Do you believe that everyone deserves housing?

VintageBetter said:
Open discussion and not posted to argue.
...

What do you think? Do even the lowest of the low deserve to have the right to take a shower everyday and sleep in a bed, with walls and a roof?

Especially galling in our society is how prisoners have rights to all these things: roof, matress, food, showers, toilets. But the homeless do not.
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VitntageBetter, I applaud your opening post for providing the opportunity for people to share their viewpoints.

Given the discussion that has gone on in this thread, I feel like asking you how you see something that seems to me a fundamental dimension of the issue. Besides financing, providing roof, mattress, food, showers, and toilets requires some sort of set-up, some sort of accepted norms. Some (I won't say all) of the residents of tent encampments will not accept "rules", for which reason they reject help.

Seems to me living together with other people in a situation more adequate than a tent camp, and of a scale that a society would provide, will require some combination of not just unspoken guidelines, but rules (and even abiding by laws). So how do we manage?
 

Thread title
"Do you believe that everyone deserves housing"

deserve

verb
Definition of deserve
as in to earn to be or make worthy of (as a reward or punishment)

Synonyms & Similar Words

earn
merit
qualify
entitle
rate
Thesaurus results for DESERVE

Looking up deserve what applys?
What must one do to earn the reward?
What needs to be done to merit?
Who decides of what the qualifications are?
Who decides entitlement?
 
How about relocating, by law, people who live in 40 room houses ALONE! Wherever they want to go. Put them an a 1000 sq ft house. Do that with every house in the world and find out if we have enough shelter for everyone.
 

Knight said:
Thread title
"Do you believe that everyone deserves housing"

deserve

verb
Definition of deserve
as in to earn to be or make worthy of (as a reward or punishment)

Synonyms & Similar Words

earn
merit
qualify
entitle
rate
Thesaurus results for DESERVE

Looking up deserve what applys?
What must one do to earn the reward?
What needs to be done to merit?
Who decides of what the qualifications are?
Who decides entitlement?
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Maybe, "Everyone should be given the chance to have housing"
 
hollydolly said:
this is one of several Instances where Homes should be an automatic offer. No person who has ever fought for their country, should be refused a home in their own country. If they refuse it that's a different matter..

Unfortunately in the Uk also there is no priority either for Ex serviceman to be housed. Our city streets are lined with ex-servicemen sleeping on the streets it's a national disgrace !
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I cannot speak to the UK situations. But in the USA, most big cities have ample Apartments/Rooms to house all who seek a place to sleep and or get a bite to ear. Unfortunately, all of these have some 'requirements' that must be met. e.g... To get a free room you have to be visibly sober (including not high of drugs) not carrying drugs or alcohol (get searched) and welling to do some work (e.g. clean rooms, wash dishes, etc.)

A number of individuals choose not to take one of these rooms for a night. They would rather sleep outside. They cannot be separated from their drink and\or drugs. Most get picked up and taken to a 'rehab' unit and/or jail where they try and help them. If they fail, they show up back on the street. Some eventually work themselves out of this cycle, some don't in time they just die.
 
Timewise 60+ said:
I cannot speak to the UK situations. But in the USA, most big cities have ample Apartments/Rooms to house all who seek a place to sleep and or get a bite to ear. Unfortunately, all of these have some 'requirements' that must be met. e.g... To get a free room you have to be visibly sober (including not high of drugs) not carrying drugs or alcohol (get searched) and welling to do some work (e.g. clean rooms, wash dishes, etc.)

A number of individuals choose not to take one of these rooms for a night. They would rather sleep outside. They cannot be separated from their drink and\or drugs. Most get picked up and taken to a 'rehab' unit and/or jail where they try and help them. If they fail, they show up back on the street. Some eventually work themselves out of this cycle, some don't in time they just die.
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same here...
 
This is complicated. When you hear about people who work living in their cars. Or rents going up so much people struggle. They need to get that under control but it's free market I guess?

I don't know if someone deserves a home if they are going to thrash and trash it while they receive some government check. Let me tell you, there are younger people getting advanced medical care because they ruined themselves with drugs and will never pay a cent while I cringe if I see an envelope in the mail after something medical, because I know I'm going to owe more that my co-pay and insurance didn't cover.
 
Paco Dennis said:
How about relocating, by law, people who live in 40 room houses ALONE! Wherever they want to go. Put them an a 1000 sq ft house. Do that with every house in the world and find out if we have enough shelter for everyone.
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​

Amendment V​

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

​

 
againstthegrain said:

​

Amendment V​

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

​

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Sure it's against the law now, but when anarchy reigns, then we shall see. :alien:
 
jlhog said:
I will probably take a hit or two for this. I firmly do not believe anyone deserves anything. If you want something work until you can get it. I have had nothing given to me, not even from my parents. If everyone simply deserves everything, who will pay for it all? I do feel some people need assistance for short term only. Social Services is not a way of life.
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I think you need to do some serious thinking about this. Correct me if I'm wrong in the following assumptions please.

Your parents presumably fed, clothed, provided medical care, and housed you for a good number of years in a stable home in a safe community and they probably sacrificed some of their own needs and wants in the process. They probably loved you, although like my parents one would have needed to look at what they did, rather than how they verbally or physically expressed that love. They also probably instilled in you a sense of morals and work ethic, perhaps aided by a church of some sort. They sent you to a public school which was organized and paid for by a functioning society which at the years of our births provided many, many opportunities to be upwardly mobile, both socially and financially.

People that became successful in life "all on their own" are very, very few compared to the masses that have been helped by many of the things mentioned above. It's the "bootstraps theory." I did it ALL BY MYSELF so everyone else should be able to too. It seems to me the bootstrapers take great offense when perhaps the next guy get's a break, that they didn't get.
 
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Paco Dennis said:
How about relocating, by law, people who live in 40 room houses ALONE! Wherever they want to go. Put them an a 1000 sq ft house. Do that with every house in the world and find out if we have enough shelter for everyone.
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But if someone lives in a 40 room house alone, they most likely would have worked for it, earned it, *deserve* it for their hard work. If your scenario would actually be allowed to happen in some universe, wouldn't it cause MORE "homelessness"/displaced people? Why? Think of all the people who'd say "to heck with working paycheck to paycheck... I'm gonna claim bankruptcy and move into that free 40 room mansion that just opened up, by golly!" :unsure:
 
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Nathan said:
Indeed many of the homeless are veterans that fought in wars, but have come home only to fall through the cracks in a society that no longer has any need or compassion for them.
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Yet we continue to glorify war, promoting the fallacy to young kids that if they join up and go fight they'll come home and be lauded as heroes, rather than the stark reality: they'll come home and be honored for a moment during sports events and on certain holidays, but the rest of the year they likely be dealing with the PTSD and brokenness that comes from participating in killing or maiming people or seeing your buddies killed or maimed.

Not to mention that while they were serving, their peers moved forward with their lives.
 
StarSong said:
Yet we continue to glorify war, promoting the fallacy to young kids that if they join up and go fight they'll come home and be lauded as heroes, rather than the stark reality: they'll come home and be honored for a moment during sports events and on certain holidays, but the rest of the year they likely be dealing with the PTSD and brokenness that comes from participating in killing or maiming people or seeing your buddies killed or maimed.

Not to mention that while they were serving, their peers moved forward with their lives.
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I moved forward with my life when I decided to enlist in the military, and found a career.
It was the best decision of my life !!! (but may not be for everyone)
I always had housing, three meals a day and in the end after only 20yrs, a generous pension for the rest of my life.

I don't think what you imply means what you think it means when considering how many of my peers "moved forward with their lives".

It is the representatives "you" elect that send Americans off to war.
I didn't wake one morning and think, today I'll go to war.

EDIT: And the recognition you mentioned is only as you, someone who never served their country, sees it. My perspective as a retired military veteran sees it much differently. Around here, my service and the service of all those who served is respected and noted ... virtually daily. Every time I see an American Flag, it too is also a symbol of service recognition. I own it. Paid in full.
 
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Naturally said:
I moved forward with my life when I decided to enlist in the military, and found a career.
It was the best decision of my life !!! (but may not be for everyone)
I always had housing, three meals a day and in the end after only 20yrs, a generous pension for the rest of my life.

I don't think what you imply means what you think it means when considering how many of my peers "moved forward with their lives".

It is the representatives "you" elect that send Americans off to war.
I didn't wake one morning and think, today I'll go to war.
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I believe you're the exception, not the rule. I was talking about starry-eyed kids just out of HS who are endlessly badgered by recruiters on college campuses (I had 3 kids in college and know whereof I speak) with promises of how they'll leave the military with money for school, a skillset to build a career on, yada yada yada. This while our troops were fighting in the Middle East.

One kid came home with physical injuries but the worst was his PTSD after after seeing some buddies blown to pieces. Others came home and spun their wheels - colllege felt unreal to them so they left for jobs good enough to keep body and soul together, but not ones with serious future opportunities. Another came home and amassed a personal arsenal (legally) that I find terrifying.

The kids I knew who joined up came home much worse off than when they left. One exception: an 18 year old whose uncle was pretty high up in the Air Force. Uncle told him if he joined that branch he could help him out, as indeed he did. Strings were pulled and the kid was diverted to the procurement filed. He's now close to 40, still in the military, and it's worked out as a great career. Never saw any fighting.

You're so right - politicians start the wars and send other people off to do fight and die. I've always felt that if they vote for it they need to have a personal stake in it. Like go and fight for a while yourself, or send your own kid to the front lines. Want war? You go first.

As if.

The clarity of purpose that defined WWII is long behind us and has rarely if ever been seen again.
Just my opinion.
 
StarSong said:
... with promises of how they'll leave the military with money for school, a skillset to build a career on, yada yada yada ...
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While I find disagreement with much of your post, I'll simply cherry pick this one. Coming out of the military, I had the new G.I. Bill for educational benefits. I could have enrolled at a college, trade school or university of my choosing and have almost all of it paid for. That's not counting the educational opportunities presented while on active duty. Long distance learning was available for college credits and sometimes when deployed, a civilian professor would deploy with us and hold classroom instruction for various courses awarding college credit. Rare, but I've also seen select service members allowed a break in their service in order to attend a university and obtain a degree before returning to service ... all while receiving their military pay and all tuition and fees paid for.

Of my 20yr military military career, over two(2) years were spent in a military school for Advanced Electronics. Eventually I would become a Master Training Specialist, Instructor and Division Leading Petty Officer in the Advanced Electronics school. Think of the possibilities open to me in the civilian world when I retired from the military ... highly skilled work and management opportunities in the field of electronics ... or a teaching position perhaps. And that's just the opportunities in my specialty, not even mentioning the special consideration given to veterans for government jobs and some civilian positions.

And the yada yada yada ... well that might include low and no cost medical and dental insurance, military veteran discounts on goods and services from the hardware store to the car lot and all the way back home to low cost mortgages. And much more yada yada yada

EDIT: When retiring from the military I did take out a conventional home loan (that will be paid off early) in lieu of a VA Loan. Can't remember all the reasons, just that I weighed the considerable options before deciding ... and at least there were options to buying a home that I wouldn't have otherwise had, had I not served my country.
 

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