Perspective on US and homicide

Amelia B

Amelia B

Member
Location
Southeast Wisconsin
With all the news lately, I was beginning to think that the US had the highest murder rates but then I saw this chart and was greatly relieved. Not that we don’t have a long, long way to go, but I think this is a helpful thing to look at anyway.
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fuzzybuddy said:
Well, the US beat out a host of Third World nations, who were in the midst of revolutions, drug wars, and civil unrest. YEAH!!!
That means only 316 per day, are shot in murders assaults, suicides , unintentional shootings, etc., etc. That's only 115,340 a year. Do we get a trophy?
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No trophy. That’s why I said ‘not that we don’t have a long long way to go’ in my post. But we don’t need to self flagellate as much as we do.
 
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The thing with murder rates is that there is a huge disparity between cities. If we were to take St. Louis, Missouri with its 65 rating in 2019, it puts it up there above Venezuela and Honduras as a whole. Which is pretty much right at the bottom of the chart in the OP.

Comparing that with New York City, which I think is around 3 per 100,000. 5 to 5.5 being the national US average. London, UK being 1.7 in 2019 And dropping since.
 
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Amelia B said:
With all the news lately, I was beginning to think that the US had the highest murder rates but then I saw this chart and was greatly relieved. Not that we don’t have a long, long way to go, but I think this is a helpful thing to look at anyway.
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You are right of course, the US is still a relatively safe place for most people. However, if you look at your chart our murder rate is higher than most westernized affluent democracies. Still too high.
MrPants said:
US Virgin Islands was kind of surprising to me. It's way up there
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I think the US Virgin Islands crime rate can be very interestingly compared to the British Virgin Islands. The British Virgin Islands have a very similar demographic, there has been lots of movement back and forth many people have relatives on both sides. However the BVI has much lower crime rates, for example murder rates about 5 times lower.

Does not speak well of US vs BVI social and legal conditions...
 
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Alligatorob said:
You are right of course, the US is still a relatively safe place for most people. However, if you look at your chart our murder rate is higher than most westernized affluent democracies. Still too high.

I think the US Virgin Islands crime rate can be very interesting compared to the British Virgin Islands. The British Virgin Islands have a very similar demographic, there has been lots of movement back and forth many people have relatives on both sides. However the BVI has much lower crime rates, for example murder rates about 5 times lower.

Does not speak well of US vs BVI social and legal conditions...
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Still way too high, yes, I agree. That’s why I said we have a long long way to go in my original post.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
Perhaps if there was more self flagellation concerning this specific topic, changes might actually happen.

I understand this is a US based forum so my opinions aren’t much appreciated but if together as a country, you wanted change, doesn’t it need to start with self first ?
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The people who would need to do the self flagellation would be the least likely to do so. I think the sensitive nice people like everyone on this forum tend to blame ourselves for things that are not our fault when the actual perpetrators congratulate themselves on acting like reprobates. So we don’t need to sell flagellate, we need to educate.
 
Amelia B said:
The people who would need to do the self flagellation would be the least likely to do so. I think the sensitive nice people like everyone on this forum tend to blame ourselves for things that are not our fault when the actual perpetrators congratulate themselves on acting like reprobates. So we don’t need to sell flagellate, we need to educate.
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Yes I can see your point of view. I wasn’t suggesting that you should all kick yourselves for the harm that others do.

I probably should have reworded that better.
My thoughts are that if nobody thinks the country gun laws need changing then this type of thing will continue to increase yearly.

Of course it’s the crazy people only who commit these crimes or those who have anger issues. Unfortunately with such liberal gun laws, any of these types of people with anger issues can pick one up and use it.

Only then does the rest of the country realize that it’s one of ‘those’ people and not one of their own, but unfortunately ,it’s always too late.

Perhaps if the problem was viewed holistically, instead of individually, maybe this wouldn’t happen as often.

Anyway this topic is far too political for my personal comfort. It wasn’t meant to be a personal criticism to anyone on the forum.
 
Heh, statistics

I can't believe Honduras and El Salvador are so low on the chart

Guess 'reported' murders may be a factor
Then, some killings might not be considered murders

Mexico should be a bit higher up too

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Oppsy......I read it upside down (didn't note the blue and red lines)
Makes much more sense with the @Magna-Carta correction
 
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I think it's fair to say we have to be careful when taking one type of data in isolation to everything else. Homicide rates for per 100,000 of population only shows one part of the picture. How might that correlate to incarceration rates for homicide, and incarnation rates for all crimes as a whole? And then how might that compare to other countries. Why does any nation need to lock up a proportion of its people, and what might that say about its society or its judiciary system? I don’t know what the answes to that would be, I’m just throwing it out there.

According to the “World Prison Brief”, data hosted by the Institute For "Crime & Justice Policy Research", at the University of London. The US has an incarceration rate of 505 per 100,000 of population. The average from 223 countries being 137. Europe (excluding Russia) being 115. The UK being 135.

Why is the incarceration rate so high in the US. Is it a reflection of its society, or is the US better at finding the perpetrators on crime compared to the rest of the world?

I often here it said that it’s not guns that kill, its people that kill. That would seem to have some merit to it, separate from peoples feeling of gun laws, or lack of. But is it then fair to say that it’s not guns that kill, it’s a nation’s society that kills, guns might just make it easier, perhaps. Not that I want to turn this into a gun debate, I don’t. But surly to remove all guns without a change in society, wouldn’t that just mean that knife crime will increase.

So going back to the original post of homicide rates, is it partly reflected by the high prison rate, and that of US society as a whole? What would actually need to change to bring down US homicide rates?
 
As we Earth monkeys continue with global Wall Street driven runaway wealth seeking, it will accelerate overpopulating our fragile blue water planet, destroy environments, with homicide rates continuing to rise as well as chaos driving wars, pandemics, starvation and general moral and ethical decay.
 
Gary O' said:
Heh, statistics

I can't believe Honduras and El Salvador are so low on the chart

Guess 'reported' murders may be a factor
Then, some killings might not be considered murders

Mexico should be a bit higher up too
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What do you mean but "so low on the chart"? They are the lowest on the chart, but the highest numerically.
 
ElCastor said:
Like it or not, crime, particularly of a violent nature, as well as prosperity, is a product and reflection of intelligence. Thus a night time stroll in a suburb of Silicon Valley is likely to be safer than one in Chicago or Detroit.
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El C, not intelligence. "Mental state" would work, but a "violent nature" has very little to do with ones level of intelligence. Some of America's most prolific serial killers are highly intelligent men (or were, if they've been put to death already).

When the justice system even bothers to assess the mental state of someone who has committed a murder, they often find that the murderer has a mental disorder or is deeply emotionally disturbed.
 
Magna-Carta said:
Why is the incarceration rate so high in the US. Is it a reflection of its society, or is the US better at finding the perpetrators on crime compared to the rest of the world?
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From what I know it seems to be too long sentences for too many people. Mandatory minimum sentences is a part of the problem. Sat next to a retired sheriff on a plane once. He said that he believed 75 to 80% of people in jail didn't belong there, but most of the other 20 to 25% should probably never get out. I think that makes some sense.

I doubt we are any better at finding perpetrators...
 
Alligatorob said:
From what I know it seems to be too long sentences for too many people. Mandatory minimum sentences is a part of the problem. Sat next to a retired sheriff on a plane once. He said that he believed 75 to 80% of people in jail didn't belong there, but most of the other 20 to 25% should probably never get out. I think that makes some sense.

I doubt we are any better at finding perpetrators...
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Ok, good point. I think I see what you are saying, and how that might skew the data.
 
Since you people don’t know me, I will tell everyone here that my brother is in prison for life because he killed 3 men. That’s when we moved and not just a town or 2 away. We moved across country. My dad even thought about changing our last name, but mom fought him on that. I see him twice a year. At Christmas and on his birthday. That’s all I am allowed. (Prison rule) He’s at the ADX prison in Florence, Colorado and will never be released. In case you don’t know what ADX is, it’s the only Supermax prison in the U.S. He was in another prison, but had to be moved for reasons I will not discuss. There are only about 340 prisoners in ADX. I really don’t like going there. Those guys give me the creeps, including the guards. Everyone with a uniform on us carrying a rifle.

He was originally given the death penalty, but the appeals court sent the sentence back to the original court for resentencing because the Judge did not give the jury the correct instructions before allowing them to decide his fate. I don’t know much about all that went on because my mom and dad kept it all very secretive and wouldn’t allow us kids to attend any of the court sessions, except for the 1 that I had to testify. I know my parents spent about a million dollars for his defense and his appeals.

After he went away, we put the house up for sale and we left town a week later without saying goodby to anyone, even before our house was sold. We just packed some clothes like we were going on vacation and left. My parents were afraid that the kids in school would make our lives miserable, but instead, they were very nice to us and so were the teachers. When we got to our new city or area where we were going to live, we stayed in a hotel for almost a month before we were able to move into the house mom and dad picked out. My dad then went into depression for a few months, but he soon came around to being our dad again. We never spoke about our brother, unless something really bad happened and then it was a very short conversation. I hope none of you are or ever will experience this type of situation.
 
Born_To_Lose said:
Since you people don’t know me, I will tell everyone here that my brother is in prison for life because he killed 3 men. That’s when we moved and not just a town or 2 away. We moved across country. My dad even thought about changing our last name, but mom fought him on that. I see him twice a year. At Christmas and on his birthday. That’s all I am allowed. (Prison rule) He’s at the ADX prison in Florence, Colorado and will never be released. In case you don’t know what ADX is, it’s the only Supermax prison in the U.S. He was in another prison, but had to be moved for reasons I will not discuss. There are only about 340 prisoners in ADX. I really don’t like going there. Those guys give me the creeps, including the guards. Everyone with a uniform on us carrying a rifle.

He was originally given the death penalty, but the appeals court sent the sentence back to the original court for resentencing because the Judge did not give the jury the correct instructions before allowing them to decide his fate. I don’t know much about all that went on because my mom and dad kept it all very secretive and wouldn’t allow us kids to attend any of the court sessions, except for the 1 that I had to testify. I know my parents spent about a million dollars for his defense and his appeals.

After he went away, we put the house up for sale and we left town a week later without saying goodby to anyone, even before our house was sold. We just packed some clothes like we were going on vacation and left. My parents were afraid that the kids in school would make our lives miserable, but instead, they were very nice to us and so were the teachers. When we got to our new city or area where we were going to live, we stayed in a hotel for almost a month before we were able to move into the house mom and dad picked out. My dad then went into depression for a few months, but he soon came around to being our dad again. We never spoke about our brother, unless something really bad happened and then it was a very short conversation. I hope none of you are or ever will experience this type of situation.
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Man! They say some families have "black sheep." Your brother is a prime example of the "blacker then night" variety.
 

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