowd called out, "Jardine, yer pommie bastard, leave our flies alone!"

I learned long ago that words by themselves are not offensive. Its the context that matters. If the speaker intends to offend, then it is offensive. If not, it can be overlooked once we get over our historical hang ups.

I'm always amused when people type "sh*t" or "shite" when everyone knows that they mean shit. My thinking is either choose another word or own it and spell it properly.
 
Yes but here in the Uk DW the word IS *Shite * although more recently Shit has become more common...as in Oh shite/shit I've left my bag on the bus...

On forums people have been using asterisks instead of typing the whole word, more to get around the profanity blocker than to prevent upsetting the more sensitive..
 
Bloody and bugger, while considered offensive during my childhood, are highly unlikely to offend anyone in Australia or New Zealand today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBx4Ql6Umo

Another word that has lost its power to offend is bastard. It all depends on the accompanying adjective - old bastard, good; lousy bastard, not good



I learned long ago that words by themselves are not offensive. Its the context that matters. If the speaker intends to offend, then it is offensive. If not, it can be overlooked once we get over our historical hang ups.

I'm always amused when people type "sh*t" or "shite" when everyone knows that they mean shit. My thinking is either choose another word or own it and spell it properly.

I had a habit of saying ,at times while out dancing, phew I'm buggered after dancing almost an hour . I had to soon bite my tongue and stop saying it as it offended some of the other people attending the dance . Those offended were people who attend church every Sunday.. .
 
Yes but here in the Uk DW the word IS *Shite * although more recently Shit has become more common...as in Oh shite/shit I've left my bag on the bus...

On forums people have been using asterisks instead of typing the whole word, more to get around the profanity blocker than to prevent upsetting the more sensitive..

I say shite instead of shit most of the time. And I also picked up bloody, most often using it as bloody hell.
 

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