I go to church with my wife

VintageBetter said:
I count myself as a Christian, but what I have come to believe after obersving many different pastors and preachers, is that many of them attribute to God whatever they experienced as children, especially from male authority figures in their lives. One of the meanest, coldest pastors I ever heard preach had a father who used coporal punishment on him. His father could be a mean SOB.

That pastor often taught any parts of the Bible that showed that God is a mean SOB, out to get us.

So, I agree with you. People bring their own stuff to any spiritual walk. They need to be aware of that or made aware of it, and then figure out what to do about it. Because our own lives and belief systems can cause us to err in our beliefs about the Almighty and the Universe. And of course, none of us will ever get there in this life. No matter what belief system you hold to, don't they all kind of universally agree that full enlightenment is impossible in this life?

Except the atheists. They say "this is it" and to stardust we shall return after death. Ah, but the stars are still mysterious, aren't they? So maybe even atheists are believing in a Universe still filled with mystery and unknowns? ;)
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There is no way around it, the Great Mystery. Our perception of reality is limited. We are trying to understand something which is infinite with something that is finite. Enlightenment is not so much a matter knowing or understanding, or figuring out, as it is a matter of being and becoming, to merge with and become one with the truth. It is all right here and right now, as in the phrase that both John the Baptist and Jesus often used - the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it isn't real. Seek and you will find. And the truth will set you free.
 

Pepper said:
... It is just that their answer is not 'God.'
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There is also much difference between the dominant Middle Ages philosopher demanded dogma Christian "god" as in no limits omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience, and an otherwise ultimate intelligent races of ancient non-biological angelic entities lead by what we science primitives call God but with physical limits as I lean towards that exists within this Universe. One religious authorities create much endless dogma about, that god doesn't ever bother to "correct" because what they write gives angels such endless great laughs. :)
 

sailormann said:
love Jesus but hate religion.
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I have trouble with Jesus because of the whole father-son thing. My dad neglected his role as a parent and father. His excuse was my mother made him feel like a little boy by asking him to do things. He was a little rebel boy whose only concern was his public image. Christmas and Easter are hard for me because of the. father I never had.
 
I believe something, call it god, is responsible for the world and universe like a manager or caretaker, that maintains equilibrium between positive and negative poles. For every occurrence there is counter-occurrence to establish/reestablish balance. Negative energy counteracts positive energy thereby maintaining balance and stability. Everything has two sides, one cannot exist without the other. heaven cannot exist without hell, the devil cannot exist without god.
 
Mr. Ed said:
I believe something, call it god, is responsible for the world and universe like a manager or caretaker, that maintains equilibrium between positive and negative poles. For every occurrence there is counter-occurrence to establish/reestablish balance. Negative energy counteracts positive energy thereby maintaining balance and stability. Everything has two sides, one cannot exist without the other. heaven cannot exist without hell, the devil cannot exist without god.
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So, you are saying that heaven and hell exist, or, IF they did, they must exist together? Which one?
 
Mr. Ed said:
I have trouble with Jesus because of the whole father-son thing. My dad neglected his role as a parent and father. His excuse was my mother made him feel like a little boy by asking him to do things. He was a little rebel boy whose only concern was his public image. Christmas and Easter are hard for me because of the. father I never had.
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I know that had to have been very hard for you growing up, and even now the wounds have not healed. It's impossible to say why some men behave as they do. It's especially hard to understand how a man could neglect his own family, and his own son, but some people have deep problems of their own they struggle with and are compelled by.
I hope someday you can forgive the old guy for not being a better man and a better father. I'm guessing he's probably gone from this world by now but he lives on in your memory. It may not have been enough but I'm sure he did the best he could do at the time. However, I don't see why you would blame Jesus or anyone else for your dad's failure as a human being.
 
I don’t blame Jesus, god or the holy three. The truth is I don’t believe in faith, faith is a made up image of something or someone. There is no solid evidence that the Bible is true. Thiis includes salvation or sin for that matter. Sin is why humans need god, therefore the church, religion and god is needed for forgiveness? It is convient that god, sin and religion go hand in hand. Religion provides the service of forgiveness providing you follow the rules of redemption.

I don’t know how the world and universe was created, for lack of information let’s assume god is the creator. I understand this, what I don’t understand is faith. Faith in nothing more than imagining the Bible and Jesus are real, but there not, their in your mind and imagination.
 
Mr. Ed said:
I have a question about atheism? Do atheist believe in the devil, heaven or hell? It seems not believing in god also should include heaven, hell good guy/ bad guy?
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In my experience no, athiests do not believe in the devil, heaven or hell. It is a myth that athiests are "devil worshipers".
 
You can't live without faith. Without it the uncertainty of life would be so overwhelming it would drive you crazy.
When you flip a switch you have faith that the lights will come on. When you put one foot in front of the other you have faith that you will go somewhere. When you wake up in the morning you have faith that you will live for another day. You have faith that when you perform certain actions certain reactions will occur.
Your lack of faith in a divine being and a higher purpose are the result of a lifetime of disappointments. Or perhaps you choose to deny your faith for fear of disappoinment. As you believe, so be it unto you. May you find whatever it is you need to have a happy and meaningful life.
 
May you find whatever it is you need to have a happy and meaningful life.

Thank you, I wish you the same.
However, I have always "seen through" the Christian faith as that of relentless guilt led by fear and intimidation. The difference between me and good church going folks is I question the validity of the biblical message and the religion by which the bible is about. I figure I cannot endorse one as a fabrication without including the other. It's mostly Christianity I have difficulty swallowing. I don't understand how so many people blindly accept Jesus loves them and if you believe in him, you are with the father and the father is with you.

I believe I am part of an unexplainable miracle called life. I don't understand god but I believe a godlike phenomena is responsible and manages the earth and universe. Does this godlike phenomena or others like him/her? manage other universes we don't know about. Does this mean there are more than one godlike being? How far is the universe? Do godlike beings apply and are interviewed for the job?
It is fruitless for me to in Christianity because faith does not line up with the facts.
 
Mr. Ed said:
May you find whatever it is you need to have a happy and meaningful life.

Thank you, I wish you the same.
However, I have always "seen through" the Christian faith as that of relentless guilt led by fear and intimidation. The difference between me and good church going folks is I question the validity of the biblical message and the religion by which the bible is about. I figure I cannot endorse one as a fabrication without including the other. It's mostly Christianity I have difficulty swallowing. I don't understand how so many people blindly accept Jesus loves them and if you believe in him, you are with the father and the father is with you.

I believe I am part of an unexplainable miracle called life. I don't understand god but I believe a godlike phenomena is responsible and manages the earth and universe. Does this godlike phenomena or others like him/her? manage other universes we don't know about. Does this mean there are more than one godlike being? How far is the universe? Do godlike beings apply and are interviewed for the job?
It is fruitless for me to in Christianity because faith does not line up with the facts.
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I really do get where you are coming from, and I agree with you on many levels. I have spent years trying to sort it out and make sense of it, Christianity and the bible. I have also studied the other great religions, such Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, etc., and there is much to be learned from all of them and they all helped to add to my understanding.
As for Christianity, I have studied not only the content of the Bible but also how it came into being, who wrote it, particularly the new testament, and how it was modified over the years.
The message Yeshua/Jesus brought to the world is still there but even that truth has been altered through transcription, translation, interpretation, and even attributing things to the Christ that he never said. The true message is still there but has become obscured and one must read carefully to understand what came from the mouth of Jesus and what was altered or added by the meddling of the men who were in possession and control of the scriptures.
It can be confusing and frustrating but there is something in your heart that will show you what is true and what was changed or added. As I always like to say, read with an open mind and an open heart and you will find what you are looking for; just take care not to throw the baby out with the bath water.
 
Mr. Ed said:
I don’t blame Jesus, god or the holy three. The truth is I don’t believe in faith, faith is a made up image of something or someone. There is no solid evidence that the Bible is true. Thiis includes salvation or sin for that matter. Sin is why humans need god, therefore the church, religion and god is needed for forgiveness? It is convient that god, sin and religion go hand in hand. Religion provides the service of forgiveness providing you follow the rules of redemption.

I don’t know how the world and universe was created, for lack of information let’s assume god is the creator. I understand this, what I don’t understand is faith. Faith in nothing more than imagining the Bible and Jesus are real, but there not, their in your mind and imagination.
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For me, finding what is true and real is the object. Simply accepting someone else's opinion will not get you there. The New Testament went through an evolution over the period of its first 1000 years and was transformed into something the church could use to maintain its power and authority over the people. It became a political tool of the empire of Rome and it differs greatly from the beliefs of the original followers of the Jesus movement.
These original followers were all persecuted and killed off and what documents they left behind were banned as herisy and also destroyed. But some were buried for safe keeping and have only been discovered over the past century.
The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi library paint quite a different picture of Yeshua and the movement he started, and the truth he imparted. There are many lost and forbidden gospels which were not included in the biblical canon. Now we have them available to us, and now we can make up our own minds about what is real and true.
 
hawkdon said:
Big churches on the firing line also.....

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/11/us/joel-osteen-lakewood-church-houston-shooting/index.html
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Do you know that on certain media outlets. after that shooting Joel Olsteen, Inc. started running ADVERTISEMENTS for his church on CNN?

He took the trajedy of the shooter with untreated and poorly monitored mental illness, and her child who got a bullet in the HEAD, allegedly from church bystanders or church security guards, and turned that into an opportunity to ADVERTISE for his Smiley Cult.

IDK - do you think the Devil smiles an awful lot?
 
Mr. Ed said:
I don’t blame Jesus, god or the holy three. The truth is I don’t believe in faith, faith is a made up image of something or someone. There is no solid evidence that the Bible is true. Thiis includes salvation or sin for that matter. Sin is why humans need god, therefore the church, religion and god is needed for forgiveness? It is convient that god, sin and religion go hand in hand. Religion provides the service of forgiveness providing you follow the rules of redemption.

I don’t know how the world and universe was created, for lack of information let’s assume god is the creator. I understand this, what I don’t understand is faith. Faith in nothing more than imagining the Bible and Jesus are real, but there not, their in your mind and imagination.
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Well isn't it a good thing to have faith in the creative forces (aka God) then?
 
Not long ago, my life interpretation world seemingly fantasy. cartoon like innocence where being with god as god‘s own. I knew no fear because I was one and everything was one with me. I wasn’t tripping but I was in a heightened state of awareness. This is truth, but I don‘t attribute it in association with god but it is because is god.

evil exists but I understand the devil as a force of Influence that impacts decisions and judgement. Does god intermingle with people on earth?
 
I approached my wife about attending an Universal Unitarian church, she wanted to know why. I knew right away where the conversation was heading, inquiring further she asked what is a Unitarian Church? I said a bunch of different beliefs and practices come together for services.

I can’t believe I backed down from telling her I get nothing out of Christiain worship services, she already knows that. My concern is how my attendance at a Unitarian church may lead to false conclusion and rejection from baptist friends.

Any way, the Unitarian website offers a zoom link I can watch during my wife’s church services simply by going someplace quiet that won’t interfere with services.
 
sailormann said:
Separating truth from fiction can be a tricky proposition, but the heart knows the difference. I love Jesus but hate religion. Jesus spoke, embraced and embodied the truth. Other men who had a hand in writing the New Testament added to and took away from his message in an attempt to turn it into something they could own, control, and use for their own selfish ends. But the true message is still there, hidden amidst the tampering. Read it with an open mind and an open heart and you will see. Love is real. Just take care not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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It seems I was saved at age 6yrs, didn’t notice any difference. Teenage years, into drugs-searching for life meaning. Got crazy, literally-psychotic-event-hospitalization-extreme-anger-parents, Lived in-the-moment for a moment. Year 2008, herbs+medication overdose. March near Easter. Became psychotic-went to bathroom and disrobed. Enter front of bathtub shower and exited rear of tub shower. Symbolized resurection of Christ at Easter. A lifetime of symptomatic mental illness I am able to understand how to reclaim my life. Became gainfully employed and graduated from college 2017 with honors. It was a miracle I became well enough to achieve the things I have considering my history with mental illness.

Hopefully I’ll not experience psychosis again. I am in a spiritual growth period that may or may not provide me with greater understanding of self in relationship to life as I know it. Whatever life is I am honored to be it’s student.
 
sailormann said:
Your lack of faith in a divine being and a higher purpose are the result of a lifetime of disappointments. Or perhaps you choose to deny your faith for fear of disappoinment.
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My lack of faith in a divine being comes from questioning many of the faith based beliefs.
Married 62 years hardly a lifetime of disappointment. Living extremely well now retired for 27 years not disappointing.
A few of my questions that have never been answered with verifiable proof.

1. A belief that in death people will join their loved ones. That belief suggests that the meeting will be because of being sentient. How will that happen?
2. A belief that there is an omnipotent being billions of years old is the creator. When & how did that omnipotent being come into existence?
3. A belief that the omnipotent being plans each individuals life.
Jeremiah 29:11. "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
The definition of plan doesn't mention free will to change a plan.
4. There is faith that an omnipotent being created the universe. Science pegs the universe to be 93 billion light-years.
Impossible to create something while inside that something so how exactly does a sentient what ever get beyond that 93 billion light years?
 
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