You make a good point here. Last Sunday on 60 Minutes, they had a segment on the Mormons abusing the donations of their congregation. Here is a link to that show.
People are Leaving their Churches in Droves Today
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You make a good point here. Last Sunday on 60 Minutes, they had a segment on the Mormons abusing the donations of their congregation. Here is a link to that show.
Well said. Thank you.
Michael Z
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I have read through a bunch of the responses and it is a bit sad, but unfortunately, I know these kind of bad experiences occur. I was raised in a church where I saw blatant hypocrisy as well. Those childhood experiences, coupled with my wanting to escape any reminder of eternal judgement in hell, led me to completely divorce myself from church for a time. And in this time, I lived a wild life filled with drunkeness and womanizing. But the prayers of some close to me got through and my hard heart was finally softened and I accepted Christ to be my Lord, which is something completely different than church attendance or membership. And as a believer, I wanted to meet with other believers, so church was a natural thing. I have been part of a number of churches, but the one I have been in for many years now is a very simple church. No fancy music - just hymns. No fancy programs, just simple outreaches like VBS and Awanna. An old simple building. But we do have cookies and coffee after church. I believe a small simple church is nice for getting to know people. And rather than fancy programs, invite folks over for supper at your home. And there are home churches that can be good options - my daughter's family attends one.
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I agree. Religions are man-made.
Interesting question. Why did you ask that?
I think they would. Of course we don't have any photographs, but most Christians today know what the typical middle-eastern Jewish man looks like and imagine Jesus looking like one of them. I doubt that he was horribly ugly, but even if he was we know that he was extremely charismatic due to his huge and sudden popularity as well as his message.
Churches these days tend to have paintings of Jesus that are more like Akiane Kramarik's famous portrait than the popular blondish Jesus of the past.
Some churches have paintings of Jesus as a black man which was also possible in that region at the time.
JustDave
Well-known Member
We would talk about Islam and the Tao, if they were here, but they are not, so we don't spend much time on them. They are not quoting scripture and dogma, testifying to the forum, or demonstrating their varying religious idiosyncrasies here. If those religions are losing membership, would anyone here know why, if in fact they are?
Jamala
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In churches everywhere or in books and paintings, Jesus is portrayed as a
blond haired, blue eyed person. In fact, there are some people who refuse
to believe he looked like this:
which has always amazed me, considering he was Jewish in every way and
looked like one.
blond haired, blue eyed person. In fact, there are some people who refuse
to believe he looked like this:
which has always amazed me, considering he was Jewish in every way and
looked like one.
All those "gods" across cultures and time are one of the reasons I'm a believer. Why has mankind always looked so hard for a creator if there isn't one?
{As I believe it:] In time as the caveman evolved into modern man, God revealed himself to the chosen people. It was their race and religion that began to teach that there was only one true God and it was through the chosen Jewish religion we learned the Ten Commandments and began to learn how to treat each other.
Eventually, from the Jewish race, came Jesus who taught us the refinements of the Law. For example, that we not only weren't supposed to kill other people we weren't supposed to hate them either. We not only weren't supposed to commit adultery, we weren't supposed to lust after other people either. He taught us that God gave us the commandments out of love for us and that love was the ultimate great commandment and that God was love.
From that point on the other man-made religions like the Mayan's you speak of should have fallen away as they learned Christ's message through missionaries. At least that was the plan as I understand it.
JustDave
Well-known Member
Maybe because there isn't one. This is as likely as any other reason that explains why people are still looking.
I wouldn't say, "in churches everywhere." I think you'd be surprised at what goes on in a lot of progressive American churches.
https://lyonsvillechurch.org/2015/01/13/january-11-sermon/
Mr. Ed
Be what you is not what you what you ain’t
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I harbor negative feelings about church & religion as a preacher’s kid forced to attend for fatherly support. I’ve always had suspicions about church & religion, no matter how much I tried there is doubt regarding salvation.
Recently I began to see church and religion with-heightened scrutiny and disbelief.
Faith based religion require a person to believe without tangible proof of existence. No proof of sin or salvation but somehow made present for continued obligation and service.
When I stopped believing in Christianity the next step was to disregard the Bible as as the source of Christianity. I have never seen the supernatural, nor do I believe the Bible or Christianity by faith or otherwise.
Recently I began to see church and religion with-heightened scrutiny and disbelief.
Faith based religion require a person to believe without tangible proof of existence. No proof of sin or salvation but somehow made present for continued obligation and service.
When I stopped believing in Christianity the next step was to disregard the Bible as as the source of Christianity. I have never seen the supernatural, nor do I believe the Bible or Christianity by faith or otherwise.
Jamala
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You're right...it seems not "everywhere" . However progressive should be careful not to deviate too much from a realistic portrayal.
Good question. Statistically, those religions are in smaller numbers than Christianity. And again, most of them were born into those religions, and indoctrinated in them. They may even be afraid to leave them if they wanted to.
Timewise 60+
Senior Member
I have always felt the presence of Christ in my life. As a child I did attend Sunday school in our local community church but as an adult I do not attend church. My parents also did not go to church but were openly Christians. Yet I have always prayed to Christ on a regular basis.
When raising our three kids we openly acknowledged the existence of Christ, but we did not openly pray or say grace at meals. When asked, I told my kids that I prayed frequently as does my wife, but it was private for us individually. Now our kids are adults with kids of their own. Two of the three are baptized Baptists and openly Christian and active in their churches. I am very proud of them both as their spouses and kids are also very active Christians. My youngest son is openly Christian, but like me, he is not active in church.
To me church is optional for Christians.
When raising our three kids we openly acknowledged the existence of Christ, but we did not openly pray or say grace at meals. When asked, I told my kids that I prayed frequently as does my wife, but it was private for us individually. Now our kids are adults with kids of their own. Two of the three are baptized Baptists and openly Christian and active in their churches. I am very proud of them both as their spouses and kids are also very active Christians. My youngest son is openly Christian, but like me, he is not active in church.
To me church is optional for Christians.
I believe when early man (documented by archaeologists) began to figure out how to survive in their world, and using their God-given brains and six senses, they found that rubbing sticks together created fire to give them warmth, and made spears to get food. They discovered the cycles of life in the sun and moon, and women’s monthly menstruation, and began to make plans on migrating to better regions for survival. All along, man may have questioned the sources of their reality, and figured out that some unknown factor had created their world. So they began to worship maybe the sun, or the moon, or life itself. From there, religion was born. All man-made.
And when man began to document on cave walls and parchment paper their beliefs, the most prolific writers, the tribes of Abraham, embellished the stories, and the stories were passed on through the millenniums. Jews are very smart. They wrote both the Old and the New Testaments. The study of religion and Christianity is fascinating, and if you study that more then the actual Bible, you will see how flawed religion is.
That may explain why they haven't found one, but my question is why they started looking in the first place. I didn't go shopping for a cellphone in 1950. Why did cavemen worship the moon? Why do we want to worship?
Why not? Maybe man has a desire to want to praise and thank an entity that gave him life, and all that life has given to him. Man just likes to be grateful. It’s a good virtue to have, like kindness.
CarolfromTX
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What exactly do you mean that our first 4 presidents were nonbelievers? They sure weren’t atheists.
JustDave
Well-known Member
Man has a desire to know things. If something cannot be known, either because we lack understanding or because there is no answer, the desire to fill in the gap is still there, and many humans will fill in the gap with anything. That's an observable phenomenon and we can witness it in everyday conversations.
But why do we do this?
I can only speculate as to why, but I think the gap is overpoweringly bothersome to many of our egos. And primitive men had lots of gaps, and not many tools to understand them with. Their only recourse was to invent answers, and one universal answer to fit all situations was even better, one powerful entity that we need not question or understand.
OK, but why worship?
If we invent an entity that explains everything, even if it doesn't tell us why, it must be pretty damn powerful. If we worship it, just maybe it will throw us a bone, and if we erect monuments to it, maybe it will protect us from our fears and enemies. Maybe it will even lead our favorite team to the Superbowl. Best of all, maybe it will protect us from man's most common and unalterable outcome of death and oblivion, but only if we worship it in spite any lack of evidence for it. And you actually need evidence, you can always invent some, like finding a likeness of Jesus on the bottom of a pizza crust, or a tornado that demonstrates Gods hatred of homosexuals. You know he wouldn't have put that tornado there for no reason.
They were Deists. They didn’t believe in the Jesus story. They only believed in a God, a Creator, that did not intervene in His creation, but was seen in nature and science.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-Deism-and-Christianity-1272214
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officerripley
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Also:
"If we really want to grasp truth, the hard facts, we have to do the math. That’s where the reality is. Everything else is wish fulfillment.
"Intelligence and compassion are the heart of what it means to be human. Help others where you can. This is clear enough. But a Creator may well want us to open our eyes, as well. If there is a judgment, God may not be particularly interested in how many hymns we sang or what prayers we memorized. I suspect He may instead look at us and say, 'I gave you a brain, and you never used it. I gave you the stars, and you never looked.'"
~~from Firebird by Jack McDevitt
I love it. Great quote.
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