Spanish players furore over bring kissed

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Rose65 said:
I always assumed it is legally assault if anyone so much as lays a hand on anyone in an unwanted way.
People should control themselves, especially men towards women at all times.
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Exactly. That is the correct charge under law. Assault and battery is a more severe charge. Given the circumstances of the unwanted bodily contact and the "kiss" the charge of sexual assault is justified. IMO, he is probably a repeat offender.
 

Warrigal said:
I have seen the video and in my opinion the young woman was definitely assaulted in the legal sense of the word. He vigorously grabbed her in a hug, pulling her up against his body. She did not reciprocate with her arms and the body language indicated that she was very uncomfortable. Then he put both hands on the sides of her head and pulled her in for a hearty kiss on her lips. If that had happened to me I would have wiped my lips with the back of my hand and spat on the ground to register my disgust.

There is an obvious power difference going on here. He is a very powerful man in the soccer world and female players who make a fuss do so at risk to their career as top level athletes.

If he behaves like this in public, in front of the cameras, I shudder to think what he is like when alone with young women.
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Sorry, Warrigal. For once we disagree. I just saw someone who was getting carried away in his enthusiasm about a win. I would grab an athlete by his or her shoulders myself, from pure excitement, except I would never kiss them on the mouth. The cheek maybe! Self restraint when winning a world cup is a bit hard to come by when you're a soccer fan! He may have pulled the athlete in closely but not with any perverse intentions.

Those are things that those who are predisposed to see "offense" will believe, but they should trust their eyes and the situation a bit more. People do have strong emotions at times without being sexual aggressors. I though I was done with the subject but to be told that I was lacking decency, respect and self-control is the straw that broke the Strawman's back, to use a cliche!

Is there a single post when I wasn't decent and as respectful as possible, even if I disagreed vehemently with someone's position. I brought my children (both daughters) up to be loving, accepting and inclusive because I have believed that all of my life!

And having daughters I would have been the first one to hurt the S.O.B. who dared to hurt them sexually in any way. But their sensibilities are those of mature women in their early sixties now, who themselves shake their heads at all those who love to reveal all the "offenses" committed against them on the Internet, in social media and vblogs!
 

Jamala said:
What your sermon fails to address is that it is not Hermosa who is taking up the fight!!!!

It is the Spanish government, FIFA, the women of Spain, and fathers who have daughters who wish to participate in sport.

Give a person like "Don Juan" an inch and he and his unsavoury type in sport will take a yard or more behind the scenes. Then everyone's daughter or son is in danger!!!
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I didn't realize I was preaching, @Jamala! :) And I think your side is starting to make a mountain out of a mole hill. I don't believe that tolerance of one man's enthusiastic going overboard would lead to a world wide sports apocalypse! But since I like all of you, feel free to disagree! Just don't accuse me of encouraging unwanted sexual advances, because I hate them as much as you do!
 
Magna-Carta said:
As it now seems like most of the football organisations are calling for his resignation, including what seems to be some of his own. FIFA suspending him too? I wonder if during any Investigation the accusations of telling a woman that she is here to get on her knees, and the alleged daily fascination with a woman’s underwear will discussed too. Or perhaps it makes better sense to deal with that as a separate matter? And then of cause there is the past corruption allegations against him that some officials might won’t to revisit.

I think regardless what we might all think is fair or think isn’t in all of this, I can’t help wondering how long he is going to remain in his current professional position, before things get too hot to handle.
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If those allegations are true, then I'll take back everything I said in the man's defense!
 
Old Salt said:
I didn't realize I was preaching, @Jamala! :) And I think your side is starting to make a mountain out of a mole hill. I don't believe that tolerance of one man's enthusiastic going overboard would lead to a world wide sports apocalypse! But since I like all of you, feel free to disagree! Just don't accuse me of encouraging unwanted sexual advances, because I hate them as much as you do!
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What do you mean by "your side?" My side is for justice and always will be!
Kissing in Europe and in the Middle East is an age old custom. My husband is Egyptian and they kiss a lot. But kiss a woman outside the family and you suffer the consequences. Cheek kisses not lip kisses. You can say whatever you wish... but... you are wrong!
 
I have never been a football fan, but my interest was ignited when I saw how young women are flocking to the field.
Young girls and boys playing on village greens together. It warmed my hert to see such healthy behaviour.
We need more female involvement in sport... we need more women in authority in sport.... we need respect in sport.... we need civilised behaviour in sport.
We need civilised men in our society.....

Any man or woman applauding this "Don Juan"gets this (n)(n)(n)
 
Jamala said:
What do you mean by "your side?" My side is for justice and always will be!
Kissing in Europe and in the Middle East is an age old custom. My husband is Egyptian and they kiss a lot. But kiss a woman outside the family and you suffer the consequences. Cheek kisses not lip kisses. You can say whatever you wish... but... you are wrong!
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Now see, that's what I would call unwanted, sexual impropriety, and I will join you in condemning it! There is a situational difference! You see that, don't you?
 
Old Salt said:
That's sad, @Shalimar! I couldn't have been any clearer! What sad state of affairs? That a manager gave a quick peck to one of the winners from sheer enthusiasm. If you see anything (sexually) offensive in that then you haven't looked closely at the video but react from personal prejudice!

And, sorry, I didn't read all of the thread, just a news report that stated that Ms. Hermoso felt she was being sexually assaulted! Which is plainly ridiculous ... to most of us! And I had no idea that there were any anti-gay comments. I don't read everything! I have never uttered anything anti-gay, nor felt that way, having preached tolerance and acceptance all of my life! Not that I need to justify myself, just clearing things up for those who might be equally predisposed to judge on the strength of one post!

How's the weather on Vancouver Island?
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With all due respect Old Salt, you aren’t a women and that was no quick peck. A quick peck doesn’t involve grabbing the persons head nor does it usually involve forcing a kiss on someone’s lips.

A woman should always have the option and ability to refuse a kiss. If this was a quick peck anywhere on the face, she would have been able to avoid the entire thing by moving her head or stepping back. This man didn’t give her that option which means it was ‘forced.’

As a man, this action might seem like no big deal but as a women, when any person, whether man or woman, grabs your head and forces a kiss on your lips without consent, it’s actually considered assault.

If you force anyone to do anything against their will, such as trying to kiss them, it is an assault.


That’s not his wife or girlfriend.
It’s a team player. Where’s the respect and professionalism.
 
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Jamala said:
I have never been a football fan, but my interest was ignited when I saw how young women are flocking to the field.
Young girls and boys playing on village greens together. It warmed my hert to see such healthy behaviour.
We need more female involvement in sport... we need more women in authority in sport.... we need respect in sport.... we need civilised behaviour in sport.
We need civilised men in our society.....

Any man or woman applauding this "Don Juan"gets this (n)(n)(n)
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Three cheers for all of the above! But, please, no nastiness, nobody applauded! Not even I!
 
Old Salt said:
Sorry, Warrigal. For once we disagree. I just saw someone who was getting carried away in his enthusiasm about a win. I would grab an athlete by his or her shoulders myself, from pure excitement, except I would never kiss them on the mouth. The cheek maybe! Self restraint when winning a world cup is a bit hard to come by when you're a soccer fan! He may have pulled the athlete in closely but not with any perverse intentions.
But he did not grab her by the shoulders. He had his hands firmly at her back and pulled her into contact with his body. Given his crotch grabbing antics earlier that could be a very uncomfortable situation for any young woman, regardless of her sexual orientation. Her arms did not return the hug. On the contrary, her back was arched away from him as a sign of resistance. Additionally, he gripped her head with both hands for the kiss on the lips. I don't know how this goes down with Spanish women, but this Aussie would have been in a state of shock after such an assault on my person.
Those are things that those who are predisposed to see "offense" will believe, but they should trust their eyes and the situation a bit more. People do have strong emotions at times without being sexual aggressors. I though I was done with the subject but to be told that I was lacking decency, respect and self-control is the straw that broke the Strawman's back, to use a cliche!

Is there a single post when I wasn't decent and as respectful as possible, even if I disagreed vehemently with someone's position. I brought my children (both daughters) up to be loving, accepting and inclusive because I have believed that all of my life!

And having daughters I would have been the first one to hurt the S.O.B. who dared to hurt them sexually in any way. But their sensibilities are those of mature women in their early sixties now, who themselves shake their heads at all those who love to reveal all the "offenses" committed against them on the Internet, in social media and vblogs!
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As a former teacher of teenage girls, I would have given him a piece of my mind if he had tried that on any of my charges. It doesn't only happen in sport. Over the years I have been shocked to learn that young women are treated even more badly in other male dominated domains, including the police force and the military. It is time that the culture of male entitlement is brought to an end, for the sake of young women everywhere.
 
Warrigal said:
As a former teacher of teenage girls, I would have given him a piece of my mind if he had tried that on any of my charges. It doesn't only happen in sport. Over the years I have been shocked to learn that young women are treated even more badly in other male dominated domains, including the police force and the military. It is time that the culture of male entitlement is brought to an end, for the sake of young women everywhere.
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The arguments are getting stronger and more effective but on which side??
 
PeppermintPatty said:
With all due respect Old Salt, you aren’t a women and that was no quick peck. A quick peck doesn’t involve grabbing the persons head nor does it usually involve forcing a kiss on someone’s lips.

I woman she always have the option and ability to refuse a kiss. If this was a quick peck anywhere on the face, she would have been able to avoid the entire thing by moving her head or stepping back. This man didn’t give her that option which means it was ‘forced.’

As a man, this action might seem like no big deal but as a women, when any person, whether man or woman, grabs your head and forces a kiss on your lips without consent, it’s actually considered assault.

That’s not his wife or girlfriend.
It’s a team player. Where’s the respect and professionalism.
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Sorry, maybe my past is interfering with my good judgment. I always grabbed my girls by the head and planted a kiss on their forehead. I just thought of it as an innocent gesture by an older man! My mistake if I misinterpreted! Just goes to show that my heart is pure! :)
 
Warrigal said:
As a former teacher of teenage girls, I would have given him a piece of my mind if he had tried that on any of my charges. It doesn't only happen in sport. Over the years I have been shocked to learn that young women are treated even more badly in other male dominated domains, including the police force and the military. It is time that the culture of male entitlement is brought to an end, for the sake of young women everywhere.
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Why have we argued? I totally agree!!!
 
Look, all I meant was, don't jump too quickly to support the cause because, grabby or not, to me it appeared innocent, done in a moment of enthusiastic joy about winning!

That was rather naive of me, I admit, because a) that's something I might have done on the spur of the moment, without the kiss on the mouth and b) it never occured to me that there might be a sexual offense in a very short touch and (unwelcome) kiss! Honestly, to me, how can there be? The man would get nothing out of that. I wouldn't! Which means that I was too subjective because I put myself into the picture and found myself innocent!

I did not expect the strong emotional reactions and, who knows, through my defense of the man I might have even touched some personal nerve in some of you! If I did, I apologize and plead for understanding and peace! Amen to that?
 
[, don't jump too quickly to support the cause] erhmm wot cause are you talkin about now - there seems to have been so many??

[ in a very short touch] - looked like a long and hard one to me - on a par with 'manhandling'?

[very short touch and (unwelcome) kiss!] well short and/or unwelcomed I think she knew it was coming and didn't seem to be in a position to get out of it?

surely this can all be resolved with a kiss on both cheeks and an apology by the man to the woman of course!!
 

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