LGBTQ books in public school libraries

I believe the flack about LGBTQ books is backlash about homosexuality is now acceptable. And it is the old fear that such books will transform a perfectly good Christian into "one of them". The issue of trans. is more of a political hot "button" for stirring up the flock.
In truth, when I was in school, the last place I wanted to be was the school library. I doubt much has changed. And I doubt the "offensive" books will ever leave the shelf.
BTW : "LGBTQ"- we are going to start to run out of letters- we have to come up with a name, which encompasses all.
 
I think it's the trans that people are really going nuts over. The other ones society is basically accepting of. Trans in sports, bathrooms, public locker rooms, etc. Trans who didn't get the surgery. Trans bathing suits with tucks. These are the hot button stuff. Gotta lop that off.
 

fuzzybuddy said:
I believe the flack about LGBTQ books is backlash about homosexuality is now acceptable. And it is the old fear that such books will transform a perfectly good Christian into "one of them". The issue of trans. is more of a political hot "button" for stirring up the flock.
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...it is not only books on LGBTQ..one only has to look at Florida and Texas to realize the wanna be dictators trying to purge the country of what they perceive as unacceptable.
 
I hope the parents don't want to put their children in a school that is religion based. They might have a small problem the bible.


God, without mixing words, judges, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination" (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13). Paul includes lesbianism in the condemnation: "For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature" (Romans 1:26). Later in I Corinthians 6:9, to make our understanding absolutely clear, he writes that neither "homosexuals, nor sodomites" will inherit the Kingdom of God (cf. Jude 7).

In each of the three instances in the Old Testament where homosexuality is shown in society, destruction immediately follows. The city of Sodom gave its name to this vile practice and has served as the preeminent example of God's displeasure (Genesis 18:20-21; 19:1-29). Two lesser-known cases also show that a rise in homosexuality signals a quick decline and fall.

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/424/Lesbianism.htm

Destruction follows by a merciful being ?
 
Knight said:
I hope the parents don't want to put their children in a school that is religion based. They might have a small problem the bible.


God, without mixing words, judges, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination" (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13). Paul includes lesbianism in the condemnation: "For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature" (Romans 1:26). Later in I Corinthians 6:9, to make our understanding absolutely clear, he writes that neither "homosexuals, nor sodomites" will inherit the Kingdom of God (cf. Jude 7).

In each of the three instances in the Old Testament where homosexuality is shown in society, destruction immediately follows. The city of Sodom gave its name to this vile practice and has served as the preeminent example of God's displeasure (Genesis 18:20-21; 19:1-29). Two lesser-known cases also show that a rise in homosexuality signals a quick decline and fall.

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/424/Lesbianism.htm

Destruction follows by a merciful being ?
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In my opinion, prohibition against such s**ual practices occurs because to survive as a tribe or a nation in those times required fighting men. Any form of sex other than male/female, or any form of contraception, meant less babies born and therefore less warriors.
 
Muskrat said:
That 3 percent figure is wrong. That is ignoring the folks who were not white. Look at your statistics again by year. Also…there is absolutely no proof that one race is smarter than another. There is proof that IQ tests are not infallible. There have been many brilliant persons of every color and gender. Sometimes opportunity has more to do with success than intelligence.
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Not sure who your post is directed at, but whatever, here is one of many studies aimed at world IQ.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country

An interesting story. Back in the day with the introduction of one of the first IQ tests, I believe in this case the Stanford Binet, a school teacher newly posted to the British embassy in Korea decided to use an IQ test to to establish the superiority of the children of the Brit diplomats versus the sons and daughters of the Korean workers in the embassy, who also attended the embassy school. Oops! Big surprise.

Today …
”Asian immigrants transforming Silicon Valley”
https://asamnews.com/2019/04/07/asian-immigrants-transforming-silicon-valley/
And Asians comprise more than a third of the population of Redmond Washington, home base of Microsoft.

Then there is the dominance of Ashkenazi Jews in the Nobel prize arena. A dominance all out of proportion to their numbers. Ashkenazi intelligence (Einstein being one) is the highest in the world, an intelligence that ironically is believed to be a product of Eastern European discrimination. BTW along with that genetic gift, come several genetic deficits, Tay Sachs, Gaucher Disease, Cystic Fibrosis, and others. I have always found it curious that while those genetic disorders are clearly genetic and inheritable, some of us are conveniently convinced that intelligence can‘t possibly be inherited.
 
And you don’t think a push for a academic performance has something to do with it? Just for fun…watch the documentary “Try Harder”. It is very watchable…and you all might like it.
 
StarSong said:
My son's class studied family trees in 4th grade. As a family project, each child was to create a personal family tree as best they could. Parents and grandparents were expected to got into the act of tracing back as far as possible. It was a cool, interesting project for our family.

The day the trees were due, each child stood before the class to briefly explain their trees. One of my son's friends showed a chart ending abruptly with all his great-great grandparents. He told the class that was all his family knew, because before that they were slaves who were bought and sold at will by their owners. The family had no information when his ancestors were taken from Africa, or even where in Africa they were taken from.

The worst part, my son said, that when Troy told his story, he did so with head hung low in shame and tears spilling down his cheeks. The teacher tried to intervene to soothe this tender 9 year old, but he said, "No. I want to finish."

Let me tell you, of all the genealogy accounts he heard that day Troy's was the only one to make an impression on my son. When he related Troy's family history at the dinner table that night you could have heard a pin drop. We were each stunned into silence, realizing how different our family histories were, and feeling great shame at this very long, very terrible chapter in our nation's history.

I will always be grateful that at a young age my children realized one of the many terrible legacies imposed by the injustice of slavery on our friend's family, and many, many Black Americans.

CRT is an important academic topic. Banning its teaching is little more than hiding under a blanket, fingers in our ears, trying to pretend no lasting harm has been done to the descendants of slavery.
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I think it's sad that nine year old children are made to feel shame over something they had no part of and that happened hundreds of years before they were born.

From age five to ten my son's best friend was Michael a black child the same age. The two were inseperable, when I took my son to the pool or the movies Michael went along, they were in each others houses all day and in each other's dreams at night.

Then at age ten the class was taught about slavery and my son came home in tears, shaken and ashamed. Michael began to distance himself from my son and when they went to junior high a few years later Michael dropped him altogether. It was hard on my son who is an only child and it wasn't good for Michael to start hanging with a group of black boys who were from families with very different values than Michael's hard working, strict Jamaican family.

I think history should be taught honestly, but some things should wait until the later high school years and be taught with care so that no children should feel ashamed of themselves because of the color of their skin.
 
Muskrat said:
And you don’t think a push for a academic performance has something to do with it? Just for fun…watch the documentary “Try Harder”. It is very watchable…and you all might like it.
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No idea what point you are trying to make. I am a former resident of San Francisco, live across the Bay, and am quite familiar with Lowell High and the stink that ensued. Lowell was San Francisco’s pinnacle high school for the city‘s finest students. Admission was merit based, as in proven high level academic performance. This resulted in a student body predominantly Asian, with very few Black students. This was of course politically incorrect so the school was forced to introduce a form of race based admission, which increased the Black portion of the student body. Sorry but academic performance and IQ go hand in hand and can be enhanced by other innate traits such as concentration and perseverance.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I believe the flack about LGBTQ books is backlash about homosexuality is now acceptable. And it is the old fear that such books will transform a perfectly good Christian into "one of them". The issue of trans. is more of a political hot "button" for stirring up the flock.
In truth, when I was in school, the last place I wanted to be was the school library. I doubt much has changed. And I doubt the "offensive" books will ever leave the shelf.
BTW : "LGBTQ"- we are going to start to run out of letters- we have to come up with a name, which encompasses all.
Click to expand...
"Gods children"???
 
ElCastor said:
Sorry but academic performance and IQ go hand in hand and can be enhanced by other innate traits such as concentration and perseverance.
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yes but this is only a part of being human - I have lived and worked in Asian country - my wife worked in their kindergartens ; the kids are pushed and pushed to learn and learn and have no fun believe me - yes you can of course achieve high IQ etc but at what cost to the total human? some of my closest friends are asian and will coroborate these thoughts but still themselves won't change the behaviours - the child must be pushed and pushed to succeed and make the family proud? I have seen many asian emotionally stunted klds?
 
Warrigal said:
In my opinion, prohibition against such s**ual practices occurs because to survive as a tribe or a nation in those times required fighting men. Any form of sex other than male/female, or any form of contraception, meant less babies born and therefore less warriors.
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I think what took place over time was that was interpreted by good Christians to condemn homosexuals & thus the years & years of hate leveled against anyone expressing those tendencies. Sadly IMO that still exists & is the reason for what this thread is about.
 
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Knight said:
I think what took place over time was that was interpreted by good Christians to condemn homosexuals & thus the years & years of hate leveled against anuone expressing those tendencies. Sadly IMO that still exists & is the reason for what this thread is about.
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I don't think so. I think this thread is about what is or isn't age appropriate for students. I have nothing against CRT being taught to high school students and I don't mind high school students having access through their libraries to books where sex happens, either straight or homosexual, but I don't think grade school children should have any of that.

Childhood is short, can't we let them have that before we give kids a bunch of adult problems to worry about?

Do you think a ten year old needs or wants to read detailed sex scenes like this whether it's same sex or boy/girl?
https://nypost.com/2023/02/28/knox-zajac-reads-aloud-from-pornographic-book-at-school-board-meeting/
 
davey said:
yes but this is only a part of being human - I have lived and worked in Asian country - my wife worked in their kindergartens ; the kids are pushed and pushed to learn and learn and have no fun believe me - yes you can of course achieve high IQ etc but at what cost to the total human? some of my closest friends are asian and will coroborate these thoughts but still themselves won't change the behaviours - the child must be pushed and pushed to succeed and make the family proud? I have seen many asian emotionally stunted klds?
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Sorry but IQ is a trait as is a compulsion to succeed, but IQ is not a product of that compulsion, it’s a facilitator of success.
 
Sunny said:
Today's paper had an article about several parents (in Maryland, of all places!) who have removed their kids from their public school because of some of the books in the library about gay or transgender kids, animals who were "gay," etc. They are now suing to get the state to reimburse them for the expenses they have incurred by putting their kids in private schools. (Not sure if they are religious schools or what, it didn't specify.) They claim that if it were not for those books, their kids would be in public school.

I think the claim for reimbursement is ridiculous; people put their kids in private/religious schools for all sorts of reasons, and why on earth should the taxpayers finance that? But I also have some doubts about the appropriateness of such books on the elementary school level.

Where do you stand on this kind of issue? Should books about very controversial religious, social, or political topics be in an elementary school library? How about high school? Whose responsibility should it be to select the books in the library? Do parents have the right to protest? Or is it a slippery slope, which could end with a return to the Dark Ages?
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I agree with you on the reimbursement, but as far as books that are controversial, I don’t believe they should be eliminated, but should be shelved age appropriately. Controversy is part of our nations freedom of speech. Teachers, Librarians and Parents should debate those controversial books more so about what age group should read them. And no books should be allowed that have any inappropriate graphics in them.
 
Della said:
I don't think so. I think this thread is about what is or isn't age appropriate for students. I have nothing against CRT being taught to high school students and I don't mind high school students having access through their libraries to books where sex happens, either straight or homosexual, but I don't think grade school children should have any of that.

Childhood is short, can't we let them have that before we give kids a bunch of adult problems to worry about?

Do you think a ten year old needs or wants to read detailed sex scenes like this whether it's same sex or boy/girl?
https://nypost.com/2023/02/28/knox-zajac-reads-aloud-from-pornographic-book-at-school-board-meeting/
Click to expand...
You might have a point if this wasn't a fact of life now. This is about children's favorite TV viewing.

It begins

Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com › 2021/06/21 › sesa...
Jun 21, 2021 — A new episode of “Sesame Street” introduced a married gay couple, a segment a co-director described as a “milestone” for the iconic .

Format of Sesame Street - Wikipedia
Family with two dads debuts on 'Sesame Street' during ...

They also studied how children's viewing habits had changed and become more sophisticated in thirty years. They found that although the show was produced for 3-to-5-year-olds, children began watching it at a younger age. As a result, the target age for Sesame Street shifted downward, from 4 years to 3 years.

There are other references but this one should be enough to open the eyes of anyone that thinks kids aren't exposed to visual & audio material that would not have be seen not very long ago.

Kind of makes me wonder why the 11 year old checked that book out. And why the parents wanted him to read the parts they objected so much at a school board meeting? Sounds like one of those articles used to get attention for the parents & the parents thought process.
 
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ElCastor said:
Sorry but IQ is a trait as is a compulsion to succeed, but IQ is not a product of that compulsion, it’s a facilitator of success.
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I am not saying IQ is a product of compulsion - I have not seen any research specifically focused on asian toddlers under 5 and their IQ scores - however there is a compulsion about rote learning - if something is repeated often enough it sticks however there is much debate regarding what IQ tests actually are telling us and what usefulness they have in our complex lives

Why are IQ tests problematic?


Ultimately, IQ tests only really measure how well an individual takes an IQ test and little more. IQ tests have the potential to inaccurately measure an individual's intelligence and cause problems including low confidence, unrealistic expectations, and just a generally flawed understanding of a person's potential.19 Feb 2021

Google ???
 
Della said:
I think it's sad that nine year old children are made to feel shame over something they had no part of and that happened hundreds of years before they were born.

From age five to ten my son's best friend was Michael a black child the same age. The two were inseperable, when I took my son to the pool or the movies Michael went along, they were in each others houses all day and in each other's dreams at night.

Then at age ten the class was taught about slavery and my son came home in tears, shaken and ashamed. Michael began to distance himself from my son and when they went to junior high a few years later Michael dropped him altogether. It was hard on my son who is an only child and it wasn't good for Michael to start hanging with a group of black boys who were from families with very different values than Michael's hard working, strict Jamaican family.

I think history should be taught honestly, but some things should wait until the later high school years and be taught with care so that no children should feel ashamed of themselves because of the color of their skin.
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My family story was intended to illustrate how deeply my children felt their classmate's pain and how they got a front row seat to the terrible enduring legacy of slavery. I'd be surprised if it turned out the fairly young teacher ever ran that project again. Troy's shame was not because of the color of his skin but because it was yet another example of the powerlessness of his enslaved ancestors.. Truly, the shame belonged elsewhere, and by my son's account of the incident, shame was sorely felt by all in the classroom that day.

Michael may have distanced himself from your son for reasons having nothing to do with that incident. When children hit junior high they often gravitate to new friendships. Michael may have desired friends who looked like him and deeply understood his challenges of being dark skinned in a country where Whites continue/d to hold most of the power.
 
Knight said:
There are other references but this one should be enough to open the eyes of anyone that thinks kids aren't exposed to visual & audio material that would not have be seen not very long ago.

Kind of makes me wonder why the 11 year old checked that book out. And why the parents wanted him to read the parts they objected so much at a school board meeting? Sounds like one of those articles used to get attention for the parents & the parents thought process.
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I thought the same thing.
 
davey said:
Ultimately, IQ tests only really measure how well an individual takes an IQ test and little more. IQ tests have the potential to inaccurately measure an individual's intelligence and cause problems including low confidence, unrealistic expectations, and just a generally flawed understanding of a person's potential.19 Feb 2021
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Intelligence is real, however you choose, or don‘t choose, to measure it. Bottom line, success, economic and otherwise, in a high tech world may require various attributes, but one critical attribute is intelligence. Like it or not it is real.
 
Knight said:
You might have a point if this wasn't a fact of life now. This is about children's favorite TV viewing.

It begins

Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com › 2021/06/21 › sesa...
Jun 21, 2021 — A new episode of “Sesame Street” introduced a married gay couple, a segment a co-director described as a “milestone” for the iconic .

Format of Sesame Street - Wikipedia
Family with two dads debuts on 'Sesame Street' during ...

They also studied how children's viewing habits had changed and become more sophisticated in thirty years. They found that although the show was produced for 3-to-5-year-olds, children began watching it at a younger age. As a result, the target age for Sesame Street shifted downward, from 4 years to 3 years.

There are other references but this one should be enough to open the eyes of anyone that thinks kids aren't exposed to visual & audio material that would not have be seen not very long ago.

Kind of makes me wonder why the 11 year old checked that book out. And why the parents wanted him to read the parts they objected so much at a school board meeting? Sounds like one of those articles used to get attention for the parents & the parents thought process.
Click to expand...
Not one of those examples are about young kids having sex with each other. Sesame street has yet to show kids taking each others clothes off and touching each other all over. I've said repeatedly on this thread that I think the "two daddies," stories etc. are fine, obviously you haven't actually read my posts, but stuck to your false premise that I'm against gays. .

As for why the kid checked out the book, he probably had no idea of the content. Once he's read it, it can't be unread and clearly his parents wanted the school board to hear it read by a child to get the full impact of how inappropriate it is. Of course it was to get attention to the problem, that's what that school board meeting was about!
 
Sunny said:
Today's paper had an article about several parents (in Maryland, of all places!) who have removed their kids from their public school because of some of the books in the library about gay or transgender kids, animals who were "gay," etc.
Click to expand...
Quote
"Today's paper had an article about several parents (in Maryland, of all places!) who have removed their kids from their public school because of some of the books in the library about gay or transgender kids, animals who were "gay," etc."

Nothing about sex or intelligence in that. I don't know if watching TV isn't done by others but the TV programming I watch includes that very topic as a normal interaction. If anyone checks the list you can see it's quite long and didn't begin a few weeks ago.

For those that don't watch TV if you did you could see this topic represented in this list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dramatic_television_series_with_LGBT_characters:_2020s

What Disney show has a gay guy?
1 Strange World

Strange World features Disney's first openly gay teen character, Ethan, who can be seen acting shy around his crush, Diazo.Jan 22, 2023

Maybe it's just me but I tend to not remember a whole lot about what I read but I do remember what I've seen & heard. So books in a library are cause for a lawsuit Give Me A Break!!!
 
Della said:
Not one of those examples are about young kids having sex with each other. Sesame street has yet to show kids taking each others clothes off and touching each other all over. I've said repeatedly on this thread that I think the "two daddies," stories etc. are fine, obviously you haven't actually read my posts, but stuck to your false premise that I'm against gays. .

As for why the kid checked out the book, he probably had no idea of the content. Once he's read it, it can't be unread and clearly his parents wanted the school board to hear it read by a child to get the full impact of how inappropriate it is. Of course it was to get attention to the problem, that's what that school board meeting was about!
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I never posted that you were against gays. This thread is about Gay & transgender a choice being made by those that feel they fit that as their way of being. Nothing about sex interaction.

As for the 11 year old reading passages to the school board. Why subject that child to that? Why not submit typed copies of the objectional material? I as a parent would never have made a child of mine do something like that. But that is the society we live in now where sensationalism is more important.

As for TV & nudity & soft porn the verb fare pretty much fits what is typical now.
 

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