Volodymyr Zelenskyy address to congress

Been There said:
At our southern border, supposedly many women and children have also been killed, raped and/or sold, not to mention the drugs that have come into our country by the cartels and have killed 10’s of thousands of our younger people. How many families do you think have been harmed or in some way affected because of this? Many bodies from drownings, torture and murders of women and children have been recovered, yet we hear very little of these atrocities. The world is a very chaotic place at this time. We can’t solve all the world’s problems, so we have to pick and choose who gets our taxpayer’s money. When people look at the money that the U.S. hands out their impression is that it’s coming from the government. That’s completely false. The money is coming from our taxpayers who have worked for that money. Right now because we are broke every dollar we are spending or handing out is borrowed. Is that OK?

Contrary to popular belief, not every American is rich. Please stop and look at the big picture. The U.S. needs help also. We are about to start receiving up to 25,000 illegal immigrants a day starting very soon. Who will help us pay those bills? The simple answer is, no one. We are on our own as usual.
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I was not aware that America is broke. According to stats, you have the largest economy in the world? Also, considering the length of time the border difficulties have been an issue, no one seems to have found an equitable solution. I wish I could see how not helping Ukraine would

facilitate this, but, I suspect there are other forces at play here. No politics rule prohibits me from going further. Also, whatever horrors may be seen around the border issue, tragic though they are, pale in comparison to what is currently occurring in Ukraine. It is disproportionate to say the least.

For me, this is the “big picture.” Surely, the preservation of democracy, the curbing of an aggressive, militaristic, terrorist state is of prime importance. Isolationism in times of crisis has a bleak history. Any student of human behaviour can see the writing on the wall. The Russian Bear

will gobble up much of Europe unless it is stopped. You cannot negotiate with the KGB Tsar Putin, a ruthless sociopath who will sacrifice a hundred thousand of his people without blinking an eye, then demand more from the Russian populace. He lacks compassion, empathy, morality.

Appeasement will only embolden him, he already believes the West will lose resolve if he sufficiently prolongs the war. He believes we are snowflakes, degenerate lotus eaters.
 

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CarolfromTX said:
I said I had mixed emotions. But you are dead wrong about our border. They stopped building the wall in 2020. Our border is not secure, not even close. I see it every day. Live, in the grocery store. No need to get snarky.
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Yes, exactly. They stopped building the wall, so all taxpayer's money is left hanging. No our border is not secure. That was my point.
And yes, you are forgiven for for your own snarkiness.😦
 
Been There said:
He came to beg for more U.S. taxpayer’s money. How does giving him billions of U.S. taxpayer’s money benefit the American people? This country has zero interests in Ukraine. Why do you suppose he came to the U.S. and not another country? Could we be his piggy bank?

U.S. taxpayer’s money is supposed to be used for the betterment of it’s citizens. Of course, as has been the norm, we will give him more billions of dollars and more high end weaponry like drones that have the ability to fire missiles.

What does the U.S. and its citizens get back in return for the billions of taxpayer’s money in return?
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Actually, I can relate to what you are saying, Been There. Here in Canada, our "fearless" leader is flying around the world and dropping $500 million here and another $500 million there. He was quoted last week as saying that Canada has lots of money. However, when I check the Canadian Debt Clock I get a different story from what our Prime Minister is saying. Here is what I find:

The Canadian Taxpayers Federation claims that the clock and Canada’s federal debt are growing by $878 per second, which is $52,701 per minute, $3.1 million per hour, or $75.9 million every single day. The debt clock is currently over $713 billion and Canada’s federal debt continues to grow daily.

Our media is constantly running stories about how the hospitals are full and we are short of doctors and nurses. I guess our "fearless leader" is printing money so he says we have plenty. I think we have plenty of inflation from all this printing of money so he can travel the world and give $500 million here and $500 million there.
 
Shalimar said:
I was not aware that America is broke. According to stats, you have the largest economy in the world? Also, considering the length of time the border difficulties have been an issue, no one seems to have found an equitable solution. I wish I could see how not helping Ukraine would

facilitate this, but, I suspect there are other forces at play here. No politics rule prohibits me from going further. Also, whatever horrors may be seen around the border issue, tragic though they are, pale in comparison to what is currently occurring in Ukraine. It is disproportionate to say the least.

For me, this is the “big picture.” Surely, the preservation of democracy, the curbing of an aggressive, militaristic, terrorist state is of prime importance. Isolationism in times of crisis has a bleak history. Any student of human behaviour can see the writing on the wall. The Russian Bear

will gobble up much of Europe unless it is stopped. You cannot negotiate with the KGB Tsar Putin, a ruthless sociopath who will sacrifice a hundred thousand of his people without blinking an eye, then demand more from the Russian populace. He lacks compassion, empathy, morality.

Appeasement will only embolden him, he already believes the West will lose resolve if he sufficiently prolongs the war. He believes we are snowflakes, degenerate lotus eaters.
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Really? The Russian bear is looking pretty weak, if you ask me. I mean, Ukraine is, God bless ‘em, standing pretty strong. And if Europe didnt depend so much on Russian oil, things might have been different. And if we had a president who… ok, never mind. This whole s**t show is giving China some big, bad ideas.

And don’t confuse the printing press with actual wealth.
 
Aid to Ukraine comes in many forms. I just looked up the Australian Government's Dept of Foreign Affairs and Trade web page and found out what Australia is doing to support Ukraine. There is more to it than money. IMO we cannot just leave the Ukrainians to get on with defending themselves without multilateral support from NATO countries and other nonNATO signatories e.g. Australia and Japan.

Australia’s response to Russia’s invasion​

Prime Minister Albanese’s visit to Kyiv on 3 July sent a clear message that democratic nations like Australia will stand side-by-side with the Ukrainian people in their time of need. Australia is supporting Ukraine though:

  • AUD 475 million in military assistance to deliver important capabilities to the Ukrainian Armed Forces and support its defence.
  • AUD 65 million in humanitarian assistance provided through trusted partners to help meet the urgent needs of the Ukrainian people.
  • Deploying ADF personnel to the United Kingdom to provide training to Ukrainian troops through Operation INTERFLEX.
  • 70,000 tonnes of thermal coal worth AUD 32.6 million to support Ukraine’s energy security.
  • AUD 8.7 million to assist Ukraine’s Border Guard Service to upgrade border management equipment, improve cyber security and enhance border operations in the field.
  • AUD 1 million and radiation detection/protection equipment worth AUD 686,000 through the International Atomic Energy Agency to help ensure the safe and secure operation of nuclear facilities.
  • AUD 200,000 to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to help protect against chemical attacks.
  • Duty free access for Ukrainian imports to Australia, complementing similar trade measures taken by our partners.
  • Prioritising visa applications from Ukrainian nationals; since 23 February Australia has granted over 9,500 visas to Ukrainians.
As part of the coordinated international effort to hold Russia accountable for its actions, Australia has:

  • Imposed targeted financial sanctions and travel bans on 843 individuals and 62 entities to inflict heavy cost on those responsible.
  • Banned the import of Russian oil, petroleum, coal and gas.
  • Banned the export of alumina, bauxite and luxury goods to Russia.
  • Introduced an additional tariff of 35% on imports from Russia and Belarus.
  • Joined partners in prohibiting the import of Russian gold to reduce Russia’s ability to fund its war.
  • Committed AUD 1 million and three staff to support the International Criminal Court investigation into reported Russian war crimes.
  • Intervened at the International Court of Justice in support of Ukraine’s case against Russia.

Bilateral engagement with Russia​

In its international engagement, the Australian Government is sending a clear signal to Russia and its supporters that Russia’s actions will have severe political, economic and reputational consequences. The Australian Government urges all state, territory and local governments and public universities to put on hold existing bilateral cooperation with the Russian and Belarusian governments, including Russian and Belarusian subnational government entities, and to reconsider new engagement.

For more information on the Foreign Arrangements Scheme, visit www.foreignarrangements.gov.au or contact the Foreign Arrangements Taskforce in the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade at foreignarrangements@dfat.gov.au.

Humanitarian situation in Ukraine​

The humanitarian situation in Ukraine is serious and deteriorating. The United Nations estimates that more than fifteen million people inside Ukraine are in urgent need of humanitarian assistance, with millions of Ukrainian refugees needing protection and assistance in neighbouring countries. Most of those fleeing Ukraine are women, girls and boys. Particularly at-risk groups include older persons and persons with disabilities, who may be unable to flee and may struggle to access humanitarian assistance.

To support those affected by the humanitarian situation in Ukraine and surrounding countries, please donate cash, not goods.

Media releases and statements​

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Invasion of Ukraine by Russia | Australian Government Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (dfat.gov.au)
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Been There said:
He came to beg for more U.S. taxpayer’s money. How does giving him billions of U.S. taxpayer’s money benefit the American people? This country has zero interests in Ukraine. Why do you suppose he came to the U.S. and not another country? Could we be his piggy bank?

U.S. taxpayer’s money is supposed to be used for the betterment of it’s citizens. Of course, as has been the norm, we will give him more billions of dollars and more high end weaponry like drones that have the ability to fire missiles.

What does the U.S. and its citizens get back in return for the billions of taxpayer’s money in return?
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I greatly admire Zelensky and the fortitude of him and the Ukrainian soldiers and citizens. And I know it's important to take actions that will discourage Russia and any other country from dismantling democracies, it really bothers me that we are sending them all these billions when right here in the U.S., we have hungry children and families as well as seniors who have to choose between food and their medications. We have far too many who are homeless, some through no fault of their own. They are suffering the affects of poverty. The government claims it would be too expensive to increase spending on social programs to further help them. Yet they keep coming up with all these billions of dollars to send to the Ukraine and they do it fairly quickly. I don't think it's fair to our underprivileged citizens, not to mention the taxpayers.

Believe me, I feel awful about what's happening to the citizens in Ukraine and I wish more would be done to stop Putin...at the source but I was always taught...Take care of home first. BTW..I don't understand why he hasn't already been formally charged and tried for committing war crimes.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
I greatly admire Zelensky and the fortitude of him and the Ukrainian soldiers and citizens. And I know it's important to take actions that will discourage Russia and any other country from dismantling democracies, it really bothers me that we are sending them all these billions when right here in the U.S., we have hungry children and families as well as seniors who have to choose between food and their medications. We have far too many who are homeless, some through no fault of their own. They are suffering the affects of poverty. The government claims it would be too expensive to increase spending on social programs to further help them. Yet they keep coming up with all these billions of dollars to send to the Ukraine and they do it fairly quickly. I don't think it's fair to our underprivileged citizens, not to mention the taxpayers.

Believe me, I feel awful about what's happening to the citizens in Ukraine and I wish more would be done to stop Putin...at the source but I was always taught...Take care of home first. BTW..I don't understand why he hasn't already been formally charged and tried for committing war crimes.
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Military contractors hit paydirt with Putin's invasion of Ukraine, and they have a lot of pull with Congress. As with pretty much everything in the U.S., it's all about money. And there's really no money to be made helping poor people and the homeless; therefore, there's no will.
 
It might be salutary to consider what other countries are contributing.

This is the latest contribution from the Netherlands, population 17,564,014.

Netherlands to provide Ukraine with 2.5 billion euros in aid in 2023. The funds will be used to provide military equipment and humanitarian and diplomatic support, help Ukraine restore its critical infrastructure & ensure Russian war crimes accountability, PM Mark Rutte said.

“As long as Russia continues its war against Ukraine, the Netherlands will provide assistance to Ukraine,” Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said.
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There are actually 40 countries supporting Ukraine, specifically the EU member states, other members of the G7, as well as Australia, South Korea, Turkey, Norway, New Zealand, Switzerland, China, Taiwan and India.

It's not just American taxpayers who are supporting Ukraine. I found this item to be very interesting. From the Kyiv Independent - Ukraine war latest: New graves in Mariupol; Zelensky meets Duda; US to transfer Russian oligarch assets to Ukraine (kyivindependent.com)

US Congress approves transfering seized assets of Russian oligarchs to Ukraine​

Shortly after Zelensky’s trip to Washington, the U.S. Senate on Dec. 22 approved an amendment allowing the transfer of seized assets belonging to Russian oligarchs to the people of Ukraine, CNN reported.

"This amendment would allow the Department of Justice through the Secretary of State to transfer proceeds from seized oligarchs' assets or other sanctioned entities to the people of Ukraine," U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham said. "It will be a godsend to the long-suffering people of Ukraine. It will be a relief to the American taxpayer… It will be a bad day for oligarchs."

The adoption of the amendment is a significant development in the ongoing efforts to hold Russian oligarchs accountable for their role in Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

On Dec. 19, Canada announced it would start seizing approximately $26 million from Granite Capital Holdings Ltd, a firm owned by sanctioned Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich.

Canadian Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland explained that Russian oligarchs have been involved in the "illegal and barbaric invasion of Ukraine," and Canada "will not be a haven for their ill-gotten gains."
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squatting dog said:
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That is a silly question. The US receives aid from friendly countries in a number of ways.

US and Australia send firefighters to help each other fight wildfires because we can. Summer does not occur in the same months in the northern and southern hemispheres.

In every war that US has been involved in since 1945 Australia has been involved at our expense. We host American facilities near Darwin to allow US military tune in to satellites and we buy military assets from America at great expense so that we can continue to fight side by side on land, on sea and in the air.

I very much doubt that the US taxpayers are subsidising the Australians but hopefully, if or when we are attacked by, I don't know, say China (?) the US taxpayers won't say, "Too bad, mates, we have our own problems with road maintenance and refugees so we can't help right now.

If Ukraine falls to Russia then NATO will be involved with troops on the ground and in the air in an all out war. US is a signatory to NATO and has treaty obligations. Australia is not part of NATO and does not have the same obligations but we would be there to support the Europeans and the US. An all out war is a lot more costly than financing Ukraine to defend itself.
 
Warrigal said:
That is a silly question. The US receives aid from friendly countries in a number of ways.

US and Australia send firefighters to help each other fight wildfires because we can. Summer does not occur in the same months in the northern and southern hemispheres.

In every war that US has been involved in since 1945 Australia has been involved at our expense. We host American facilities near Darwin to allow US military tune in to satellites and we buy military assets from America at great expense so that we can continue to fight side by side on land, on sea and in the air.

I very much doubt that the US taxpayers are subsidising the Australians but hopefully, if or when we are attacked by, I don't know, say China (?) the US taxpayers won't say, "Too bad, mates, we have our own problems with road maintenance and refugees so we can't help right now.

If Ukraine falls to Russia then NATO will be involved with troops on the ground and in the air in an all out war. US is a signatory to NATO and has treaty obligations. Australia is not part of NATO and does not have the same obligations but we would be there to support the Europeans and the US. An all out war is a lot more costly than financing Ukraine to defend itself.
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It is still a silly question. US is the largest economy in the world with the highest GDP per capita. Which countries ranked in the top 50 would you expect to subsidise US tax payers?

The 50 largest economies in the world (worlddata.info)

Since @squatting dog seem reluctant to look for answers to you own question, I have done it for you.

This is from Quora

How much foreign aid does the US receive from other countries?

Ever see Warren Buffet or Bill Gates or (to take an Australian example) Rupert Murdoch on the street with a sign asking people if they have a spare billion they can give to the 1%of the 1% down on their luck?

That image is about as absurd as poor countries pitching in to buy one of the richest countries a coffee.

Most foreign aid is a soft power tool used to both help and influence the countries involved. So if you have to consider it enlightened self interest.

Education and healthcare impacts not just the country involved but all of this ever more interconnected world. As should be apparent after this past year.

Helping a countries trade and industry helps its stability. Helping election monitoring helps increase the chances of stable government. Helping countries purchases and engage in world trade makes everyone richer. Intelligent , targeted aid makes a country more stable, may reduce people smuggling, drug trafficking, and so much else.

And on and on and on. Everyone affects everyone else today, it’s important to consider the help given to LDC’s (least developed countries) and the like as bit of intelligent long term investment.
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And this


Why does the US send so much foreign aid abroad?

The US actually sends very little aid abroad compared to other countries. And what foreign aid the US does send abroad is usually “tied” so that the recipient country is required to use it to purchase from American suppliers which means that the aid recipients get less ‘bang for the buck’.
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Foreign aid is not charity. The giver always wants something or some benefit in return
 
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No. It is not.
Sometimes foreign countries have given aid in response to specific American needs. Katrina saw several countries, including Russia, donate material aid.

The Masai tribe in Kenya donated 14 cows. You might laugh, but it was important and expensive for them.
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I've been to Kenya. The Masai are not wealthy people but they are proud. The gift should not be scorned. It was a good will gesture to the American people who had been badly affected by the hurricane.

Most foreign aid is not entirely altruistic. It buys influence and a lot of it is actually in the form of loans that have to be paid back.

Australia is spending a lot in the Pacific right now to counter the influence of China. Would you rather we sent it to US to appease the American taxpayers?
 
You keep missing the point. It's not always about cash.
Aid can be in kind and it can also come in the form of blood.

So far Only Ukraine has been shedding blood for their freedom but if they lose then the blood of men and women from other countries will also be shed. We are not too far from a serious multinational war now. If it is not averted the cost in human lives and treasure will be horrendous. No nation will be far enough away to be out of reach using modern missiles.

As for your assumption that America receives no cash aid from any other country, I repeat again that that is a silly proposition. The wealthiest county on this planet does not need cash. It needs allies and friends. Foreign aid is designed just for that purpose. For that reason it is given selectively in the interests of the giver nation.

On another note - if you think 14 cows is worthy of scorn, what do you think about women and children selling their hair to buy tactical helmets for soldiers defending Ukraine.



Defense of Ukraine on Twitter: "Nine-year-old Oksana cut off and sold her braid to help the #UAarmy The 5,300 hryvnias she received were used to buy tactical helmets for her compatriots fighting near Bakhmut. 📸 @suspilne_news https://t.co/mgoqYXb1F8" / Twitter
 
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Most (more than half) of the aid we've sent to Ukraine has been in the form of arms, which benefits our military contractors immensely! Just look at the TRILLIONS spent on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, for which we received no benefit whatsoever and made the world far more dangerous. Helping Ukraine will make the world safer by ostracizing Russia and creating an ally in Ukraine, which may have trade benefits in the future. After all... they have a lot of natural resources, which is probably the main reason Putin wants it.
 
SeniorBen said:
Most (more than half) of the aid we've sent to Ukraine has been in the form of arms, which benefits our military contractors immensely! Just look at the TRILLIONS spent on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, for which we received no benefit whatsoever and made the world far more dangerous. Helping Ukraine will make the world safer by ostracizing Russia and creating an ally in Ukraine, which may have trade benefits in the future. After all... they have a lot of natural resources, which is probably the main reason Putin wants it.
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Well, the arms guys got to see if their stuff actually works or not. Better Ukraine tests its efficacy than American military.
 

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