I go to church with my wife

1 John 4:8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

That is the ending and the beginning of all religions, is it not? But evangelicals rarely focus on this verse. They will throw 100 other verses at people first before they lead people to this one. Alas, if preachers and teachers focus on this verse, perhaps they will be out of a job? Where does the liturgy and catechism and all the many books written about Scripture go if they merely focus on this?
 
oldaunt said:
I understand that, but why do you feel the need to hammer at it constantly?
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Freedom of speech, besides that I am set on demystifying religious religiosity and the propaganda applied to maintain the status-quo at any cost.
 

As for this: IMO speculating, the reason Jesus needed Paul and used him so was because Jesus.....

If you believe that Jesus is God, the almighty, then HE DON'T NEED NO ONE. Jesus, as diety, doesn't even need anyone to even bring him a flask of water. He could make one: 🪄 Poof!

And your eloquent argument, I am not being sarcastic, I know you are really pondering these matters, your argument about WHY Paul and what did he say, and does it apply to today, are the WEEDS that so many Christians trample off into. They get lost in the weeds, as if we are all in seminary working to understand it because God is going to give us a grade when we get to those pearly gates? If you get an "A" and I get a "C" (because I sometimes swear like a truck driver.... I will be marked down for that), do you get a better section of heaven?

And the reason so many of us are concerned about these belief systems now is because they have seeped into our public policy. No matter how broadly or narrowly you define love and loving actions, go ahead and examine our public policy in America regarding housing and rents and then SHOW ME THE LOVE there. I don't see much.

There is a little love in public policy created by the so-called followers of Jesus, like Food Banks are a great example of love in action; and New York has a law that says any homeless person who asks for shelter has to get it, that's love in action. But now even in NY they are testing the boundaries of that law because they have run out of shelter space.

With so many rents now being 50% of income, how is that love? But I can promise you that a lot of those RE investors who own these rentals are attending services at houses of worship, if only 3 or 4 times a year.
 
VintageBetter said:
So many pastors I have heard over the years say that when a person experiences sorrow and trouble in their lives, that's "God" trying to beat them with a stick until they turn to Him. Doesn't matter if it's HUMANS doing the beating and being the weapons of torture - they just blame everything on GOD.
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The problem lies in the interpretation of god and the concept everyone envision the same thing as god. I don’t like Christianity because of the many variables describing the same thing. There is no oversight for what a person thinks and although the reference may be the same people’s ideas may not be the same.
 
Everybody has acquired beliefs. We believe what our minds imagine. IMO the problem lies in the person not being aware that they are constructing a belief system. They think the scenario really exits in the tangible world. That can, and most often does, lead to the plethora of disagreements that become more than just exchanging ideas. I think people should be honest enough to admit they have their beliefs because that is what they want. That is enough. This world will go up in smoke if we keep using God as the reason to kill each other.
 
VintageBetter said:
1 John 4:8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

That is the ending and the beginning of all religions, is it not? But evangelicals rarely focus on this verse. They will throw 100 other verses at people first before they lead people to this one. Alas, if preachers and teachers focus on this verse, perhaps they will be out of a job? Where does the liturgy and catechism and all the many books written about Scripture go if they merely focus on this?
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I have trouble with your hypothesis, how can god be love outside of the fact of being borned. Are you certain God loves you and to prove it, you were born. It is possible you and me are the result of parental intercourse without god’s consent? Do you think everything happens because god made it so?

Describe / explain god is love? How do you know?
 
Pepper said:
🎶🎵 Jesus loves me this I know 'cause the Bible tells me so 🎵🎶
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I don’t believe the bible. The whole love thing regarding Jesus can you tell a single incident that you know Jesus loves you?

the Bible, Jesus god are all heresy, no solid proof that the Bible is what it is said to be. People are told and reminded throughout their lives that the bible is the holy word of god, and they believe it so based on constant feeding and subjection to these thoughts in unison with other so called believers. Soon enough and over time these stories and commandments grow in a person for total control of said person.

It is subtle but it happens and people get crazy from the gospel’s.
 
Mr. Ed said:
I don’t believe the bible. The whole love thing regarding Jesus can you tell a single incident that you know Jesus loves you?

the Bible, Jesus god are all heresy, no solid proof that the Bible is what it is said to be. People are told and reminded throughout their lives that the bible is the holy word of god, and they believe it so based on constant feeding and subjection to these thoughts in unison with other so called believers. Soon enough and over time these stories and commandments grow in a person for total control of said person.

It is subtle but it happens and people get crazy from the gospel’s.
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Mr Ed, nobody's trying to make you believe something you don't want to believe. People who do believe want to share the happy feeling they have found with others. I know they can be a bit annoying at times, but I hope you can understand how they feel and forgive them their exuberance and excessive joy.

You seem to me to be struggling much with the idea that there might be something to this fantastic God/Love story. Perhaps you are a closet believer and just haven't found what you need yet to get you moving in a more mindful and heart felt direction.

In any case, be well, and be happy, and believe in whatever makes the most sense to you. You'll get to where you need to be. We all do, eventually, regardless what religion has to say about it.
 
sailormann said:
Mr Ed, nobody's trying to make you believe something you don't want to believe. People who do believe want to share the happy feeling they have found with others. I know they can be a bit annoying at times, but I hope you can understand how they feel and forgive them their exuberance and excessive joy.

You seem to me to be struggling much with the idea that there might be something to this fantastic God/Love story. Perhaps you are a closet believer and just haven't found what you need yet to get you moving in a more mindful and heart felt direction.

In any case, be well, and be happy, and believe in whatever makes the most sense to you. You'll get to where you need to be. We all do, eventually, regardless what religion has to say about it.
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Kindest thing anyone said to me
 
Dates back to childhood…unrest. I see Christianity differently now, by overcoming the fear of gods anger and reprocussion. It has been liberating not fearing to say what I think. Take away faith and Christianity crumbles. I’m not making fun of Christians I just don’t see why they believe according to their imagnination.
 
Mr. Ed said:
I don’t like labels, so why can’t I just be the guy on SF? I think people put too much emphasis on labels, that they fail to see the real person behind the label. If I claim to be a Christian it is automatically assumed I would act accordingly, but how does a christian act? If you examine the behaviors of christians today you would have a clear understand what christians are, only what they are said to be according to the Bible. Which I find to be propaganda in hope for a perfection that will never arrive to the diversity of humanity.
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That would make a powerful sermon. There should be a chapter in the Bible with some expectations of how Christians should act. I tell you this they should act like Jesus is watching them. They should act as the world is watching because they are. Why should anyone bother attending church if it's just a dog and pony show? If people leave church and act like heathens it's the very reason there called hypocrites.
 
sailormann said:
Do you follow the teachings of Jesus? Or have you chosen Paul as your Lord and Savior?
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Jesus is my Lord and Savior and Paul is a man chosen to help spread His message to the world.

I see no conflict between the two and I don't expect Paul, who was a man of his time and not a divine being, to have been able to predict societal changes 2000 years down the road.
 
Do you believe Jesus would say the. things Paul did about homosexuality? I don’t get it, if god is the creator who created all liife why create homosexuality? I think the royal court was homophobic.
 
oldaunt said:
"God" did not write the bible. Men, with an agenda, did, and it has been revised several times by more men. It is the word of men, not God.
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Yeah I know, the. scriptures were breathed by god but supposedly god’s. word just the same.
 
sailormann said:
In any case, be well, and be happy, and believe in whatever makes the most sense to you. You'll get to where you need to be. We all do, eventually, regardless what religion has to say about it.
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I like the way you think, I wish finding. answers were not as important to me but I am a seeker, always have been. I know about Christianity and what it did to me so I make an effort to discredit what I understand is wrong with it.
Most people don’t care anymore about rreligion, but I find the flaws of religion facsinating.
 
Mr. Ed said:
The problem lies in the interpretation of god and the concept everyone envision the same thing as god. I don’t like Christianity because of the many variables describing the same thing. There is no oversight for what a person thinks and although the reference may be the same people’s ideas may not be the same.
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I count myself as a Christian, but what I have come to believe after obersving many different pastors and preachers, is that many of them attribute to God whatever they experienced as children, especially from male authority figures in their lives. One of the meanest, coldest pastors I ever heard preach had a father who used coporal punishment on him. His father could be a mean SOB.

That pastor often taught any parts of the Bible that showed that God is a mean SOB, out to get us.

So, I agree with you. People bring their own stuff to any spiritual walk. They need to be aware of that or made aware of it, and then figure out what to do about it. Because our own lives and belief systems can cause us to err in our beliefs about the Almighty and the Universe. And of course, none of us will ever get there in this life. No matter what belief system you hold to, don't they all kind of universally agree that full enlightenment is impossible in this life?

Except the atheists. They say "this is it" and to stardust we shall return after death. Ah, but the stars are still mysterious, aren't they? So maybe even atheists are believing in a Universe still filled with mystery and unknowns? ;)
 
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Mr. Ed said:
I like the way you think, I wish finding. answers were not as important to me but I am a seeker, always have been. I know about Christianity and what it did to me so I make an effort to discredit what I understand is wrong with it.
Most people don’t care anymore about rreligion, but I find the flaws of religion facsinating.
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Separating truth from fiction can be a tricky proposition, but the heart knows the difference. I love Jesus but hate religion. Jesus spoke, embraced and embodied the truth. Other men who had a hand in writing the New Testament added to and took away from his message in an attempt to turn it into something they could own, control, and use for their own selfish ends. But the true message is still there, hidden amidst the tampering. Read it with an open mind and an open heart and you will see. Love is real. Just take care not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 

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