Seniors living in tent encampment desperate for safe housing

VaughanJB said:
It's definitely a societal problem. Too many, I suspect, think of it as part of the cost of doing business in today's world. For us to have the things we want at a price we want to pay, there simply have to be those who both miss out and out and out live in poverty. Instead of that being a source of shame, we applaud it and write it off as economics 101.

Honestly, when I look at the homeless issue, I think: This is what government is for. They should have seen it coming, and they should deal with it in a proper and humane way. Don't leave mentally ill people in a tent, taking street drugs to make the madness go away. Don't look down at the addicts and blame them for being failures. It's become a cliche, but if we can build missiles and tanks, surely we can build homes? Not only that, but have a true system in place to guide people through a transition from the street, and failure, to a reasonable level of success. No?
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Can we? Yes. Do we? No. Why? Because today's elected officials are largely career politicians whose re-elections rely heavily on donations to pay for signage, mailings and media ads. That leaves them beholden to these folks to some degree.

People and corporations with a lot of money want to maintain that status. It's not that they want others to live in poverty, it's more that they don't want to foot the tax bill that will fund the poor's elevation from that status.

Federal tax rates for the wealthy are ridiculously low. Some of the super wealthy have recently pointed this out. Warren Buffet and Bill Gates, for sure, but there are likely others.

The US and other countries need to heavily legislate and tax REITs (Real Estate Investment Trusts) and for-profit corporations so that it becomes financially unappealing to own numerous private homes, apartment buildings, hospitals, nursing homes, assisted living facilities, charter schools, etc., or to continue swallowing up independents.

These corporations put me in mind of the immensely powerful Borg collective from the Star Trek Voyager series. They have the same goal - to assimilate that which will enrich them and increase their power: "We are the Borg. You will be assililated. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile."
 
One reason that poverty and homelessness are so hard to eradicate is that the non-profits supposedly "helping" are themselves corrupt.

The latest from San Francisco:

Top official resigns from Human Rights Commission after scandal

And let's not forget our friends in Minneapolis who stole hundreds of millions from programs meant to feed the poor

Feds accuse 47 people of stealing cash meant to help feed needy kids in 'staggering' Covid scheme

And big thefts by Mississippi Republicans

The Mississippi welfare fraud involving Brett Favre, explained
 
HermitHogan said:
One possible solution to the working poor homeless population problem is to require businesses such as Amazon and Walmart to provide housing for their employees.
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I don't see that working at all -- just a bureaucratic nightmare. Much easier to pay them more, although that will lead to more automation and fewer jobs.
 
Irishdude said:
I don't see that working at all -- just a bureaucratic nightmare. Much easier to pay them more, although that will lead to more automation and fewer jobs.
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On a related topic. The Canadian WalMart eastern distribution warehouse complex in Mississauga, Ontario is going to become a unionized workplace shortly. More than 40 percent of the Wal Mart warehouse employees signed union cards, and the union ( UNIFOR ) has been certified as their bargaining representative. Union membership in Canada is 30 percent of the total national workforce, while in the USA only 10 percent of all workers are union members.

READ THIS. Workers at Walmart warehouse in Mississauga vote to unionize in a Canadian first

Canadian Wal Mart employees all ready are covered by their Provincial Health Care Programs, which they pay premiums for out of their pay cheques each pay period. For a single person with an annual income of $30.000 the monthly premium is $56. That covers all required medical care, doctor's visits, emergency department care, hospitalization, and surgeries. It is free at the point of service. No one here gets a bill for necessary medical care. The higher a person's net income the higher their OHIP monthly premium goes, to a maximum of $878 a month, if the person earns over $200,00 a year.

This is a universal program, no one who is a legal resident of Ontario can be denied care, and there are no insurance company clerks making decisions about your medical treatment. That is a private matter, between your Doctor and you. I can see any Doctor I want, at any time I choose. Doctors are paid based on a yearly negotiated contract, between the Provincial Ministry of Health, and the Ontario Medical Association.

American multi national companies that expand into Canada need to be aware that joining a union here is a protected right, for all Canadian workers. Here in the Province of Ontario, the largest union group are the employees of the Ontario Government. 77 percent of Ontario civil servants are union members, including teachers, fire fighters, paramedics, and many others. JIMB.
 
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jimintoronto said:
American multi national companies that expand into Canada need to be aware that joining a union here is a protected right, for all Canadian workers. Here in the Province of Ontario, the largest union group are the employees of the Ontario Government. 77 percent of Ontario civil servants are union members, including teachers, fire fighters, paramedics, and many others. JIMB.
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It's a protected right in the US, too. Most public school teachers and other public employees in California are union members. I can't say what happens in other states.
 
officerripley said:
True:

"...STEM [Science, Technology, Engineering, Math] professionals are the mandarins of [this] computer age—and...our view of reality may turn out to be every bit as blinkered as the things 'everyone' knew in the inner courts of Versailles or St. Petersburg or the Forbidden Palace. There is a certain smell to the lies that privileged intellectuals tell each other in deeply divided societies during the last few gilded years before the streets catch fire."
~~from “Books” column by Chris Moriarty in The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, Sept./Oct. 2015
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Yet he's likely quoted because he's considered some kind of authority. Otherwise, why would we care what he thinks?
 
Irishdude said:
One reason that poverty and homelessness are so hard to eradicate is that the non-profits supposedly "helping" are themselves corrupt.
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There's an issue which I've mentioned prior regarding drug addiction treatment - that is, it's done for profit. The system dictates everyone is chasing a dollar, and that leads to abuse. Not everything can run for profit. Some things have a cost that society must bear. Doing so benefits us all, even if it's not putting dollars in our pockets, it's just the right thing to do.

We recently had a long thread about God and the Bible. So, what would Jesus have said and done? These are people in extreme hardship, and I just think we're letting both them, and ourselves, down.
 
VaughanJB said:
Yet he's likely quoted because he's considered some kind of authority. Otherwise, why would we care what he thinks?
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Well actually, IIRC, it’s Ms. Moriarty and she works in the STEM field, so you can be pretty sure that none of the males in that field care what she thinks (going by what I hear about them).

For that matter, why would we care what anyone thinks? And yet, we all keep posting here. Hmmmm.
 
Irishdude said:
I don't see that working at all -- just a bureaucratic nightmare. Much easier to pay them more, although that will lead to more automation and fewer jobs.
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Even if they're paid more, there's still a housing shortage.

These days, it's the cost of land that makes housing so expensive. Have you ever seen an Amazon warehouse? They're huge! They could build housing on top of the warehouses — even if they're just little efficiency apartments. That would be far better than their employees living in their vehicles because they can't afford a place to live.

And Amazon pays pretty decent wages for factory work. It's just that the housing crisis has everything so screwed up.
 
HermitHogan said:
Even if they're paid more, there's still a housing shortage.

These days, it's the cost of land that makes housing so expensive. Have you ever seen an Amazon warehouse? They're huge! They could build housing on top of the warehouses — even if they're just little efficiency apartments. That would be far better than their employees living in their vehicles because they can't afford a place to live.

And Amazon pays pretty decent wages for factory work. It's just that the housing crisis has everything so screwed up.
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It's a neat idea, I just don't see it working so well given the realities of human, corporate and government nature. But I do suffer from a lack of vision.
 
It seems like we’ve already tried the idea of company towns.

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The idea that we need to be taken care of by the government or an employer is disturbing to me.

IMO our only obligation is to extend a hand up when a homeless person is ready to address the root cause of their problems.

The issues will be different in almost every situation and nothing will work until the individual is ready.
 
officerripley said:
Well actually, IIRC, it’s Ms. Moriarty and she works in the STEM field, so you can be pretty sure that none of the males in that field care what she thinks (going by what I hear about them).

For that matter, why would we care what anyone thinks? And yet, we all keep posting here. Hmmmm.
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Oh, I care about expertise. Real expertise. That's why I care. I care what educated people think. Mostly today, it seems people care more about personality. 🤷
 
VaughanJB said:
There's an issue which I've mentioned prior regarding drug addiction treatment - that is, it's done for profit. The system dictates everyone is chasing a dollar, and that leads to abuse. Not everything can run for profit. Some things have a cost that society must bear. Doing so benefits us all, even if it's not putting dollars in our pockets, it's just the right thing to do.

We recently had a long thread about God and the Bible. So, what would Jesus have said and done? These are people in extreme hardship, and I just think we're letting both them, and ourselves, down.
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The issue with drug addiction treatment is that, as soon as it came under the administration of a not-for-profit agency, treatment costs were slashed, and when costs were slashed the recidivism rose to 85% (a national average), and the cost to individuals seeking rehabilitation treatment through private for-profit facilities rose by as much as 65%.

And because medical insurance companies didn't want to pay the higher costs, or couldn't afford them, they stopped including treatment for drug addiction on their policies and hundreds of private treatment centers were forced to either close or accept wealthy addicts only.

Years later, employers either re-added rehab benefits their employees had to pay extra for, like as a tier, or started offering *limited* rehab benefits, i.e., out-patient and pharmaceutical treatment only, both of which are ineffective for hard-core addicts. Most of them inevitably lost their jobs.

Private for-profit substance-addiction treatment centers know what they are doing. Their staff includes experienced medical and psychiatric professionals and therapists, and a lot of them hire life-coach counselors who are reformed addicts. Services include family therapy for the addict's parents, spouses, and kids, and some even offer employment assistance and job training referrals.

On average (national), the recidivism rate at private for-profit substance-addiction treatment centers is around 25%. The recidivism rate for a few of them is only 7%. I bet their cost of doing business is among the highest, but that reputation is worth it.
 
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Jeni said:
Each person has a story.... disaster can happen to anyone.... insurance does not make anyone whole after a disaster.
People would have more sympathy to the problem IF they had not had personal witness to fraud or abuse or just those who will take advantage of those with a big heart or will give .........believing things will change.

I work a 1/2 block from a grocery store ..... I walk over on days i did not bring lunch ... there is a rotating group of people with signs asking for handouts.... there is a wheelchair / various cardboard signs stashed behind some bushes and used by many in group as a prop....
kids and dogs also used as a props.....
it is almost like they have a "work schedule." .....I saw a discussion of "this was my time slot " ...... the next stop down the street a ways is a Costco. I literally see a couple with 3 kids used as props ...... work on sunny days 2 days at Costco / 2 days at other store, brand new clothes and they now bring lawn chairs to sit while begging for help.

Also know a young man who lived in his van for 3 months working at a place i have a family member working at ... staff had nothing but pride that that guy never said anything about his situation just worked until he found a place and had some money set aside washed/ showered at a low cost gym he joined. Only took help when people figured it out and had some extra home items to help him out.....

Which type do would you want to help?

Programs government or private ......most of your money / donations go to "administration" look ........at the CEO of many charity organizations 6 figure salaries to help the poor and they act all saintly..... who is really profiting from the millions given. AND the problem grows. Like the billions spent in California they never even tracked or accounted for. Yet we are told billions more is needed ..... will the next bunch be spent wisely or funneled into anyone wanting to profit off the endless need.
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One of my personal rants is about the billions upon billions we send to other countries. I was always taught...take care of home first. It really ticks me off that the "entities" say there is not enough in the budget to give more aid to poor families or even veterans who served this country. Or if they do, it takes months of red tape, yet allied countries ask for money and it seems they get it at the drop of a hat! :mad: Granted, there are probably different "pots" that these funds are pulled from...but if they wanted, they could manipulate those different budgetary designations to better accommodate our needy citizens.

In addition, we know the government has a reputation for wasteful spending and apparently, in some instances, poor accounting methods, as pointed out in your reply. Then there's tax breaks given to the wealthy and big corporations. Yet whoever makes at least $13,500 must file taxes. Hopefully those in that income bracket will get refunds, because that's barely enough to live on, let alone pay taxes on.
 
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Aunt Bea said:
It seems like we’ve already tried the idea of company towns.

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The idea that we need to be taken care of by the government or an employer is disturbing to me.

IMO our only obligation is to extend a hand up when a homeless person is ready to address the root cause of their problems.

The issues will be different in almost every situation and nothing will work until the individual is ready.
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100% agree here !
 
GoneFishin said:
They now have a home (y)

Seniors living in Halifax tent move into apartment thanks to donors, volunteer 😍

'I hope they get to see this and know how much both of us appreciate what they did,' says Judy Howe, 77
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/homeless-senior-citizen-halifax-tent-encampment-1.7324946

Two Halifax seniors who were living in a tent have moved into an apartment thanks to a volunteer street navigator and financial help from some kind strangers. 😍
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Regular citizens do everything better, faster, and/or more efficiently than government agencies.
 
Murrmurr said:
Regular citizens do everything better, faster, and/or more efficiently than government agencies.
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Government [agencies] or government [personnel] ?

Have you ever worked in / been involved with civil service ?

When ever a profit is needed / desired , and it always is in the private sector ...... the cost of any service always rises. Sometimes exponentially . I won't go into the very long story but ..... I have seen it / been involved in it personally .

The private sector is seldom the more cost effective manner in which to get things done.
 
rgp said:
Government [agencies] or government [personnel] ?

Have you ever worked in / been involved with civil service ?

When ever a profit is needed / desired , and it always is in the private sector ...... the cost of any service always rises. Sometimes exponentially . I won't go into the very long story but ..... I have seen it / been involved in it personally .

The private sector is seldom the more cost effective manner in which to get things done.
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Sometimes yes, sometimes no. There's a lot of waste in public fund administration, too.

My observation: whether public or private, bureaucratic layers add dramatically to costs through salaries and convoluted decision making processes. Most of the money disappears in that giant catchall category: overhead.

My mother often said the best way to give is through direct charity. No hands are greased and no other agendas are served. Even truer now than back in the 60s when I first recall her saying those words.
 
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