Israel Has Declared War after Unprecedented Hamas Attack

[Old Salt]

I’ve read the Quran and it contains some violent teachings including those you mentioned. All of the violent Muslim war groups like Hamas, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boco Haram, etc. believe in and follow the Quran. Unfortunately, it appears Presidents Bush and Obama never read the Quran.They told the American people Islam is a religion of peace

We, as Christians, also profess to be all for peace and love but when going to our book, we find the God of Israel giving orders to wipe out men, women, children in the Land of Milk and Honey because he is giving it to the Israelites now. Or look at the Psalm where the fervent wish of the composer is to see the enemies babies smashed against a rock!

It all started with oral traditions in a less civilized time, was finally written down and became "Holy Scripture!" And while much of our O.T. IS inspired, a lot of it simply reflects the times. Sadly, fundamentalists on both sides are attracted to the less civil passages which allow them to hate and impose their will, and yet get approval from a Higher Authority because, after all, the Book says what they are doing is scriptural!

Let's not be literalists but cherish and live by the beautiful, uplifting, positive parts of our Holy Book that stress love (which actually means a charitable spirit) for one's neighbour!

 

[Harry Le Hermit]

Not true, HD! At least not in accordance with our news. It stated that, according to surveys undertaken, only 27% of Palestinians actually support Hamas! This figure was before the attack. Or am I watching left-wing "fake" news without realizing it?

That was 27% polled supporting hamas to lead the Palestinians, then there is Fatah at 40%, etc. etc. All the groups dislike Israel, the U.S., etc.

That 27% was prior to the Hamas slaughter of Israelis. Hamas is currently running 53% and Fatah is 14%.

 

[TabbyAnn]

The problem isn't Palestinians vs Jews. It's the sick mentality of terrorists. The Taliban, Isis, Al Qaeda, and now Hamas are all cut from the same cloth. They are Islamic fundamentalists who do not hesitate to commit murder and all kinds of other atrocities, to seize power and dictate to the people unfortunate enough to live under their rule.

This is getting to the root of the problem. The different names given to Muslim war groups such as Hamas, ISIS, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Boco Haram, Palestinians, etc. obscure the fact they are all Muslims cut from the same cloth who all follow the same Quran. It’s the same Quran followed by Muslim countries such as Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. And it’s the same Quran followed by upscale Muslims enjoying life in non-Muslim countries who build Mosques in their adopted countries that teach the Quran. The problem isn’t Palestinians vs. Jews. It’s Muslims vs. Jews and Islam vs. the world. Until we recognize this, the problem will be on everybody’s turf just like 9/11 was on ours.

 

[Old Salt]

That was 27% polled supporting hamas to lead the Palestinians, then there is Fatah at 40%, etc. etc. All the groups dislike Israel, the U.S., etc.

That 27% was prior to the Hamas slaughter of Israelis. Hamas is currently running 53% and Fatah is 14%.

I can almost understand the 53%. If I were living in Gaza and innocent of the atrocities committed by Hamas I would be enraged if my building came down on me and my family, killing most of them. Or if I had to watch my neighbours who are also innocent live without water, food, medications, electricity! Taking out our outrage on the innocent is not something I could ever support! Do I have a solution? Heck, no! Just praying for a safe release of the hostages and a speedy demise of Hamas!

Before you judge me too harshly as being pro Hamas, (I despise the brutal thugs) I was a child during WWII and well remember the atrocities committed by the Allies against cities like Dresden and Hamburg late in the war. The Napalm was so strong and caused such a firestorm in Hamburg that people were getting sucked into it.

My family were socialists ... closet, or they would have ended up in a KZ, yet at that moment, when the horrible news reached us, we hated the Allies. Of course Hitler started it and there is no excuse for it, survivors of the London Blitz probably said at the time, "good for us, those Nazis deserve a taste of their own medicine", but the survivors of the attack on Dresden, a city that was flooded with refugees from the East, a city that had no military value to the Nazis, didn't think that way. They ended up hating back ... at least for a while. And that's how I see the 53%.

The outrage is temporary, a response to innocents getting killed, so I completely understand how Israelis feel at the moment ... as well as those Palestinians who had nothing to do with this brutal and barbaric attack!

 

[Myrtle]

Old Salt, I don’t think there’s much point in trying to draw an equivalency between Gaza and Israel or between the Quran and the Bible. Maybe those are good arguments for a bunch of liberal political types but they don’t move me.

I see the events of the last few days, beheaded babies, gang raped women, elders shot dead on the street, families hiding in their safe rooms.

There is so much more I could say but I will just remind you that it’s 2023 for all of us and Christians are living under Jesus and the New Testament. Since you brought the Christian Bible into this Islamic/Jewish event why don’t you compare that to the Quran?

I can almost understand the 53%. If I were living in Gaza and innocent of the atrocities committed by Hamas I would be enraged if my building came down on me and my family, killing most of them. Or if I had to watch my neighbours who are also innocent live without water, food, medications, electricity! Taking out our outrage on the innocent is not something I could ever support! Do I have a solution? Heck, no! Just praying for a safe release of the hostages and a speedy demise of Hamas!

Before you judge me too harshly as being pro Hamas, I was a child during WWII and well remember the atrocities committed by the Allies against cities like Dresden and Hamburg late in the war. The Napalm was so strong and caused such a firestorm in Hamburg that people were getting sucked into it.

My family were socialists ... closet, or they would have ended up in a KZ, yet at that moment, when the horrible news reached us, we hated the Allies. Of course Hitler started it and there is no excuse for it, survivors of the London Blitz probably said at the time, "good for us, those Nazis deserve a taste of their own medicine", but the survivors of the attack on Dresden, a city that was flooded with refugees from the East, a city that had no military value to the Nazis, didn't think that way. They ended up hating back ... at least for a while. And that's how I see the 53%.

The outrage is temporary, a response to innocents getting killed, so I completely understand how Israelis feel at the moment ... as well as Palestinians who had nothing to do with this brutal and barbaric attack!

And that says it all.

 

[ElCastor]

Let's not be literalists but cherish and live by the beautiful, uplifting, positive parts of our Holy Book that stress love (which actually means a charitable spirit) for one's neighbour!

Very inspiring! So in your inspiring spirit of love and charity I suppose you would have had us embrace Hitler and Pearl Harbor with the same spirit of warmth and love?

Unfortunately, the truth is that Islam has always embraced other religions with a spirit of intense hatred and violence, and does so to this very day. An interesting web site has for years documented the murderous activities of Islam directed at other religions, as wells as sinners among its own as well as competing sects.

Here it is over the past 30 days …
List of Islamic Terror Attacks

 

[TabbyAnn]

I've read lamentations of Gaza being closed off and Palestinians have no place to go. To most any sane person that would be another good reason not to start a war with a neighbor ... one which is also a supply source of food, water and other necessities. Maybe they should have thought more clearly and thoroughly about the recent militant terrorist actions of their comrades, said to be on their behalf, before proceeding. Maybe they should have driven Hamas from their ranks before it came to this.

I’ve wondered about the logic of Gaza’s actions for several years before this recent conflict. After Israel withdrew occupation in 2005, and turned Gaza back over to the Muslims, I wondered why the Muslims didn’t set about improving their land and growing their economy instead of continuing to lob rockets over into Israel and complaining about Israel’s reaction. I think the answer lies in the Muslim ideology of warring conquest instead of improving a land and growing an economy. They wouldn’t drive Hamas from their ranks because they are all one cloth. They are all Muslims who follow the same Quran. The fact that the West calls some of them Palestinians and some of them Hamas, only serves to confuse the West.

 

[CallMeKate]

You got things mixed up. I feel charitable when it comes to victims of conflicts, not the authors of it!

Any of that "charity" left over for the side that is seeing their BABIES beheaded? These people danced in their streets when the twin towers fell... perhaps you were one who thought that was deserved because the terrorists thought they had a reason to do it? The "victims" you talk about would kill ANY of us and then go party... they are commanded to do that!

I know your background and where you grew up... but these last few posts have been disturbing to me to see *anything* except horror and disgust being voiced.

 

[Myrtle]

The first thing to remember is this, there was no bombing in Gaza last week, there was food, water, electricity, etc.

Then Hamas terror came to the south of Israel. If terrorists aren’t prepared to have their nest destroyed then don’t start the war. The ugly truth is that they don’t care any more about their own women and children than they did the Israeli women and children they slaughtered.

Yes, innocents will die in Gaza and it is the fault of those who made the cowardly attack, not the fault of those who were living in peace when the horrors were brought to their doorsteps. Israel cannot stand by, do nothing and wait for the next attack and the next, they must protect themselves by wiping out the nest.

It’s interesting that there are still people who blame the allies for bombing Germany instead of blaming Hitler. Apparently they would have preferred that Hitler take over the entire world, which he was on a path to do, had countries not come together and stopped him.

 

[hollydolly]

Who is Mohammed Deif, the Hamas commander behind the attack on Israel?​

• Deif is secretive chief of Hamas military wing in Gaza
• Held responsible for deaths of dozens in suicide attacks
• Took two years to plan Saturday's assault
• Cites 'rage' over Israeli raids on Al Aqsa mosque

Israel calls last week's devastating attack by Hamas its 9/11 moment. The secretive mastermind behind the assault, Palestinian militant Mohammed Deif, calls it Al Aqsa Flood.

The phrase Israel's most wanted man used in an audio tape broadcast as Hamas fired thousands of rockets out of the Gaza strip on Saturday signalled the attack was payback for Israeli raids at Jerusalem's Al Aqsa mosque.

It was in May 2021, after a raid on Islam's third holiest site that enraged the Arab and Muslim world, when Deif began planning the operation that has killed 1,200 people in Israel and wounded more than 2,700, a source close to Hamas said.


"It was triggered by scenes and footage of Israel storming Al Aqsa mosque during Ramadan, beating worshippers, attacking them, dragging elderly and young men out of the mosque," the source in Gaza said. "All this fuelled and ignited the anger."

That storming of the mosque compound, long a flashpoint for violence over matters of sovereignty and religion in Jerusalem, helped set off 11 days of fighting between Israel and Hamas.


More than two years on, Saturday's assault, the worst breach in Israeli defences since the 1973 Arab-Israeli conflict, pushed Israel to declare war and launch retaliatory airstrikes on Gaza that have killed 1,055 people and wounded more than 5,000.

Israel also said on Wednesday it had killed at least 1,000 Palestinian gunmen who infiltrated from Gaza.

A survivor of seven Israeli assassination attempts, the most recent in 2021, Deif rarely speaks and never appears in public. So when Hamas's TV channel announced he was about to speak on Saturday, Palestinians knew something significant was afoot.


"Today the rage of Al Aqsa, the rage of our people and nation is exploding. Our mujahedeen (fighters), today is your day to make this criminal understand that his time has ended," Deif said in the recording.

There are only three images of Deif: one in his 20s, another of him masked, and an image of his shadow, which was used when the audio tape was broadcast.

The whereabouts of Deif are unknown, though he is most likely in Gaza in the maze of tunnels under the enclave. An Israeli security source said Deif was directly involved in the planning and operational aspects of the attack.


Palestinian sources said one of the homes Israeli airstrikes hit in Gaza belonged to Deif's father. Deif's brother and two other family members were killed, according to the sources.

TWO BRAINS, ONE MASTERMIND​

The source close to Hamas said the decision to prepare the attack was taken jointly by Deif, who commands Hamas's Al Qassam Brigades, along with Yehya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas in Gaza, but it was clear who was the architect.

"There are two brains, but there is one mastermind," the source said, adding that information about the operation was known only to a handful of Hamas leaders

More here.. Who is Mohammed Deif, the Hamas commander behind the attack on Israel?

 

[hollydolly]

Egypt is moving to avert a mass exodus from the Gaza Strip into its Sinai Peninsula, as Israeli bombardment halted crossings at the main exit point from the Palestinian enclave on Tuesday, Gaza officials and Egyptian security sources said.

Israel's assault on Gaza has caused alarm in Egypt, which has urged Israel to provide safe passage for civilians from the enclave rather than encouraging them to flee southwest towards Sinai, two Egyptian security sources said.


Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said on Tuesday that the escalation in Gaza was "highly dangerous" and that Egypt was pursuing a negotiated solution to the violence with regional and international partners.

Egypt would not allow the issue to be settled at the expense of others, Sisi said in comments reported by state news agency MENA, an apparent reference to the risk that Palestinians could be pushed into Sinai.


The Rafah border crossing remained shut on Wednesday morning, after Egyptian military planes conducted flights nearby overnight, security sources said. The military has also taken up new positions close to the border, running patrols to monitor the area, said Ahmed Salem of the Sinai Foundation for Human Rights.

Rafah is the sole possible crossing point into Sinai for Gaza's 2.3 million residents. The rest of the densely populated strip is surrounded by the sea, and by Israel, which has announced a total siege of Gaza and could launch a ground offensive.


The passage of people and goods in and out of Gaza is strictly controlled under a blockade enforced by Egypt and Israel.

On Tuesday, the Israeli military revised a recommendation by one of its spokespeople that Palestinians fleeing its air strikes in Gaza head to Egypt.
Egypt moves to prevent exodus of Palestinians from besieged Gaza

 

[Buckeye]

Maybe it's time to face the fact that Israel is in the wrong place. I suggest we offer them the state of New Mexico as a new homeland. Israel's population is about 10 million, 75% of which are Jews, so less than 8 million new inhabitants. Israel is rather small (less than 9,000 square miles, while New Mexico is much larger (over 121,000 square miles). The current residents of New Mexico (a little over 2 million) would be relocated within the US, except for the illegals, that should be returned to wherever they came from. New Israel would have to protect their southern border with Mexico, however they saw fit. Yes, the US would then only have 49 states again, and would need a new flag, etc.

And they should totally flatten what is currently Israel on the way out.

 

[Robb.hisself]

It is really nothing new. Just another proxy war between Iran and Israel. Iran, through Hamas, is simply using the people of Gaza as hostages to their aims. Wipe out Iran. Problem over.

 

[jimintoronto]

While I managed a restaurant, and later while I owned a liquor/convenience store, I employed 3 different guys who immigrated from the Middle-East. Two were Muslim, one was Christian.

The Christian guy told me that Christians in his home country had to live in Christian areas. Most of those areas are situated either outside the cities or on the outskirts of the cities. Christian neighborhoods that are WITHIN a city have some type of border around them, normally a cement wall.

He said that Christians who work in a city (i.e., Damascus, Tehran, Mosul) have to go by a Muslim name and have to observe Muslim traditions and rituals such as prayers and hand-washing during their work hours. If they work and live in the city, they must adopt a Muslim name and observe Muslim traditions and rituals 24/7. There are no churches or (for sure) synagogues within his home country's cities.

Where this is done to a much lesser extent in Israel, it's labelled apartheid and oppression. Which, imo, is an insult to Black South Africans. It's even labelled an atrocity and inhumane.

The Muslim guys told me that, while growing up in their home country, they were taught from a very young age, in school and at home, that all Jews are dishonest, disloyal, dirty, and sexually deviant, that it's a travesty that some Jews managed to survive the Holocaust, and that Jews own and run the US.

Neither of them had ever met a Jew until they immigrated to the US, and both of them were stunned to find out that I'm basically half-Jewish because I seemed like such a nice guy.

Israel does indeed suppress it's Palestinian citizens to a certain extent. One of the reasons is because, indeedy-doo, after the Holocaust and numerous other attempts at their genocide for centuries, there simply aren't many Jews left. They comprise less than 2% of the world's population. Israel's gov't is trying to ensure that their non-Jewish population never outnumbers the Jewish population.

And that could definitely happen. Palestinians would have as many kids as possible with the goal of becoming the majority in Israel. Israeli Jews literally fear becoming completely extinct in their own country.

To your point about babies being born in Palestine...The Gaza strip has a population of about 2 million people. About one million of them are kids under the age of 10. JimB.

 

[CallMeKate]

It is really nothing new. Just another proxy war between Iran and Israel. Iran, through Hamas, is simply using the people of Gaza as hostages to their aims. Wipe out Iran. Problem over.

It *is* "something new." It's not a "war"... they are beheading babies. It doesn't matter who it's between or whether it's a proxy war. This is a different kind of evil. This is not a war.

 

[Rakaia]

I believe that the north of Western Australia was considered and declined as a possibility for a Jewish homeland.

 

[Myrtle]

These suggestions of the world moving a modern day successful democracy out of its country are rather offensive. How would anyone propose to accomplish that?

 

[jimintoronto]

These suggestions of the world moving a modern day successful democracy out of its country are rather offensive. How would anyone propose to accomplish that?

Obviously it isn't going to happen. The idea ( in my opinion ) was a reaction to the horrors of the past weekend. An idea without any chance of it actually happening. I can sympathize with the person who wrote it, who was probably thinking...WE have to do something .....This isn't the solution. JimB.

 

[hearlady]

My opinion is that Israel take the Gaza Strip, relocate the remaining population to the West Bank, get out of the West Bank as occupiers, and relocate West Bank Israelis to Gaza, and let the Palestinians have the West Bank. The agreement signed by the surrounding countries should include a clause that if the West Bank Palestinians attack Israel, all bets are off and Israel can retake it.
The problem? No-one listens to me.

 

[Myrtle]

The problem? No-one listens to me.

I've noticed I have that same problem, hearlady!

 

[jimintoronto]

Jim,

I seldom post but if they’re so all fired up defending Hamas why aren’t they in Gaza? Citizens or not they need to go there and put their lives on the line if it’s so important. Let’s face it Gaza is only important to Iran as a staging area for proxy terrorists. Ever wonder why the Saudi’s and Jordanians don’t want them?

My point was.......The US State Department issues international student visas, so they can also revoke them. By doing so, the State Department would be acting to reduce the number of terrorist supporters in the USA. A student visa is an invitation to come to the USA to attend an educational institute. That invitation can be revoked. JimB.

 

[hollydolly]

Rocket slams into Israeli hospital and supermarket in new wave of strikes from Gaza - as Benjamin Netanyahu posts horrifying image of blood-soaked child's bed and labels Hamas 'worse than ISIS'​

Hamas has this afternoon launched a fresh wave of rocket attacks across southern Israel, including a child development centre, even as Gaza holds its breath with Israel's Defence Forces massing hundreds of thousands of troops on its border.

Shocking images and videos out of Israel's southern city of Ashkelon purportedly showed how the Child Development wing of the Barzilai Medical Centre suffered a direct hit which reduced parts of the building to rubble.

A spokeswoman for the centre said: 'The child development centre at the Barzilai hospital in Ashkelon suffered a direct hit by a projectile from Gaza,' while Deputy Director Dr. Gili Givati told Israeli public radio: 'The development centre was completely destroyed.'

The strike was just one of many launched by the armed wings of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, who declared they were targeting multiple locations in southern and central Israel with rockets, as sirens sounded in areas surrounding the Gaza Strip.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu later shared a harrowing image of a child's bed with its sheets soaked in blood, along with the caption: 'Hamas is worse than ISIS.'

Meanwhile, Israeli airstrikes demolished entire Palestinian neighbourhoods on Wednesday, and hospitals in the Gaza Strip are struggling to treat the injured with dwindling medical supplies as the IDF encircle the 25-mile-long swathe of land ahead of a planned invasion.

An Israel Defence Forces source provided a photograph of a child's blood-soaked bed in Kibbutz Kerem Shalom following a Hamas-led attack on the home. Israeli PM Netanyahu said the images proved Hamas is 'worse than ISIS'

man inspects the damage at a supermarket after it was hit by an incoming rocket in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon on October 11, 2023

Hamas rocket slams into Israeli hospital's child development centre

 

[Buckeye]

Obviously it isn't going to happen. The idea ( in my opinion ) was a reaction to the horrors of the past weekend. An idea without any chance of it actually happening. I can sympathize with the person who wrote it, who was probably thinking...WE have to do something .....This isn't the solution. JimB.

{shrug} there will never be peace in the middle east, and we have 75 years of history to prove it. The most recent horrors will not be the last, and things will only get worse. There is no solution to the current situation unless you are willing to totally wipe out Iran and Iraq and Afghanistan and a few others. So, you don't like my solution, then what's yours?

 

[Fartmaster]

So does Israel, I guess.

Could be Hamas has new leadership or a lot more members or weapons or motivation, or all of those.

Could be more support from the Kremlin. Like, maybe Putin wants a significant distraction from their unprovoked attack against Ukraine. He's had a few recent talks with Palestinian-friendly Iranian leaders, hoping for more weapons and money from them. Could be they made a deal.

don said Putin is a good guy

 

[AnnieA]

{shrug} there will never be peace in the middle east, and we have 75 years of history to prove it. The most recent horrors will not be the last, and things will only get worse. There is no solution to the current situation unless you are willing to totally wipe out Iran and Iraq and Afghanistan and a few others. So, you don't like my solution, then what's yours?

There wouldn't be peace in the Middle East if every Jewish Israeli evaporated into thin air. Ask Iranian women about that.