What are things that everyone ought to understand, but many don't?

[Aunt Bea]

Are you saying that in Oklahoma religion is being taught in off campus locations and students have to walk there for class?

When I was in public school the Catholic kids could attend early release religious education.

The kids would walk to a nearby Catholic church for classes.

It looks like it is still an option in New York State where I went to school.

https://releasedtime.org/newyork

 

[Twostep]

When I was in public school the Catholic kids could attend early release religious education.

The kids would walk to a nearby Catholic church for classes.

It looks like it is still an option in New York State where I went to school.

https://releasedtime.org/newyork

I was asking the specific poster.
We had the choice of catholic/protestant/none. No leaving the building. Did I get in trouble for passing grades on catholic and none))

 

[ChiroDoc]

But if we did not have a central bank who would print the money that’s worth less than then the paper it’s printed on?

Heh, heh.. The Fed doesn't print money. They simply inflate it. The U.S. Mint and the Bureau of Engraving and Printing print money.

 

[Warrigal]

It puzzles me that so many people do not understand that the Earth is finite and as a consequence they assume that humans can keep on plundering/consuming its resources without limit.

Unchecked population growth and reckless production of more and more throw away products is unsustainable in the long run. This idea should be obvious to any thoughtful person, yet we fail to address the problem.

 

[Vida May]

So who gets to determine "truth, right or wrong"?? Censorship certainly does NOT teach the difference, and education certainly hasn't helped.

Education certainly did help when its primary purpose was teaching good citizenship and understanding what education has to do with the strength and unity of the US democracy, as Thomas Jefferson did. We did not rely on immigrant parents to teach their children American ways, but we understood that by teaching the children, the parents would learn from them. If you like, I will gladly quote from the books that have led to what I say.

We determine truth with logic and agreement. Our oldest school text focused on communication skills and public speaking, as those are much more important to a democracy than a football team. However, these higher-order thinking skills do not come naturally. They must be taught, and the learner must actively practice them. Being a citizen of a democracy is not a passive, rely-on-your-feelings thing. There is a lot of talk right now about the threats to democracy and unfortunately, there is not enough talk about what education has to do with democracy.

The story of education's relationship to wars and technology is fascinating, and I have a few books to refer to. This is a subject that certainly belongs in this thread.

 

[Buckeye]

Education certainly did help when its primary purpose was teaching good citizenship and understanding what education has to do with the strength and unity of the US democracy, as Thomas Jefferson did. We did not rely on immigrant parents to teach their children American ways, but we understood that by teaching the children, the parents would learn from them. If you like, I will gladly quote from the books that have led to what I say.

We determine truth with logic and agreement. Our oldest school text focused on communication skills and public speaking, as those are much more important to a democracy than a football team. However, these higher-order thinking skills do not come naturally. They must be taught, and the learner must actively practice them. Being a citizen of a democracy is not a passive, rely-on-your-feelings thing. There is a lot of talk right now about the threats to democracy and unfortunately, there is not enough talk about what education has to do with democracy.

The story of education's relationship to wars and technology is fascinating, and I have a few books to refer to. This is a subject that certainly belongs in this thread.

If you're going to be blasphemous, please do not respond to/quote my posts.

Thank you.

 

[Vida May]

If you're going to be blasphemous, please do not respond to/quote my posts.

Thank you.

I am sorry I do not know what you mean. What did I say that offended you?

 

[Vida May]

I've stayed out of this argument so far, but to your question -- I am vehemently opposed to censorship. No matter how ugly, no matter how offensive, no matter how wrong, I served my country for 20+ years so that they (and I) can state what we believe to be true.

If you don't buy it -- that's fine. You have the same rights I do. Ugly arguments sometimes emerge.

But I will go to my deathbed believing in YOUR right to state your beliefs -- within the confines of law. And yeah, I've heard the arguments about shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater when there is no fire. That isn't an opinion -- that's a crime.

Wow, I guess everyone can say what they think except me. You say you will accept my right to freedom of speech, but I think you would shoot me dead if we were in the same room. Have you heard the arguments about morals and democracy and liberty and social responsibility? Our rights do not us license to say and do anything we want without concern for the consequences. Right now the US is in big trouble because we stopped transmitting the culture essential to being a great nation with a civil civilization.

Our teachers defended our democracy in the room until the 1958 National Defense Education Act skyrocketed our military technology at the expense of our wisdom. Now we rely on laws and law enforces, and individuals with guns, to maintain social order as they think it should be maintained, and that is what our military fought against. Our liberty depended on a culture that no longer exists.

 

[Warrigal]

@Vida May, when I was in Teachers' College way back in the 1960s, I was taught that the primary purpose of public schools was to transmit cultural values. This is not to say that the three Rs are not important but it is even more important to transmit cultural values to every child.

This is a truism for public education in every country of the world. As a child I was taught about our native birds and animals and our obligation to look after them and their habitat, not that the word habitat was ever used back then. We learned that their home was the bushland and to have respect for it. My father reinforced this message by taking us on bushwalks.

We recited a simple oath of allegiance to the flag, to God and to the King at every assembly, and learned the European version of the settlement and development of Australia. What we did not learn was the cost of settlement for the indigenous people. Back then, while Australia was no longer a colony of Britain, we considered ourselves to be British and we read mostly British story books and dressed like English children. Culturally we were copies of English people set in an Australian landscape.

Then we began to absorb American culture via the movies. Pre WW II we had an Australian film industry, but American film moguls began buying up the movie theatres and our film industry was strangled. We continued to watch British movies but westerns were pretty much standard fare, along with Hollywood musicals and Tarzan movies. Ned Kelly was out and Daniel Boone was in. In effect, three different cultures, British, American and Australian were competing for our hearts and minds.

Australian nationalism began to reassert itself in the years leading up to our bicentennial celebrations. When Britain joined the Common Market and our exports to what we considered to be the Motherland were not wanted any more, people like me had to realise that Australians were no longer British and we had to face the new reality of what it means to be an Australian. This turned out to be a good thing.

Forgive the long ramble, but I wish to make the point that one of the primary purposes of public education is the transmission of national culture. Culture is not fixed nor unchanging, nor should it be. There is no going back to past times. Schools must adapt to current times.

 

[Warrigal]

Deleted, duplicate.

 

[HermitHogan]

Forgive the long ramble, but I wish to make the point that one of the primary purposes of public education is the transmission of national culture. Culture is not fixed nor unchanging, nor should it be. There is no going back to past times. Schools must adapt to current times.

We don't have a "national culture" here in the U.S. We're a hodgepodge of multiple ethnicities, religions, languages, viewpoints, customs, education levels, and pretty much everything under the sun.

It used to be that the one common thread the we had as Americans was respect for our Constitution and the belief that no one is above the law. Those days appear to be gone. Perhaps they'll return one day, but right now, not so much.

 

[chic]

It's been my experience that most of the shaming is directed against the sick people: "She has cancer but it's her own fault for smoking," "He has diabetes, but I saw him at the store with cookies in his cart."

I know young people who think if you eat healthy (defined by the diet of the year) and work-out, you'll never get sick. Those things help, I'm all in favor, but they are no guarantee. The older I get the more examples I see of people who've lived healthy lifestyles going down.

May I ask who??

 

[Vida May]

Should it include your definition of moral or my definition?

We can argue our own definitions. I will argue a moral is a matter of cause and effect. We used fables to teach morals. The Little Red Hen. The Little Engine that Could. The Fox and the Grapes are such moral tales. Why didn't the Little Red Hen share her bread with her friends? How did the Little Engine make it over the hill? What is the moral of the Fox and the Grapes?

If you do not think those are moral tales, why not?

How do you want to define moral?

 

[fwtxcitywoman]

Many people have disabilities you cannot see. Don't judge....is the best thing....

 

[Vida May]

We don't have a "national culture" here in the U.S. We're a hodgepodge of multiple ethnicities, religions, languages, viewpoints, customs, education levels, and pretty much everything under the sun.

It used to be that the one common thread the we had as Americans was respect for our Constitution and the belief that no one is above the law. Those days appear to be gone. Perhaps they'll return one day, but right now, not so much.

The older textbooks I have demonstrated the characteristics of good citizenship and heroes. The math book and the health book, again and again, call attention to good manners, being considerate and cooperative. The goal of education was well-rounded individual growth and good citizenship
and stories of heroes and the founding fathers were very important to this goal.

Especially the "Democracy Series" teaches good citizenship and culture and how the US was different from Germany. It say... "Democracy is a way of life and social organization which above all others is sensitive to the dignity and worth of the individual human personality, affirming the fundamental moral and political equality of all men and recognizing no barriers of race, religion, or circumstance. (General Report of the Seminar of "What Is Democracy?" Congress on Education for Democracy, August, 1939.)

There were not many textbook publishers so it was not that hard to educate for a culture that works with liberty. During times of war, books for adults united the nation with democratic ideals. A liberal education was national and prepares the young for democracy and liberty and to make arguments about that for which we stand. Interestingly before the civil war the north was the only publisher of textbooks and when the south realized the anti-slavery culture in the textbooks, it began producing its own textbooks defending slavery.

Bottom line, education and culture go together, until the 1958 National Defense Education Act that replaced our domestic education with education for a technological society with unknown values. Education is like a genii in a bottle. The defined purpose is the wish and the students are the genii. We are no longer the democracy we defended, because only when democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended. The military has a different culture.

 

[Vida May]

@Vida May, when I was in Teachers' College way back in the 1960s, I was taught that the primary purpose of public schools was to transmit cultural values. This is not to say that the three Rs are not important but it is even more important to transmit cultural values to every child.

This is a truism for public education in every country of the world. As a child I was taught about our native birds and animals and our obligation to look after them and their habitat, not that the word habitat was ever used back then. We learned that their home was the bushland and to have respect for it. My father reinforced this message by taking us on bushwalks.

We recited a simple oath of allegiance to the flag, to God and to the King at every assembly, and learned the European version of the settlement and development of Australia. What did not learn was the cost of settlement for the indigenous people. Back then, while Australia was no longer a colony of Britain, we considered ourselves to be British and we read mostly British story books and dressed like English children. Culturally we were copies of English people set in an Australian landscape.

Then we began to absorb American culture via the movies. Pre WW II we had an Australian film industry, but American film moguls began buying up the movie theatres and our film industry was strangled. We continued to watch British movies but westerns were pretty much standard fare, along with Hollywood musicals and Tarzan movies. Ned Kelly was out and Daniel Boone was in. In effect, three different cultures, British, American and Australian were competing for our hearts and minds.

Australian nationalism began to reassert itself in the years leading up to our bicentennial celebrations. When Britain joined the Common Market and our exports to what we considered to be the Motherland were not wanted any more, people like me had to realise that Australians were no longer British and we had to face the new reality of what it means to be an Australian. This turned out to be a good thing.

Forgive the long ramble, but I wish to make the point that one of the primary purposes of public education is the transmission of national culture. Culture is not fixed nor unchanging, nor should it be. There is no going back to past times. Schools must adapt to current times.

I was hoping you would speak up. You did a wonderful job of explaining the complexity of a culture and competing cultures. Your Australian perspective gave us a bigger picture that is valuable. You really won me over when you spoke of the relationship of culture and education and economics.

I want to add history is very important to our judgment. Hopefully, that is a world and universal history, not just a state's history or one country's history. I write because I want people to know our past was different from what is so today and I want everyone to question the wisdom of leaping into the future without looking back. This is what Zeus feared, humans learning all the technologies and turning their backs on the gods. Technology without wisdom is not a good thing.

 

[Paco Dennis]

We should be able to understand our behavior? I remember the 50's and the textbooks. They were also filled with Americana of the earlier era. But time moves on. That was then. Technology changed everything. Kids and teenagers don't understand why they are addicted to this or that, just as we didn't know why. They live their lives and make our culture, for what it is. We will never go back to to 1930's...and I won't be expecting anybody to understand anything for quite awhile.

 

[Paco Dennis]

I was hoping you would speak up. You did a wonderful job of explaining the complexity of a culture and competing cultures. Your Australian perspective gave us a bigger picture that is valuable. You really won me over when you spoke of the relationship of culture and education and economics.

I want to add history is very important to our judgment. Hopefully, that is a world and universal history, not just a state's history or one country's history. I write because I want people to know our past was different from what is so today and I want everyone to question the wisdom of leaping into the future without looking back. This is what Zeus feared, humans learning all the technologies and turning their backs on the gods. Technology without wisdom is not a good thing.

Interesting we had a similar response. I doubt that we can educate the values and ethics of old. Not anymore. There is too much distraction. Did you see "Clockwork Orange"? They tried rehabilitate a criminal by behavioral modification ( drastic ), and it backfired. We can't educate morality in such a multi polar environment. Something new is needed to bring humans together.

 

[Twostep]

I was hoping you would speak up. You did a wonderful job of explaining the complexity of a culture and competing cultures. Your Australian perspective gave us a bigger picture that is valuable. You really won me over when you spoke of the relationship of culture and education and economics.

I want to add history is very important to our judgment. Hopefully, that is a world and universal history, not just a state's history or one country's history. I write because I want people to know our past was different from what is so today and I want everyone to question the wisdom of leaping into the future without looking back. This is what Zeus feared, humans learning all the technologies and turning their backs on the gods. Technology without wisdom is not a good thing.

We cannot live in the past as comfortable it may be. Just ask Zeus.

 

[Vida May]

We cannot live in the past as comfortable it may be. Just ask Zeus.

No one knows that better than I but technology without wisdom is not a good thing, and without history there is no wisdom.

 

[Vida May]

Interesting we had a similar response. I doubt that we can educate the values and ethics of old. Not anymore. There is too much distraction. Did you see "Clockwork Orange"? They tried rehabilitate a criminal by behavioral modification ( drastic ), and it backfired. We can't educate morality in such a multi polar environment. Something new is needed to bring humans together.

Hey, you might like to know convicts have been rehabilitated when educated with the classics. A liberal education is based on the classics.

What is the goal of a classical liberal arts education? The goal of a classical liberal arts education is to create well-rounded, informed, independent thinkers who are capable of continuing their learning in a wide variety of fields. The general knowledge and critical-thinking skills that are picked up in classical liberal arts training are a proven platform for developing communications and problem-solving skills useful in many other fields. What is The Goal of a Classical Liberal Arts Education?

How Education Offers a Pathway to Rehabilitation for Incarcerated Individuals of All Ages

College Planning
April 2, 2024
https://www.grantford.org/post/how-...tion-for-incarcerated-individuals-of-all-ages

 

[Paco Dennis]

Hey, you might like to know convicts have been rehabilitated when educated with the classics. A liberal education is based on the classics.

​

I have done work in prisons as a teacher of Buddhist psychology. I am very aware of how the classics have influenced cultural ethics. They have fundamental principles for a healthy functioning democratic society. What I don't see happening is any kind of curriculums anywhere except a few, and far between, institutions teachings them. I live in a town with 3 major colleges. Liberal Arts leaning. I love it here. When I was younger I loved going in to town and go to the beer and pizza shop. I had some great conversations with the students.

 

[officerripley]

Hey, you might like to know convicts have been rehabilitated when educated with the classics. A liberal education is based on the classics.

I have done work in prisons as a teacher of Buddhist psychology. I am very aware of how the classics have influenced cultural ethics. They have fundamental principles for a healthy functioning democratic society. What I don't see happening is any kind of curriculums anywhere except a few, and far between, institutions teachings them. I live in a town with 3 major colleges. Liberal Arts leaning. I love it here. When I was younger I loved going in to town and go to the beer and pizza shop. I had some great conversations with the students.

Unfortunately, as our prison system becomes more and more privatized and big businessy, I fear that there'll be less and less efforts made to help prisoners in that fashion.

 

[Debrah N.]

It sounds like you really mean you don't want anyone to be able to say things that you disagree with.

Or maybe the point is that we all need to learn to be respectful of other people's feelings because it just makes life more pleasant (and safer) for all.

My husband and I have been watching some videos by an American man and two Brits, one a man and the other a young woman, who moved to China 12 years ago and they love living there and would never return. The common thread is that it's much cheaper to live there (because price gouging isn't allowed) and they feel 100% safe there and it's a good place to raise your kids. They all describe the people as friendly and accommodating too with both Chinese and English signage.

One man referenced American freedoms (much the same as Canadian freedoms except we have laws against 'hate speech') and suggested that those freedoms have resulted in a lot of violence and people feeling they don't have to be accountable for their behaviour.

 

[Eupher]

Wow, I guess everyone can say what they think except me. You say you will accept my right to freedom of speech, but I think you would shoot me dead if we were in the same room. Have you heard the arguments about morals and democracy and liberty and social responsibility? Our rights do not us license to say and do anything we want without concern for the consequences. Right now the US is in big trouble because we stopped transmitting the culture essential to being a great nation with a civil civilization.

Our teachers defended our democracy in the room until the 1958 National Defense Education Act skyrocketed our military technology at the expense of our wisdom. Now we rely on laws and law enforces, and individuals with guns, to maintain social order as they think it should be maintained, and that is what our military fought against. Our liberty depended on a culture that no longer exists.

Your response is completely wrong, irresponsible, and over-the-top. Nobody - least of all me - said anything about your right to free speech, except that I would DEFEND it.

The rest of your claptrap is just that - nonsense. I said nothing about morals, democracy, and social responsibility in my post, which focused solely on the 1st Amendment's right to free speech and the liberty contained within.

I said nothing of culture. I said nothing of teachers. I said nothing of 1958's legislation.

My suggestion: Focus on what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.