God has a plan. An observation and a question.

Religious fanatics want people to switch off their own minds, ignore the evidence and blindly follow a holy book based upon private ‘revelation.’
- Richard Dawkins

I thought his was an interesting article regarding Richard Dawson...Posted in 2020

Richard Dawson Changes His Tune on Christianity

Only a few years ago, the aggressive “New Atheist” movement was on the march, with rhetorical brawlers like Christopher Hitchens and renowned biologists like Richard Dawkins leading the charge against religion and the last vestiges of Christian faith in the West. Religion, Hitchens famously stated, “poisons everything,” and could only be considered, at best, humanity’s “first and worst” attempt to solve existential questions. If these cobwebbed superstitions could be blasted away by the refreshing winds of reason and the Enlightenment, a fundamentally better society would rise from the ashes—or so the thinking went.

But as Christianity fades further and further into our civilization’s rear-view mirror, many intelligent atheists are beginning to realize that the Enlightenment may have only achieved success because it wielded influence on a Christian culture. In a truly secular society, in which men and women live their lives beneath empty heavens and expect to be recycled rather than resurrected, there is no solid moral foundation for good and evil. Anti-theists like Christopher Hitchens mocked and reviled the idea that mankind needed God to know right from wrong, but scarcely two generations into our Great Secularization and we no longer even know male from female.

It would be interesting to know how the late Hitchens would have responded to the insanities that have proliferated since his passing, and whether he would have come to realize, as some of his similarly godless friends have, that one does not need to find Christianity believable to realize that it is necessary. Douglas Murray, who has taken to occasionally calling himself a “Christian atheist,” has publicly argued with Hitchens’ fellow “Horseman of the Apocalypse” Sam Harris over whether a society based on Enlightenment values is even possible without Christianity. Harris holds out hope that such a society is possible. Murray is sympathetic, but skeptical.

Increasingly, Murray admitted, he believes the atheist project to be a hopeless one. When he joined me on my show recently to discuss his latest book The Madness of Crowds, he reiterated that he believes that in the absence of the secularist’s ability to hammer out ethics on fundamental issues such as the sanctity of life, we may be forced to recognize that returning to faith is the best option available to us. There is a very real possibility, he noted, that our modern concept of human rights, based as it is on a Judeo-Christian foundation, may very well outlive Christianity by only a few short years. Cut off from the source, our conception of human rights may shrivel and die very quickly, leaving us fumbling about in a thick and impenetrable darkness.

Without the Christian underpinnings of our society, it will be up to us to decide what is right and wrong, and as our current culture wars clearly illustrate, our civilization will tear itself apart before it regains consensus. Many optimistic atheists recently believed that once God was dethroned and banished, we could finally live as adults and get on with the utopian project of creating a society based on faith in ourselves. These skeptics were unfortunately skeptical about everything except the goodness of humanity, despite the fact that they had no metaphysical or even Darwinian basis for this easily disprovable assumption. Jordan Peterson’s phenomenal popularity is partially based on his recognition that people are not generally good, and that the past century proves this with the blood of millions.

It is the abject failure of this thesis that is leading some prominent atheists to begrudgingly admit that perhaps Christianity was more necessary than they thought. As recently as 2015, Richard Dawkins (author of The God Delusion) was arguing that children needed to be protected from the religious views of their parents, and made a series of alarming comments regarding the rights of parents to educate their children in the tenets of their religious faith. By 2018, however, Dawkins was warning that the “benign Christian religion” might be replaced by something decidedly less benign, and that perhaps we should take a step back to discuss what might happen if the evangelical secularists are successful in destroying or banishing Christianity. Other atheists and agnostics, from Bill Maher to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, have echoed Dawkins’ sentiments. This is a radical shift in only a handful of years—and the fact that atheists are sounding the alarm should be a warning to Christians about the consequences of our ongoing secularization.

Dawkins has now come out and repudiated his previous belief that Christianity should be banished from society even more firmly. In fact, he told The Times, ending religion—once his fervent goal—would be a terrible idea, because it would “give people a license to do really bad things.” Despite the fact that Dawkins has long argued that the very idea of the God of the Bible being necessary as a basis for morality is both ridiculous and offensive, he appears to be backtracking. “People may feel free to do bad things because they feel God is no longer watching them,” he said, citing the example of security cameras as a deterrent to shoplifting. One wonders if he has heard Douglas Murray remind people that the Soviets murdered their millions in the firm belief that there was no Judge waiting for them when the killing was over.

Dawkins discusses these ideas further in his latest book, Outgrowing God. “Whether irrational or not, it does, unfortunately, seem plausible that, if somebody sincerely believes God is watching his every move, he might be more likely to be good,” he confessed begrudgingly. “I must say that I hate that idea. I want to believe that humans are better than that. I’d like to believe I’m honest whether anyone is watching or not.” While this realization is not a good enough reason for him to believe in God, Dawkins says, he now realizes that the affirmation of God’s existence does benefit society. For example, Dawkins admitted, “It might bring the crime right down.”

Dawkins’ conversion to the belief that Christianity is good—and perhaps even necessary—for Western civilization to function in harmony is nothing short of mind boggling. Dawkins has been one of secularism’s most intolerant fundamentalists, a man who believed that parents should be denied the right to pass on their faith and that the government should actively side with the godless over the faithful. In a few short years, he is changing his tune. Human beings, he seems to have recognized, cannot be counted on to be automatically good and to operate in the spirit of harmony and solidarity that he and his fellow New Atheists treasure. And absent the inherent goodness of humanity, how can we count on people not to tear apart a civilization built by men and women of faith?

The answer is a simple one: We need God.


By Jonathan Van Maren
https://thebridgehead.ca/2020/07/14/richard-dawkins-changes-his-tune-on-christianity/
2020
 

I thought his was an interesting article regarding Richard Dawson...Posted in 2020

Richard Dawson Changes His Tune on Christianity

Only a few years ago, the aggressive “New Atheist” movement was on the march, with rhetorical brawlers like Christopher Hitchens and renowned biologists like Richard Dawkins leading the charge against religion and the last vestiges of Christian faith in the West. Religion, Hitchens famously stated, “poisons everything,” and could only be considered, at best, humanity’s “first and worst” attempt to solve existential questions. If these cobwebbed superstitions could be blasted away by the refreshing winds of reason and the Enlightenment, a fundamentally better society would rise from the ashes—or so the thinking went.

But as Christianity fades further and further into our civilization’s rear-view mirror, many intelligent atheists are beginning to realize that the Enlightenment may have only achieved success because it wielded influence on a Christian culture. In a truly secular society, in which men and women live their lives beneath empty heavens and expect to be recycled rather than resurrected, there is no solid moral foundation for good and evil. Anti-theists like Christopher Hitchens mocked and reviled the idea that mankind needed God to know right from wrong, but scarcely two generations into our Great Secularization and we no longer even know male from female.

It would be interesting to know how the late Hitchens would have responded to the insanities that have proliferated since his passing, and whether he would have come to realize, as some of his similarly godless friends have, that one does not need to find Christianity believable to realize that it is necessary. Douglas Murray, who has taken to occasionally calling himself a “Christian atheist,” has publicly argued with Hitchens’ fellow “Horseman of the Apocalypse” Sam Harris over whether a society based on Enlightenment values is even possible without Christianity. Harris holds out hope that such a society is possible. Murray is sympathetic, but skeptical.

Increasingly, Murray admitted, he believes the atheist project to be a hopeless one. When he joined me on my show recently to discuss his latest book The Madness of Crowds, he reiterated that he believes that in the absence of the secularist’s ability to hammer out ethics on fundamental issues such as the sanctity of life, we may be forced to recognize that returning to faith is the best option available to us. There is a very real possibility, he noted, that our modern concept of human rights, based as it is on a Judeo-Christian foundation, may very well outlive Christianity by only a few short years. Cut off from the source, our conception of human rights may shrivel and die very quickly, leaving us fumbling about in a thick and impenetrable darkness.

Without the Christian underpinnings of our society, it will be up to us to decide what is right and wrong, and as our current culture wars clearly illustrate, our civilization will tear itself apart before it regains consensus. Many optimistic atheists recently believed that once God was dethroned and banished, we could finally live as adults and get on with the utopian project of creating a society based on faith in ourselves. These skeptics were unfortunately skeptical about everything except the goodness of humanity, despite the fact that they had no metaphysical or even Darwinian basis for this easily disprovable assumption. Jordan Peterson’s phenomenal popularity is partially based on his recognition that people are not generally good, and that the past century proves this with the blood of millions.

It is the abject failure of this thesis that is leading some prominent atheists to begrudgingly admit that perhaps Christianity was more necessary than they thought. As recently as 2015, Richard Dawkins (author of The God Delusion) was arguing that children needed to be protected from the religious views of their parents, and made a series of alarming comments regarding the rights of parents to educate their children in the tenets of their religious faith. By 2018, however, Dawkins was warning that the “benign Christian religion” might be replaced by something decidedly less benign, and that perhaps we should take a step back to discuss what might happen if the evangelical secularists are successful in destroying or banishing Christianity. Other atheists and agnostics, from Bill Maher to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, have echoed Dawkins’ sentiments. This is a radical shift in only a handful of years—and the fact that atheists are sounding the alarm should be a warning to Christians about the consequences of our ongoing secularization.

Dawkins has now come out and repudiated his previous belief that Christianity should be banished from society even more firmly. In fact, he told The Times, ending religion—once his fervent goal—would be a terrible idea, because it would “give people a license to do really bad things.” Despite the fact that Dawkins has long argued that the very idea of the God of the Bible being necessary as a basis for morality is both ridiculous and offensive, he appears to be backtracking. “People may feel free to do bad things because they feel God is no longer watching them,” he said, citing the example of security cameras as a deterrent to shoplifting. One wonders if he has heard Douglas Murray remind people that the Soviets murdered their millions in the firm belief that there was no Judge waiting for them when the killing was over.

Dawkins discusses these ideas further in his latest book, Outgrowing God. “Whether irrational or not, it does, unfortunately, seem plausible that, if somebody sincerely believes God is watching his every move, he might be more likely to be good,” he confessed begrudgingly. “I must say that I hate that idea. I want to believe that humans are better than that. I’d like to believe I’m honest whether anyone is watching or not.” While this realization is not a good enough reason for him to believe in God, Dawkins says, he now realizes that the affirmation of God’s existence does benefit society. For example, Dawkins admitted, “It might bring the crime right down.”

Dawkins’ conversion to the belief that Christianity is good—and perhaps even necessary—for Western civilization to function in harmony is nothing short of mind boggling. Dawkins has been one of secularism’s most intolerant fundamentalists, a man who believed that parents should be denied the right to pass on their faith and that the government should actively side with the godless over the faithful. In a few short years, he is changing his tune. Human beings, he seems to have recognized, cannot be counted on to be automatically good and to operate in the spirit of harmony and solidarity that he and his fellow New Atheists treasure. And absent the inherent goodness of humanity, how can we count on people not to tear apart a civilization built by men and women of faith?

The answer is a simple one: We need God.


By Jonathan Van Maren
https://thebridgehead.ca/2020/07/14/richard-dawkins-changes-his-tune-on-christianity/
2020

I have no idea what you are rambling on about Lara.
 
Last edited:
The World's faithful account for 83% of the global population; the great majority of these fall under twelve main religions and many more lesser known ones.

The Creator did not create any religions… they are all man-made but the amazing thing is they all seem to have one goal … a path to God.

All religions deserve to be recognized and respected. . What does it matter that we take different roads, so long as we reach the same goal?

I believe in a God that is all-encompassing and larger than we can ever imagine.
How could such a God be confined to a single religion or spiritual path?

I believe in God and pray to God and I need no middlemen… or any particular religion.

You go your way, and everyone else will go their’s.

Peace and love to all...
 

a4979cc0860db4aecce8da0f07dd08e3.jpg
 
I know this is an old thread but I feel obliged to make a brief comment for whomever it might hopefully be of some benefit. My thought is that early on in the Bible it is made clear that the Creator is to be put first in our lives above all else. Then later, in what we call the New Testament, Yeshua/Jesus clarifies this instruction by telling us that God (I Am That I Am - the kingdom of God - i.e. heaven) is within us. So where do we find answers to help us understand purpose and plan? Look to your soul. What you seek is who and what you are. Find the light that is within you and let it shine. And above all... Love one another
 
The World's faithful account for 83% of the global population; the great majority of these fall under twelve main religions and many more lesser known ones.

The Creator did not create any religions… they are all man-made but the amazing thing is they all seem to have one goal … a path to God.

All religions deserve to be recognized and respected. . What does it matter that we take different roads, so long as we reach the same goal?

I believe in a God that is all-encompassing and larger than we can ever imagine.
How could such a God be confined to a single religion or spiritual path?

I believe in God and pray to God and I need no middlemen… or any particular religion.

You go your way, and everyone else will go their’s.

Peace and love to all...
Well said. I like this very much Jamala, and would like to add for consideration a short poem by my favorite poet:

seeker of truth

follow no path
all paths lead where

truth is here
 
As an atheist, I have a problem with this "God has a plan for you" thing. But I'm not you. You don't get what you believe in out of a book, or others. It's what's in your head. If what you believe is your truth, then you have to live with that truth.
 
What you seek is who and what you are. Find the light that is within you and let it shine. And above all... Love one another
Where do the mentally challenged find the light if they don't have the mental capacity to do so?

The abjectly poor that have no hope of ever having good health or even enough to eat? Do you really expect them to think this was their plan?

Then as an example this.

There are about 400,000 children in 10,000 CCIs across India. They are there for many reasons – they are abandoned, orphaned, or have run away from home to escape horrible situations. Less than 3000 get adopted every year.Sep 2, 2023.

Do you really think there is a light within them shining because this is their life plan?

I understand your thinking comforts you but not everyone can sit in a warm house.
 
Ultimately, full justice - especially for the large and rich - is a forlorn hope. There's no ultimate judge, no great arbiter. All we have is the here an now. No punishment will happen in "the next life". Death is the great equalizer. There's no plan, no great objective. Justice not delivered in the here and now is justice never delivered.

Without an afterlife, we must administer justice in the here and now. No-one with a belief in the afterlife ever has a chance to come back and admit they were wrong. Dead is dead. An ultimate repercussion is a tale told to those without, or the harmed, to make them feel good about their circumstances.
 
I'm sure you've heard it said, "God is love." If that is true then it must also equate that Love is God. And therefore also that where love is, God is. That's my story and I'm sticking to it 💞
"C'mon people now
Smile on your brother
Everybody get together
Try and love one another
Right now........."
 
I'm sure you've heard it said, "God is love." If that is true then it must also equate that Love is God. And therefore also that where love is, God is. That's my story and I'm sticking to it 💞
How do you explain the multiple bible verses about God's vengeance & God's wrath?

The word love is over used. Or at least when it comes to starving homeless all over the world the word love doesn't fill empty stomachs.

Or could it be that the God you think has a plan for everyone actually doesn't love all humanity? That suffering is what they are condemned to endure.
 
How do you explain the multiple bible verses about God's vengeance & God's wrath?

The word love is over used. Or at least when it comes to starving homeless all over the world the word love doesn't fill empty stomachs.

Or could it be that the God you think has a plan for everyone actually doesn't love all humanity? That suffering is what they are condemned to endure.

Or innocent children killed. Or innocent children killed with our tax dollars. Or disease, or for the finality of life.

If you were a God, and could create anything, would you really build this stuff into your creation? Isn't "free will" simply a cop out?
 
more to the point, I want to know how did they get the Polar bears from the Arctic, penguins from Antarctica and the koalas & Kangaroos from Australia to come to the Middle East? And after the flood was over a year later , how did those animals get back there?
Actually, the flood story is common to many cultures predating the Hebrew scriptures by many thousands of years.
 
The article posted in the OP is yet another - third time today - biased writing without much foundation.

Firstly, the idea that Dawkins supports Christianity is preposterous.

But I'll stick with one quote, rather than dissecting the entire thing.

"Without the Christian underpinnings of our society, it will be up to us to decide what is right and wrong, and as our current culture wars clearly illustrate, our civilization will tear itself apart before it regains consensus."

No. Society would have found equilibrium many generations ago. We know what dying is, we know what killing is. We know right from wrong. Society would have set its rules a long, long time ago.
 
How do you explain the multiple bible verses about God's vengeance & God's wrath?

The word love is over used. Or at least when it comes to starving homeless all over the world the word love doesn't fill empty stomachs.

Or could it be that the God you think has a plan for everyone actually doesn't love all humanity? That suffering is what they are condemned to endure.
I would explain those stories of vengeance and wrath as literary activity on the part of man within the scriptures. But it seems you have confused things I have said here with things others have said. I don't know if He/She/It/God has some master plan. I do see order in the universe, as well as randomness. Everything simply is as it is. If we see an opportunity to help others we should do it. I do see love as a more preferable choice than its opposite, and a choice likely to bring about more favorable outcomes in most any case than hate. Hate is like drinking poison.
 
I know this is an old thread but I feel obliged to make a brief comment for whomever it might hopefully be of some benefit. My thought is that early on in the Bible it is made clear that the Creator is to be put first in our lives above all else. Then later, in what we call the New Testament, Yeshua/Jesus clarifies this instruction by telling us that God (I Am That I Am - the kingdom of God - i.e. heaven) is within us. So where do we find answers to help us understand purpose and plan? Look to your soul. What you seek is who and what you are. Find the light that is within you and let it shine. And above all... Love one another
I agree, very well said. When I am confused, I line up my desires and thoughts with His Word.
 
yep but always in the same place right ?.. so my question still stands
Maybe, this all occurred when the earth had only one continent called Pangaea. All the flora and fauna were together until Pangaea started splitting apart and drifting away, taking the neighborhood critters with them who adapted and evolved after the flood in question.

495px-Snider-Pellegrini_Wegener_fossil_map.svg.png


Pangaea - Wikipedia
 
Last edited:
I'm pretty sure most people don't take everything in the bible literally. You'd have to be pretty stupid to do so as you point out. The stories are just to make a point.
I think what we may be talking about here is fundamentalism, a literal interpretation of scripture. I had to look it up:
1. A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.
2. An organized, militant Evangelical movement originating in the United States in the late 1800s and early 1900s in opposition to Protestant Liberalism and secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of Scripture.
Among the opposites of fundamentalism I found listed such terms as...
Forgiveness, Gentleness, Indulgence, Kindness, Patience, Forebearance, Lenience, Open-mindedness
 
The normal state of men & women in those days was to be married. Not being married would cause more comment than being married, which would require none. Not speaking of his marital state is more of an indication he was probably married.

There is no clear reason to suggest MM was a prostitute. That was another woman, not MM.
Jesus was a Jew. He was also often called Rabbi by his followers and even other Jews who were not so fond of him. Rabbis were not celibate, they were required to be married. Jewish opinion stands out clear and simple: Marriage is a duty, and celibacy a sin. “Be fruitful, and multiply” (Genesis 1: 28). Marriage with a view to that end is a duty incumbent upon every adult male Jew. Jewish law says that a single man who is past age 20 can be compelled by a rabbinic court to marry. The idea that Jesus was celibate is an idea which developed in the Roman church alongside the idea of his mother Mary's perpetual virginity.
 
I think lots of the world religions believe that the creator is inside the creation with us, that he made it around himself. He is a spirit inside us and we are all one to some degree. Heaven is a state more than a place.
Della, I love how you think. So many of your thoughts echo my own. Especially that the Creator is inside the creation, with us, inside us, and that we are all one in the Creator. And that heaven is a state (of consciousness, of being) rather than some place we might go to when we leave this earthly realm. Your words resonate with me. The kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:21
 


Back
Top