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Sabra
What percentage of Israelis are SABRA?

Between 70 and 75% of the total Jewish population were "Sabras" - born in Israel prior to existence of the state. About 20% immigrated from Europe and Americas and 10% came from North Africa and Asia. Most Sabra are second and third generation. But some go back much further.

I have known many such people in my life. Natural born Israelis whose families lived side by side for thousands of years.

My nephew's father-in-law a Sabra. I have Sabra neighbors. They are duals.
 

Pro-Palestinian protesters meet with DU leadership, plan to stay on campus until demands are met​

What are the demands?

Sunday night marked the fourth night of pro-Palestinian protesters staying in an encampment at the University of Denver (DU) campus. Protest organizers met with school leadership on Sunday afternoon, and said their demands were not met.

The protesters said they mainly discussed one of their primary goals — disclosure of any investments in Israel or associated companies that operate within Israel.

The protesters said they plan to stay until their demands are met.

“This lack of urgency is a strategy being employed to defer this conversation past a point in time when our nation and universities around the country, including this community itself, are talking about this issue," Carranza said.

DU is on the quarter system, so the school year concludes the second week of June.

https://www.denver7.com/news/local-...-plan-to-stay-on-campus-until-demands-are-met
 
A lot of posts since this happened. The war began with Hamas' surprise attack into southern Israel, in which it killed some 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and took another 250 hostage.


No surprise attack no need to respond

No doubt in my mind it's really hard to know a combatant from a civilian. A lot of death could have been prevented if Hamas would wear uniforms so they could be identified.

Remember this and the response that was expected? Why should Israelis want anything less?
On September 11, 2001, terrorists killed nearly 3,000 people and injured more than 6,000 others in the worst attack against the homeland in our nation's history.
 

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The protesters are going by the old fashioned notion that if you're brown & poor you're always right, even if the society they live in is fascistic and regressive in nature. Time for some modernization on their part.
 
davey said:
You gotta be jokin - relocate the palestinians aware from the ME to other parts of the globe - and they will go willingly - like the refugees in UK to Rawanda??
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No, they wouldn't. Besides, I assume you're up to date on how immigrants are being treated these days. Welcomed isn't on the menu.
 
Knight said:
A lot of posts since this happened. The war began with Hamas' surprise attack into southern Israel, in which it killed some 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and took another 250 hostage.


No surprise attack no need to respond

No doubt in my mind it's really hard to know a combatant from a civilian. A lot of death could have been prevented if Hamas would wear uniforms so they could be identified.

Remember this and the response that was expected? Why should Israelis want anything less?
On September 11, 2001, terrorists killed nearly 3,000 people and injured more than 6,000 others in the worst attack against the homeland in our nation's history.
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What Hamas did was wrong, and retribution was inevitable.

What is happening now is only a tangent to that. We now have a land grab, indiscriminate killing, and the destruction of an entire nation on OUR dime. What is happening, daily, is not in retribution for the Hamas attack. It's gone way beyond even simple revenge. The British government know it, NATO knows it, the US government are beginning to call it. War crimes are now a daily event.

If you go back, I said as much months ago. It was obvious what the Israeli leader would do. And it's wrong.
 
VaughanJB said:
What Hamas did was wrong, and retribution was inevitable.

What is happening now is only a tangent to that. We now have a land grab, indiscriminate killing, and the destruction of an entire nation on OUR dime. What is happening, daily, is not in retribution for the Hamas attack. It's gone way beyond even simple revenge. The British government know it, NATO knows it, the US government are beginning to call it. War crimes are now a daily event.

If you go back, I said as much months ago. It was obvious what the Israeli leader would do. And it's wrong.
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If you were the leader in Israel what would you do to get the return of the hostages & to assure Israel has a future?

Since Hamas is calling for the complete destruction of Israel which would be a land grab which do you favor in this conflict?
 
Knight said:
Hamas is calling for the complete destruction of Israel
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Both sides seem hell bent on destroying the other side, completely. One side has almost accomplished it, while the other side is in purgatory. When will there be an end to the last remaining enemy? Will it be over? I feel like it will have just begun.
 
Well it seems that without registering any prejudices about this that:

1. the Palestinians have come off much worse than the Israelis so far and continue to do so into Rafa?
2. the Israel govt and troops are prepared to continue ' a cleansing process' until Hamas is destroyed?
3. Neither side seems to be willing to take advise from other world Govts in advisory roles either close by or from afar
4. And in a similar way to the second world war it will not cease until there is an all out winner?

have I missed anything?
 
Hamas would have surrendered already if not for it's billionaires who don't give a crap that their 'people', not that they care at all about them, are human shields. In fact, it is deliberately set up that way to confuse the situation.

Such naivete on the part of so many.
 
Knight said:
If you were the leader in Israel what would you do to get the return of the hostages & to assure Israel has a future?

Since Hamas is calling for the complete destruction of Israel which would be a land grab which do you favor in this conflict?
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Hasn't Hamas' charter been updated in 2017? I think it changes it's antisemitic rhetoric and uses the term "Zionists" that they are at war with.?
 
Copilot research.

In May 2017, Hamas, the Palestinian political and military organization, unveiled a Document of General Principles and Policies (وثيقة المبادئ والسياسات العامة لحركة حماس), also known as the new or revised Hamas charter1. Here are the key points from that document:

  1. Palestinian State and Borders:
  2. Armed Resistance and International Law:
  3. Mixed Reception:
In summary, the 2017 Hamas charter softened its stance on certain issues while maintaining its core principles1.
 
CallMeKate said:
:oops: You do know the definition of Zionism, I assume?
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a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.

So it does look like it really is about the same thing...ok I see.
 
Knight said:
If you were the leader in Israel what would you do to get the return of the hostages & to assure Israel has a future?

Since Hamas is calling for the complete destruction of Israel which would be a land grab which do you favor in this conflict?
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Has the leader of Israel managed to get the hostages back? Are you suggesting that the only way possible to try and achieve it is to flatten a country with explosives made by other countries, kill innocent men, women, and children with indiscriminate shelling, and leaving them with no safe water, food, or sanitation?

I don't understand the comment regarding Hamas wanting complete destruction of Israel. Israel wants complete control of Palestine, is that somehow different?
 
VaughanJB said:
Has the leader of Israel managed to get the hostages back? Are you suggesting that the only way possible to try and achieve it is to flatten a country with explosives made by other countries, kill innocent men, women, and children with indiscriminate shelling, and leaving them with no safe water, food, or sanitation?

I don't understand the comment regarding Hamas wanting complete destruction of Israel. Israel wants complete control of Palestine, is that somehow different?
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The US is sending a huge message that it supports the elimination of Hamas...completely. I guess when they are gone, Israel will set up a government to have Israel be all of Palestine. One state, I guess. While the UN is pushing for Palestine being recognized as its own state. Where will it be? I don't understand the logistics of what this is supposed to look like when all of Hamas is gone. Do they get a country? If so, it will need to be far away from Israel/Palestine.
 
Paco Dennis said:
The US is sending a huge message that it supports the elimination of Hamas...completely. I guess when they are gone, Israel will set up a government to have Israel be all of Palestine. One state, I guess. While the UN is pushing for Palestine being recognized as its own state. Where will it be? I don't understand the logistics of what this is supposed to look like when all of Hamas is gone. Do they get a country? If so, it will need to be far away from Israel/Palestine.
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Doing a lot of guessing there boy.
 
VaughanJB said:
Has the leader of Israel managed to get the hostages back? Are you suggesting that the only way possible to try and achieve it is to flatten a country with explosives made by other countries, kill innocent men, women, and children with indiscriminate shelling, and leaving them with no safe water, food, or sanitation?

I don't understand the comment regarding Hamas wanting complete destruction of Israel. Israel wants complete control of Palestine, is that somehow different?
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I expected you to avoid saying what you would if you were the leader in Israel. Easy to condemn what you aren't responsible for. Unlike Hamas the IDF wear unforms & are identifiable. Finding the people responsible for the attack that began this isn't an easy task when the enemy hides among the civilian population. If the civilian population immediately turned in or exposed Hamas combatants & didn't fear being killed by Hamas, IMO the destruction you cite wouldn't have happened.

As for Hamas this seems to me to be far more credible that your questioning Israels intent. I don't remember reading where Israel built tunnels to prepare to attack the innocent citizens of Palestine.

Since its creation in December 1987, Hamas has invoked militant interpretations of Islam to spearhead a Sunni extremist movement committed to destroying Israel. Hamas distanced itself from the longstanding Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)—an umbrella organization for disparate Palestinian factions that ranged from Marxist to secular nationalists—by propagating resistance in the religious context of jihad, or a holy struggle and martyrdom. “Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes,” Hamas said in its first statement in the late 1980s. Predominantly Shiite Iran has armed, trained and funded Hamas since the late 1980s largely due to its opposition to Israel and Islamic ideology.

Doctrine of Hamas.

What do you think Hamas would do if Israel had never responded?
 
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