Israel Has Declared War after Unprecedented Hamas Attack

[hollydolly]

I'm not going to paste this story on the forum, it's too harrowing, I'll leave the link for anyone who wants to read it...

Horrific details of Hamas massacre emerge

 

[hollydolly]

Journalists who attended an IDF screening of a 45-minute-long montage of Hamas murdering, torturing and abducting Israeli civilians have told of the horrors with which they were confronted.

The lengthy compilation, pieced together from material recorded by Hamas gunmen on bodycams and smartphones, was shown by the IDF to a closed pool of journalists in Tel Aviv yesterday.

One Breitbart journalist said audience members began weeping as they sat in their chairs, while others whimpered 'make it stop' after a matter of minutes.

'There is no moment of redemption in the footage,' he said.

'After the video was done, we were allowed to go outside to retrieve our equipment... I had to sit down. I leaned against a wall and cried.'

Another journalist for The Atlantic said some audience members were heard retching and heaving - a violent, involuntary response to the level of evil and gore on display.

'I certainly hope I never see any of the extra footage again,' he wrote.

By all accounts, the footage was stuffed with clip after clip of civilians being shot, stabbed, tortured and burned.

Their corpses were arranged for all to see - bound, gagged and riddled with bullet holes and knife wounds.

Others were decapitated with knives - and one pour soul was partially decapitated with a garden hoe as he lay cradling a bullet wound in his stomach.

And one young girl was seen hiding under a desk, waiting as the terrorists decided what her fate would be. Moments later they decided to gun her down from point-blank range.

The full unedited footage will not be shared with the public, Israel says, unless all of the families of those killed within view it and give permission, meaning it is unlikely the whole clip will ever be released to the world.

Journalists tell of the horrors seen in unedited Hamas terror footage

 

[Myrtle]

Actually I don’t think this thread is all that contentious now. It may have been at one time.

I don’t believe there is or ever has been anything that Israel could do, or could have ever done, to prevent the outrageous hatred of the terrorists. The only thing that will satisfy the terrorists and the countries that harbor them is the extinction of every last Jew on the planet. They have said that so why the confusion?

We are not 20 yr olds here. We have all lived a long time and presumably have learned something from world events. So I simply do not understand all the people saying they are so confused and can’t tell the difference between Israel and Hamas.

Hamas is the elected government of Palestine. Palestine is Hamas and Hamas is Palestine. Not every person there sneaks across a border and beheads babies but a country is identified with and by it’s government.

 

[TabbyAnn]

And maybe Islam doesn't condemn violence in every form. I only know for sure that Buddhism does, word-for-word. And like a lot of religions, Islam is riddled with contradictions. Like, you're prohibited from slapping your neighbor across the face, but you can do that to your wife ...and with the slightest provocation, or even imagined provocation. Only Allah has to believed she deserved it.

Yes, the teachings of the Buddha and the teachings of Jesus are similar. Both are self-improvement courses aimed at improving oneself - not at controlling others. The big difference between Islam and other world religions is that Islam focuses so much on controlling others.

The Quran contains the violent rules of engagement for war and a complete set of harsh civilian laws governing everything from inheritance to marriage, and a list of punishments Muslims are to administer to those who break these laws. It's a government all packaged up and ready to go. It's this government Muslim Jihadis seek to impose on others.

 

[Tish]

"US areas in Syria and Iraq " ??? Since when did the USA have "areas in Iraq ??? Clarify please ?

U.S. Bases

 

[Devi]

Again, this is why you don't disarm your populace. For Israelis, it's an even crazier idea, given the attitude of all of the countries around them. You make sure your people are able to defend themselves.

Bear in mind that some of those folks are coming over our porous southern U.S. border. But we're not all standing around with no way to defend ourselves.

 

[Tish]

Again, this is why you don't disarm your populace. For Israelis, it's an even crazier idea, given the attitude of all of the countries around them. You make sure your people are able to defend themselves.

Bear in mind that some of those folks are coming over our porous southern U.S. border. But we're not all standing around with no way to defend ourselves.

I agree with you, I do think all Israelites are armed with the exception of the Orthodox Jews, as they all do their 3 years in the IDF and are on reserve call until the age of 49.

 

[TabbyAnn]

I don’t believe there is or ever has been anything that Israel could do, or could have ever done, to prevent the outrageous hatred of the terrorists. The only thing that will satisfy the terrorists and the countries that harbor them is the extinction of every last Jew on the planet. They have said that so why the confusion?

We are not 20 yr olds here. We have all lived a long time and presumably have learned something from world events. So I simply do not understand all the people saying they are so confused and can’t tell the difference between Israel and Hamas.

Hamas is the elected government of Palestine. Palestine is Hamas and Hamas is Palestine. Not every person there sneaks across a border and beheads babies but a country is identified with and by it’s government.

I agree there is little or nothing Israel could do to prevent the hatred of the terrorists. The long history of Muslim violence predates the modern state of Israel. The Islamic theology that connects all these attacks is over a thousand years old. So Israel can’t be responsible for it. In the current conflict with Hamas, the founding charter of Hamas shown in the Atlantic article below shows Hamas had no interest in moderation, restraint, or negotiation in its genocidal intent toward Israel.

A wider view folks should take of the Hamas Charter is the intent to establish a theocratic Islamic state based on Islamic Law. This is common to all Muslim terrorist groups and was the basis for the 9/11 attack on the United States. The Quran contains the harsh rules of engagement for war, and the harsh rules for civilian life, and the harsh punishments for breaking the rules. It is a government all written out and packaged up and ready to go. And all Muslim terrorist groups want to deliver it to the world. And all Muslims support the Quran.

The effort to disconnect Islam from Islamic Jihad and to call all terrorist groups by different names in different Muslim countries is no doubt confusing to some people. But as you said, we are all old enough on here to start connecting the dots.

Article 1 of the Hamas Charter:
The complete destruction of Israel as an essential condition for the liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a theocratic state based on Islamic law (Sharia),

Understanding Hamas’s Genocidal Ideology

 

[Knight]

The effort to disconnect Islam from Islamic Jihad and to call all terrorist groups by different names in different Muslim countries is no doubt confusing to some people. But as you said, we are all old enough on here to start connecting the dots.

Old enough to question. Why if there are over 1 billion Muslims with a small fraction of them radical to the extreme that is on display against Israel don't the rest that claim to be a religion of peace stand up & expose those they claim are distorting Islam.

Could it be fear of retribution from radicals against their own?

 

[Lilac]

@Tish, have you ever heard of Bill Warner who wrote books on Islam. Someone sent me one of his YouTube videos a few years ago that was very interesting. You may want to take a look at them.

 

[TabbyAnn]

Old enough to question. Why if there are over 1 billion Muslims with a small fraction of them radical to the extreme that is on display against Israel don't the rest that claim to be a religion of peace stand up & expose those they claim are distorting Islam.

Because there’s not a small fraction who are radical to the extreme and distort Islam. All Muslims follow the same Quran and it’s all the same Islam. We don’t know how many of the 1 billion support terrorist activities. We know not all are combatants but we don’t know how many support those who are.

Every Muslim country supports a Muslim terrorist group and some support two or three. Gaza Muslims supported two terrorist groups - Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Even Muslims In non-Muslim countries support terrorist groups. American Muslims sent $12 million to Hamas before the FBI shut down their conduit.

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2008/november/hlf112508

 

[Rose65]

Mark Regev stands out as speaking clearly and strongly as top advisor to the Israeli prime minister. Among all the confusion I try to find clarity. The Israeli spokespersons seem calmest and in control.
Regev says oil is being used by Hammas in their weapons rather than for the people - this is why Israel is not allowing it through. Could this be true?

Only my view as a person trying to make sense of this appalling situation.

 

[Daisy99]

Mark Regev stands out as speaking clearly and strongly as top advisor to the Israeli prime minister. Among all the confusion I try to find clarity. The Israeli spokespersons seem calmest and in control.
Regev says oil is being used by Hammas in their weapons rather than for the people - this is why Israel is not allowing it through. Could this be true?

Only my view as a person trying to make sense of this appalling situation.

Oil is used as fuel to power the weapons, not put into the weapons.

 

[Rose65]

Oil is used as fuel to power the weapons, not put into the weapons.

You know what I meant! Apparently they use it for military purposes.

 

[Daisy99]

You know what I meant! Apparently they use it for military purposes.

Sorry, I wasn’t being snarky. I thought you meant they used it as an incendiary device.

 

[Rose65]

Sorry, I wasn’t being snarky. I thought you meant they used it as an incendiary device.

That's ok, I know. My fault for being unclear.

 

[Rose65]

I was thinking about the plight of animals in all this. I cannot imagine what's happening to people's beloved pets. The thought of bereaved dogs and cats wandering terrified and starving is tragic. What of zoos etc? Animals must suffer so much in all wars.
When I think of all the comforts I have and our dog has, my mind cannot take on board such scenarios.

 

[Naturally]

I was thinking about the plight of animals in all this. I cannot imagine what's happening to people's beloved pets. The thought of bereaved dogs and cats wandering terrified and starving is tragic. What of zoos etc? Animals must suffer so much in all wars.
When I think of all the comforts I have and our dog has, my mind cannot take on board such scenarios.

I highly doubt there are many pets affected. While cats are somewhat revered in Islamic teachings, dogs are pretty much considered unclean. When kept, dogs shouldn't be allowed in the house and kept only as guardians of home and or field. Anyone who keeps a dog indoors will lose one Qirat’s worth of good deeds per day.

When in the military and visiting Islamic countries, I don't recall seeing any pets. There were a few cats but they were publicly provided for (random bowls of food and water placed outside on the street) rather than individually owned and cared for.

--------- Pets in Islam – Complete Guide on What’s Allowed & What’s Not

 

[Myrtle]

I was thinking about the plight of animals in all this. I cannot imagine what's happening to people's beloved pets. The thought of bereaved dogs and cats wandering terrified and starving is tragic. What of zoos etc? Animals must suffer so much in all wars.
When I think of all the comforts I have and our dog has, my mind cannot take on board such scenarios.

There are a lot of links to stories about Israeli dogs killed by Hamas the night they crossed the border and some are probably duplicates. I will just post some titles and links for those who want to read the stories or see pictures and videos.

I heard that an animal rescue operation is working in Gaza. I have no link.

Proceed with care. Some photos are graphic:

Hamas barbarians butcher family dog, scorch bodies in bloody rampage: video​

Hamas barbarians butcher family dog, scorch bodies in bloody rampage: video

Hamas Gunmen Shoot Israeli Family’s Dog, Set Home on Fire​

Hamas Gunmen Shoot Israeli Family’s Dog, Set Home on Fire

Sickening moment Hamas terrorists gun down brave pet dog before setting fire to home​

MSN

 

[Rose65]

There are a lot of links to stories about Israeli dogs killed by Hamas the night they crossed the border and some are probably duplicates. I will just post some titles and links for those who want to read the stories or see pictures and videos.

I heard that an animal rescue operation is working in Gaza. I have no link.

Proceed with care. Some photos are graphic:

Hamas barbarians butcher family dog, scorch bodies in bloody rampage: video​

Hamas barbarians butcher family dog, scorch bodies in bloody rampage: video

Hamas Gunmen Shoot Israeli Family’s Dog, Set Home on Fire​

Hamas Gunmen Shoot Israeli Family’s Dog, Set Home on Fire

Sickening moment Hamas terrorists gun down brave pet dog before setting fire to home​

MSN

Thanks, I couldn't possibly bear to look but thanks.
This world really is full of pain.

 

[jimintoronto]

I highly doubt there are many pets affected. While cats are somewhat revered in Islamic teachings, dogs are pretty much considered unclean. When kept, dogs shouldn't be allowed in the house and kept only as guardians of home and or field. Anyone who keeps a dog indoors will lose one Qirat’s worth of good deeds per day.

When in the military and visiting Islamic countries, I don't recall seeing any pets. There were a few cats but they were publicly provided for (random bowls of food and water placed outside on the street) rather than individually owned and cared for.

--------- Pets in Islam – Complete Guide on What’s Allowed & What’s Not

Here in Toronto many of the Muslim taxi drivers refuse to allow any dog (Including seeing eye dogs for the blind ) into their vehicles. A number of them have had their taxi permits seized by the Taxi Commission for repeat offences of that nature. Some of the most extreme Muslims refuse to transport a passenger if they are carrying a case of beer or a bottle of wine with them. These are examples of the way in which they attempt to enforce their religion on others. JimB.

 

[Rose65]

The family of an Al Jazeera journalist have been killed - his wife and children. To see this man's agony has made me cry. Up until now I have been too numb about it all.
Yet it is only the beginning as Israel is poised for a ground invasion. Nobody can stop this.
It is now just mass slaughter.

 

[Warrigal]

Because there’s not a small fraction who are radical to the extreme and distort Islam. All Muslims follow the same Quran and it’s all the same Islam. We don’t know how many of the 1 billion support terrorist activities. We know not all are combatants but we don’t know how many support those who are.

Every Muslim country supports a Muslim terrorist group and some support two or three. Gaza Muslims supported two terrorist groups - Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Even Muslims In non-Muslim countries support terrorist groups. American Muslims sent $12 million to Hamas before the FBI shut down their conduit.

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2008/november/hlf112508

I try to imagine myself on other people's shoes and I don't find it surprising that money is donated to groups that we regard as terrorists.

I remember that during the troubles in Northern Ireland, some Americans and Australians sent money to support Sinn Fein. Ex-pats with relatives in the "old country" do not forget the land of their birth, or of their forefathers. My forefathers were quick to enlist in wars in South Africa and the Middle East to fight for the British Empire even though none of them had ever set foot in England.

 

[Devi]

Yet it is only the beginning as Israel is poised for a ground invasion. Nobody can stop this because what is happening is unforgivable on both sides.
The reasons surely no longer matter because it is now just mass slaughter.

I would say that, for Israel, it's a matter of survival. If they don't fight back, they'll be gone — that's the stated intention of Hamas. Are you saying that they should just let themselves be slaughtered and wiped off the face of the earth?

 

[Murrmurr]

Here in Toronto many of the Muslim taxi drivers refuse to allow any dog (Including seeing eye dogs for the blind ) into their vehicles. A number of them have had their taxi permits seized by the Taxi Commission for repeat offences of that nature. Some of the most extreme Muslims refuse to transport a passenger if they are carrying a case of beer or a bottle of wine with them. These are examples of the way in which they attempt to enforce their religion on others. JimB.

Maybe it's more like they'd rather skip the fare to stay true to their faith.

I'm learning today about the CCPs covert involvement in the conflict in Israel. It's pretty interesting. The CCP is hoping this will become a global conflict. In fact, they're doing what they can to make that happen. Part of their plan to invade Taiwan.