Israel Has Declared War after Unprecedented Hamas Attack

[TabbyAnn]

Egypt moves to prevent exodus of Palestinians from besieged Gaza

Interesting. I would have thought Egypt would have kept the Rafah crossing open to Gazans, since they’re the only other country bordering Gaza. Perhaps the Gazans should have confirmed this with Egypt before their horrific attack on Israel.

 

[Cornhusker]

The outrage is temporary, a response to innocents getting killed, so I completely understand how Israelis feel at the moment ... as well as those Palestinians who had nothing to do with this brutal and barbaric attack!

Those people who had nothing to do with the attack will be used as shields by Hamas.
They are known to hide behind schools, hospitals, etc. because they know others value innocent lives, while Hamas, obviously, does not.

 

[hollydolly]

Those people who had nothing to do with the attack will be used as shields by Hamas.
They are known to hide behind schools, hospitals, etc. because they know others value innocent lives, while Hamas, obviously, does not.

..but the terrorists are then hiding behind their own families... which begs the question are these relatives of these terrorists innocent ?

 

[Naturally]

Interesting. I would have thought Egypt would have kept the Rafah crossing open to Gazans, since they’re the only other country bordering Gaza. Perhaps the Gazans should have confirmed this with Egypt before their horrific attack on Israel.

Another example of a Muslim country / Arab state refusing to take in and embrace Palestinians. One of their own as it were. And even if they were allowed in, the Palestinians would be kept in refugee camps in those countries as refugees. And why is that?

The refugee issue is a tool used for bashing Israel - and justifying anti-Semitism. Muslim and Arab states are gatekeepers that ensure there will be no peaceful resolution, with Palestinian refugees being the only ones in the world kept in the position of being refugees for perpetuity. To the rest of the Muslim and Arab world, the Palestinians are simply pawns. And to that end, the current Israeli Palestinian war is a proxy fight.

By refuting Palestinians and failing to welcome them as their own, Muslim and Arab countries are driving Palestinians into the open arms of extremists, especially Islamist groups such as Hamas. And they can continue their practices of denying access to Palestinians without worry about the response of the international community or the media. No one is going to take to the streets of European and American cities to condemn Arabs for mistreating Arabs.

 

[Murrmurr]

don said Putin is a good guy

Obviously he didn't get to know him very well.

Probly went something like this:

"Here's the cognac, through there is the women, over that way's the Doritos. Let me know if you need anything."
~Putin

 

[Murrmurr]

To your point about babies being born in Palestine...The Gaza strip has a population of about 2 million people. About one million of them are kids under the age of 10. JimB.

No matter how many "states," they decided to go for it.

 

[AnnieA]

Interesting. I would have thought Egypt would have kept the Rafah crossing open to Gazans, since they’re the only other country bordering Gaza. Perhaps the Gazans should have confirmed this with Egypt before their horrific attack on Israel.

I didn't realize until these Hamas terror attacks that many Arabic nations have washed their hands of the Palestinians and in some cases now actively discriminate against them. Israeli retaliation may flip sympathies back to Palestinians in time but up til now, they've lost much of their support of the governments in the Middle East.

From 2019 RT Arabic:

"Palestinians bring disaster to anyone who hosts them. Jordan hosted them, and there was Black September; Lebanon hosted them, and there was a civil war there; Kuwait hosted them, and they turned into Saddam Hussein's soldiers. Now they are using their podiums to curse us." — Mohammed al-Shaikh (Saudi)​

 

[Lilac]

Second biggest, what if they (Hamas) scatter all over the place and take their sadistic terror with them into our cities? With that I mean the rest of the world and not just the West!

Look at the pro-demonstrations taking place across the world, especially in Western countries, in support of Hamas.

Watching the news, it appears they may already be here in the Western countries. Could we actually be looking at not if something happens, but when?

 

[hollydolly]

Footage emerging from what is already being called the Kfar Aza kibbutz massacre is both horrifying and ominous. Horrifying because there is no other word to describe the visceral brutality of Hamas: the dead children; the women dragged off live on camera to be raped and killed; the ground mottled with corpses.

Today reports came in of the massacre of babies, – some of whom were reportedly beheaded. 'They killed them and cut some of their heads, it's a dreadful thing to see,' said David Ben Zion, the deputy commander of Unit 71, an experienced team of paratroopers who led the assault to retake the village. The terrorists were, he added, 'just a jihad machine to kill everybody.'

And it is ominous because as soon as reports came in the denials and conspiracy theories began. Scrolling through pro-Palestinian accounts on Instagram and TikTok it was clear a concerted, and indeed coordinated, effort to discredit the atrocities was already underway. Everything from outright denials to claims that the 'Jews' had done it themselves spooled across the web.

*There is of course no doubt as to the veracity of the atrocities. After all, the footage is there to see by all — uploaded by the very sadists who carried them out.
This makes the attempts to whitewash these war crimes more sickening, but it also shows a twisted logic at work – because make no mistake, it will be effective.

Hamas knows that there is a core constituency of supporters who will believe their every lie and help whitewash their every sin – no matter how grotesque and how obvious they are.

Large swathes of the world are only too happy to believe the worst of the perfidious Jews, and of their alleged sponsors – the West. The antisemitic fanatics who planned this attack and who revel in the gratuitous and vertiginous violence their murderers unleashed know this only too well.

Conspiracy theory is the greatest friend of Hamas in the media war that surrounds the fight on the ground, and it has found its home on modern social media platforms.
Conspiracies protect Hamas from the full consequences of its actions (in the court of public opinion if not the response of the Israel Defence Forces) and also drives a greater wedge between those in the West who rightly abhor its butchery and those willing to swallow any life on its behalf. Chaos is the goal.

For this reason, the greater the violence the better. Hamas showed they have improved the sophistication of their surprise attack capabilities, but also something else far, far worse. They have learned from the terror playbook of ISIS. The goal is simple: to provoke Israel into the most brutal retaliation, that in turn, may provoke Iran and others to intervene on their behalf.
read on here...
How Hamas will exploit conspiracy theorists who deny Kfar Aza massacre

 

[hollydolly]

OMG..this was a sign in a Lush store in Ireland today....

 

[hollydolly]

The UK-based cosmetics retailer has long faced criticism for its controversial political gestures but the sign on a shop in Dublin provoked particular anger - with social media users calling it 'disgusting' and accusing the chain of 'supporting terror'.

The number of people killed in Hamas's attacks on Israel has risen above 1,200, officials said. That includes 260 revellers gunned down at a music festival, and whole families - including children's and babies - who were massacred in a kibbutz.

Israeli air strikes on Gaza have killed over 1,000 Palestinians, according to the territory's health ministry.

A photo of the 'Boycott Israel' sign in a Lush store on Henry Street in Dublin was shared to social media yesterday afternoon.

The company, which has 951 stores in 52 countries and calls itself 'the overly friendly cosmetics shop' in its Twitter bio, is now facing a huge backlash, with some customers saying they'll no longer shop there.

 

[Buckeye]

Those people who had nothing to do with the attack will be used as shields by Hamas.
They are known to hide behind schools, hospitals, etc. because they know others value innocent lives, while Hamas, obviously, does not.

Sorry, but every Palestinian shares the blame for this atrocious attack. Closing your eyes to what is happening does not absolve you of blame. We are told the planning has been going on for 2 years. And those rocket launchers are hard to miss.

 

[Murrmurr]

Look at the pro-demonstrations taking place across the world, especially in Western countries, in support of Hamas.

Watching the news, it appears they may already be here in the Western countries. Could we actually be looking at not if something happens, but when?

At a pro-Palestinian demonstration in the US, a member of the Party for Socialism and Liberation explained, “We’re here because we think everyone in the United States is funding Israeli apartheid.”

She obviously doesn't know what she's talking about.

For one thing, Israel has exceptional military capabilities and a sound economy and doesn't need funding from anyone in the US.

For another, there's a difference between apartheid and segregation.

Believe it or not, Israel is a diverse country. But in areas within Israel that have a history of serious and/or repeated ethnically-charged issues and conflicts, it does indeed keep Palestinian residents separate from Jewish residents for the safety of both.

The Israeli gov't knows this isn't ideal, but they've tried other measures and they haven't solved the problem.

 

[TabbyAnn]

Watching the news, it appears they may already be here in the Western countries. Could we actually be looking at not if something happens, but when?

After 9/11, how could anyone not notice they’re already here?? I suppose because of all the different names they call themselves such as Hamas, Taliban, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Boca Haram, Palestinians, Islamic Jihad, Muslim Brotherhood, etc. etc. They have a mosque in every major city, some with luxurious guest quarters to house international Muslims travelling here from other countries. Some of them may already be lounging at the mosque in Washington, D.C. Although at this late date I don’t see how any others could get out of Gaza on those little bicycle powered planes they used to fly across the Israeli border on.

 

[Naturally]

Just before the start of the Yom Kippur War, Prime Minister Golda Meir hemmed uncertainly for a few moments but then came to a clear decision. All the intelligence indicated an attack was imminent, the Israeli's watched the Egyptian and Syrian troop movements masked as just another training exercise by them. But, there would be no preemptive strike. Israel might be needing American assistance soon and it was imperative that it would not be blamed for starting the war. 'If we strike first, we won't get help from anybody,' she said.

I'm sure the chatter was out there a few weeks/months ago, unfortunately no one likely knew to what extent Hamas intended to infiltrate and attack. But now that Hamas struck and is known worldwide as the aggressor, it certainly frees up Israel to act accordingly and with justification on the world stage.

To speak on another point of Palestinians being taken in by Jordan or Egypt - after the 1948 war, the Palestinians were given Jordanian citizenship. Twenty years later, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan was extremely worried the Palestinians were going to outnumber their own home borne citizens, and start causing issues on the terrorist and political front. The Jordanians stripped their citizenship leaving them "stateless". They didn't want them because they were troublemakers - everyone in the region knew this.

Look at the Palestinian protests in the USA, we have so many blocks of these folks, excited and celebrating the deaths of women and children, it's what they grew up with and accept.

Look at the problems with the middle east "refugees" that have created settlements in Paris, London, Minneapolis and other cities around the world.

Moving them and embedding them into civil societies that have long moved past the lives they've lived under ancient terrorist rule has made little or no difference.

Even Egypt knows it's not a smart move, it's why they closed their borders. None of the Arab states want these people crossing their borders. They are useful as pawns but not so much as assimilated citizens as expected.

I would bet the Palestinians / Hamas are thinking about how / when to retaliate. Prevention is the best cure - no Hamas, no retaliatory response.

The mid east regional history is an exceptionally fun rabbit hole of fascinating reading from the Ottoman Empire, the Balfour Declaration, immigration, and all of the subsequent wars. To understand it all requires taking the context from the minuscule area millennium ago, to the tribal histories, to the regional powers, to their standing on the world stage.

As troubling as all of this is, we are absolutely living and witnessing history being made that will long be written and talked about.

"We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We can not forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us." -- Golda Meir, 1957

 

[Brookswood]

interesting coverage of This mess by DW and France24.

 

[bingo]

the Palestinians have made no attempt in the many years they've been warring...to improve the land they already had...no attempt to farm...graze...etc...only teaching their children to hate

 

[Myrtle]

Look at the pro-demonstrations taking place across the world, especially in Western countries, in support of Hamas.

Watching the news, it appears they may already be here in the Western countries. Could we actually be looking at not if something happens, but when?

Yes, they are here. Some have been identified at the southern border but millions of undocumented have crossed into the US since 2021.

There are also terrorist supporters in Congress. All House members had a classified briefing today.
Politics are supposed to be off limits here so I will not go further.

As you said, Lilac, there have been pro Hamas demonstrations in some of our large cities and universities and there will be more.

 

[Murrmurr]

Look at the pro-demonstrations taking place across the world, especially in Western countries, in support of Hamas.

Watching the news, it appears they may already be here in the Western countries. Could we actually be looking at not if something happens, but when?

You can bet that known members of Hamas in the US are being watched.

But it's not like they proclaim their membership or admit to being part of any Hamas activities before they come into the US. And it isn't illegal in the US to attend rallies, protests, and demonstrations no matter what they're about. People here have a right to do that even before they become citizens...even if they're just visiting, for that matter.

 

[Warrigal]

It *is* "something new." It's not a "war"... they are beheading babies. It doesn't matter who it's between or whether it's a proxy war. This is a different kind of evil. This is not a war.

I believe that the north of Western Australia was considered and declined as a possibility for a Jewish homeland.

Did anyone ask our indigenous Australians about this?

 

[Warrigal]

It *is* "something new." It's not a "war"... they are beheading babies. It doesn't matter who it's between or whether it's a proxy war. This is a different kind of evil. This is not a war.

The word is barbarism.

 

[Naturally]

Right now someone is devising a tactical operation for a full ground invasion of Gaza to destroy Hamas political and war fighting capability. That is the publicly stated objective. A massive obstacle to success is the dense civilian population. I do not think their game plan is killing their way through civilians. Aside from moral objections, such acts would risk necessary sustained US logistical support. However, precision airstrike alone is insufficient.

I guess I’m trying to isolate and analyze the tactical problem and assuming there are imposed political constraints regarding acceptable collateral. And tactically, this is a nightmare.

For now Israel can lay siege to Gaza, the water, power, food, medical are all cut off, they don't have to fire a bullet, just keep taking out known Hamas locations. The people know it's coming, Hamas knows it's coming, and likely Hamas is stocking up these places with women, children and the infirm so they will have images for social media of the "mean Israelis", which is part of the plan, to try to turn the shock from Hamas to Israel as the press turns on them with articles about killing kids, women and other non combatants in Gaza.

Not sure there is a good solution, which is part of why this act was perpetrated, everyone knows Hamas is a barbaric terrorist evil organization of zealots and crusaders, the actions they took are not surprising, disgusting yes, surprising no. Palestinians dancing in the streets around the world rejoicing in the Hamas barbaric acts are not helping the cause either.

It's an impossible situation, brought about by psychopathic savages who absolutely need to be removed from the face of the Earth, but they hide behind women and children. I don't have an answer, but I know what is going to be done, and in it, innocent will die. And as always from time immortal, all that will be left is mourning the innocent unfortunate on both sides.

There is no easy solution. Other documented measures have been tried for decades and exhausted.

Long after the resulting tent city to come, is gone from Gaza, what will be built? No more hate, one can hope.

 

[Lilac]

After 9/11, how could anyone not notice they’re already here?? I suppose because of all the different names they call themselves such as Hamas, Taliban, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Boca Haram, Palestinians, Islamic Jihad, Muslim Brotherhood, etc. etc. They have a mosque in every major city, some with luxurious guest quarters to house international Muslims travelling here from other countries. Some of them may already be lounging at the mosque in Washington, D.C. Although at this late date I don’t see how any others could get out of Gaza on those little bicycle powered planes they used to fly across the Israeli border on.

TabbyAnn, you quoted my reply in thread #233 that was in response to a item/question that Old Salt had in his thread #199. Probably could have written it better, but I am & have been aware they are here no matter what name they go by.

 

[Rakaia]

@Warrigal Given the time frame I'm sure that the local Aboriginal population got no consideration whatsoever. Conjecture as you will how that might have ended, double displacement.

 

[hollydolly]

Israeli military says babies WERE beheaded, and a coroner has confirmed how they died as IDF post images of 'ISIS flags left at kibbutz by Hamas terrorists'​

Here is the link...I cannot post this...it's too upsetting to show on the forum... be warned before you click on the link there's graphic detail of babies with soldiers who are sobbing at the sight of their little bodies
This is the most evil act I've ever seen... Israeli military says babies WERE beheaded by Hamas