Migrant boats in the Mediterranean: Why are so many people dying?

Alligatorob

Alligatorob

SF VIP
Location
Northern Utah, transplanted from Florida/Louisiana
I think the answer is simple, these people believe that they are likely to be let into a European country. If Europe did not accept any of them the crossings and resulting deaths would mostly go away. Not what the article says, but it seems to me to be the truth.

The unfortunate reality is probably 75% of the population of Africa could make a case for asylum and would like to move, same is true elsewhere. No good answer except to put an end to it. Not because these are bad people or not deserving people, but because Europe is pretty much full. Don't mean to pick on Europe and Africa, the same is true here, and in much of the world. We have to find another way to help folks that does not involve mass migration, my opinion anyway.

Migrant boats in the Mediterranean: Why are so many people dying?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66478091
 

Paco Dennis said:
This climate migration is expected to surge in coming decades with forecasts from international thinktank the IEP predicting that 1.2 billion people could be displaced globally by 2050 due to climate change and natural disasters.
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Yep, and when you add in those suffering political or economic problems the number gets a whole lot larger. We just have no place to put all those people, need to find a better solution.
 

Alligatorob said:
I think the answer is simple, these people believe that they are likely to be let into a European country. If Europe did not accept any of them the crossings and resulting deaths would mostly go away. Not what the article says, but it seems to me to be the truth.

The unfortunate reality is probably 75% of the population of Africa could make a case for asylum and would like to move, same is true elsewhere. No good answer except to put an end to it. Not because these are bad people or not deserving people, but because Europe is pretty much full. Don't mean to pick on Europe and Africa, the same is true here, and in much of the world. We have to find another way to help folks that does not involve mass migration, my opinion anyway.

Migrant boats in the Mediterranean: Why are so many people dying?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66478091
Click to expand...
I think the civilized world can do much better than we are now, and ending asylum is not the answer.

Lax effort on the part of Italy and Greece


Abandoned at sea
 
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againstthegrain said:
I think the civilized world can do much better than we are now, and ending asylum is not the answer.
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I agree we can do better. But where do we put all those people? The US has become much more crowded in my lifetime, and not for the better.

I know you live in Idaho, when I first moved to Utah (1968) Idaho had about 700,000 people, today you have about 2,000,000. Florida, the state I lived in the longest had about 4 million when I was a kid, and now is over 22 million. In my experience all these additional people has increased crowding and decreased access to many of the outdoor things I enjoy. It has to stop sometime, why not now?

Seems to me that solutions involving helping people find a better life whilst staying where they are would work best.
 
So many are dying because Mediterranean storms
start suddenly with no warning and they are always
very bad.

If all the people in Africa, go to Europe and all the
people in South America, go to North America, then
the Planet Earth will become unstable and might just
wobble out of its orbit!

The migrations should, in my opinion be going in the
other direction, to keep some semblance of balance.

There are Billions in the Northern Hemisphere and not
so many in the Southern!

Mike.
 
Alligatorob said:
I agree we can do better. But where do we put all those people? The US has become much more crowded in my lifetime, and not for the better.

I know you live in Idaho, when I first moved to Utah (1968) Idaho had about 700,000 people, today you have about 2,000,000. Florida, the state I lived in the longest had about 4 million when I was a kid, and now is over 22 million. In my experience all these additional people has increased crowding and decreased access to many of the outdoor things I enjoy. It has to stop sometime, why not now?

Seems to me that solutions involving helping people find a better life whilst staying where they are would work best.
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"Seems to me that solutions involving helping people find a better life whilst staying where they are would work best."

And how is that going to work ? Outta-sight/outta-mind. Most people's caring lasts about as long as it takes to read the headline.

Cold ? Yes , but tell us what plan are you going to set into action ? And will you even remember this come ... oh say this Friday ?

No I don't have any answers either, and wouldn't even begin to know where to start , even if i had the means .... which i do not.

It will become just another fading/forgotten news story.
 
Alligatorob said:
I agree we can do better. But where do we put all those people? The US has become much more crowded in my lifetime, and not for the better.

I know you live in Idaho, when I first moved to Utah (1968) Idaho had about 700,000 people, today you have about 2,000,000. Florida, the state I lived in the longest had about 4 million when I was a kid, and now is over 22 million. In my experience all these additional people has increased crowding and decreased access to many of the outdoor things I enjoy. It has to stop sometime, why not now?

Seems to me that solutions involving helping people find a better life whilst staying where they are would work best.
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We can't and won't end asylum because we did and hopefully always will welcome and support those that are not safe in their country of origin, which is what asylum is intended for. What you're presumably targeting is an economic migration which as suggested above is going to increase dramatically w continued climate change.

While we may prefer to live w less people others in our states are overjoyed by the increase in population and the money and wealth that's generated. Frankly I'd rather be crowded out by people that were suffering vs those that speculate on housing, land, tourists, and those that own homes all over the world.

Here's a phrase that's gone out of style that's relevant: "live simply so others can simply live."
 
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I thought politics weren't allowed? This is one huge political hot potato. Don't get me started because I quite agree. This mass migration needs to end but won't because it's planned population displacement. All of a sudden, these people from poor countries aren't happy where they have been for hundreds of years.

Yes, in a perfect world, teach them how to farm better, create businesses and encourage the inventive among their youth. Education would be a start but we simply can't control the world. (As far as Africa is concerned, maybe stop genociding your farmers for their skin color.)

I don't buy the climate change BS. Climate change aka weather. There are worse weather events in history if you delve into it. It's simply a lie that we're experiencing the worst yet and the lie is being told for a reason. C'mon, we're all old enough to remember when global warming was global cooling and when we boomers called that out because we could remember that suddenly global warming because climate change aka weather. Never listen to Chicken Little. Chicken Little is a bloody fool. The earth's temperature rising one degree doesn't really affect anything - even if it were true. It's not.

Steps down off soap box.
 
Blaze Duskdreamer said:
I don't buy the climate change BS. Climate change aka weather. There are worse weather events in history if you delve into it. It's simply a lie that we're experiencing the worst yet and the lie is being told for a reason. C'mon, we're all old enough to remember when global warming was global cooling and when we boomers called that out because we could remember that suddenly global warming because climate change aka weather. Never listen to Chicken Little. Chicken Little is a bloody fool. The earth's temperature rising one degree doesn't really affect anything - even if it were true. It's not.
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Oh my! On every sentence in this paragraph.
 
againstthegrain said:
I don't really understand how Americans of non-native origin can rail against migration seeing how their ancestors came here seeking freedom from religious persecution and economic prosperity. It's the height of hypocrisy.
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againstthegrain said:
We can't and won't end asylum because we did and hopefully always will welcome and support those that are not safe in their country of origin, which is what asylum is intended for. What you're presumably targeting is an economic migration which as suggested above is going to increase dramatically w continued climate change.

While we may prefer to live w less people others in our states are overjoyed by the increase in population and the money and wealth that's generated. Frankly I'd rather be crowded out by people that were suffering vs those that speculate on housing, land, tourists, and those that own homes all over the world.

Here's a phrase that's gone out of style that's relevant: "live simply so others can simply live."
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That is all very noble and must make you feel good but practical issues are going to intercede. But, don't listen to me. Here are a couple of recent real world stories to consider.

In Europe’s big cities, migrants are already the majority​

The fear of the peoples of Europe in the face of mass immigration is constantly described as "xenophobia". This is the fear that the camarillas in charge can denounce as "racism", raising the specter of a democratic apocalypse, while the accepted "narrative" evokes an inclusive majority and an excluded minority which, thanks to hyper-tolerance policies, will benefit from it.

But only the blind can deny the ongoing disintegration which validates the sociological thesis of the disappearance of the majority and the birth of a cottage cheese society.

We are talking about the first and second largest Dutch city, the third Swedish city, the second German city, the first Austrian city and the second Belgian city. What do these numbers tell us?

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/375483

Erie County refuses NYC migrants after two sex assaults at Buffalo-area hotels​

https://nypost.com/2023/08/13/ny-erie-county-denies-nyc-migrants-amid-sex-assaults-by-buffalo/
 
Again, America is a nation of immigrants. In the past we (Americans) have denigrated people from certain countries of origin and religious beliefs. They eventually became part of the fabric of the country and contributed mightily to our success and now we think nothing of their presence.
 
In the past learning English was a priority. It no longer is as people are more likely to remain in their own enclaves.
 
Pepper said:
It is anecdotal; my neighborhood is 48% foreign born. Sometimes the chatter gets to me, especially when I meet folks who have been here for decades and won't even make the attempt as they didn't have to. My grandparents had to and it was their first priority.
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I'm correcting myself. Their employment was foreign workers only; their neighborhoods the same. They didn't have to. They made it their first priority, but that was the early 20th Century. They wanted to. They wanted to be American. They wanted to leave behind what hurt them so badly.
 
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