Thoughts On Sin

[Lon]

Thoughts On Sin

Three of the worlds major religions (Christian, Jewish, Islam) believe there is SIN---These religions believe there is punishment for SINS-----All religions have their own way of interpreting what is a SIN and who SINNED against whom and it is this interpretation that leads to violence or less than peaceful actions.
All other faiths do not attach sin to a deity but more to a disruption of social or ethical codes. If there was never ever a Christian, Jewish or Islamic faith and the world's believers were Hindu, Buddhist, Baha'i, Shinto etc. do you think that the world would have enjoyed a more peaceful existence over the centuries?​

 

[AZ Jim]

In my mind and history indicates that religion has been the source of more pain and death than a lack thereof.

 

[Laurie]

A world without sin must be a pretty boring place!

 

[hollydolly]

Great question Lon... one of which I have no answer but I'd like to think that theoretically if there wasn't a ''religious sin' then perhaps the world would be a much calmer place..but somehow I'm sure that the human race will always find something to use an excuse for violence or non peaceful actions, whatever their level of moral compass !!


Jim I agree...surely religion has been at the root cause of most of the conflict in the world since man fist existed.. ?...perhaps not, but it certainly seems like it anyway

 

[Shalimar]

We are an intolerant, young, predatory species for the most part, the only one that systematically preys on itself. Hopefully as we mature, we will outgrow our need to foment violence and unrest. Until then religion is as good a reason as any to control, abuse, and kill each other--all sins in my book, with or without a theological backup.

 

[Lara]

If there was never ever a Christian, Jewish or Islamic faith...do you think that the world would have enjoyed a more peaceful existence over the centuries?

No, because despite any religion or no religion "Sin" is a reality in this world. "Good and Evil" are a reality. It is here and now. It's in every man woman and child…it's everyday and everywhere. There is greed, evil, selfishness, disrespect, unforgiveness, etc...there's always SOMEthing for SOMEone to bitch about. Some are never content and actually derive pleasure from other's pain. All of humankind are sinners on one level or another.

There is Good and Evil whether people "have religion" or not. If there was no religion, there would still be good and evil. Since man also has a choice, not all will ever be on the same page. Therefore, bad choices between good and evil will always cause conflict.

.

 

[Shirley]

IMHO, it has never really been about religion. It is about POWER. The ones seeking power have used religion as an excuse. If they hadn't had that, they would have found another excuse.

 

[Shalimar]

I am confused. I don't really understand the inclusion of psychotic disorders and insanity among the list of voluntary inappropriate behaviours. Psychosis is involuntary, not a chosen path unlike the other negative qualities listed here. These individuals are unfortunate, but often their free will is severely compromised. For those not afflicted however, choice and accountability go hand in hand. We are responsible for our actions, with or without a religious connotation of sin. Good and evil do exist. I have seen both in action up close and personal. I think blaming religion is a trap, avoiding the true question, what is wrong with the way human beings react to certain stimuli, and how can we work toward change?

 

[Lara]

...I don't really understand the inclusion of psychotic disorders and insanity among the list of voluntary inappropriate behaviours. Psychosis is involuntary, not a chosen path...

Psychopathy may be inherited (I just read that some think they are born that way, others think they are made) but it's a fact that sociopathy and insanity can, among other things, be caused by a trauma at a young age. That trauma could be as a result of sin (abusive parents, drunk driver, severe bullying, drug overdose, etc).

 

[Shalimar]

Psychopaths are not necessarily insane, although perhaps evil. Current thinking is, simply put, psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made. Equating insanity with sin, although I agree family of origin can perpetrate horrible things on children, is a slippery slope. For most of history, insanity was viewed as demonic possession, deserved by the victim as a result of sin,

karma whatever. Scary. Most insanity seems to be biochemical, a trick of the genes, like other genetically passed illnesses. Trauma if severe and sufficiently prolonged, always manifests itself in a debilitating fashion, but responds to treatment much differently than Schizophenia et al. After all, trauma is acquired, not due to faulty serotonin levels in the brain.

 

[Underock1]

I believe that religion, and I include all religions, has been, and still is, far and away the worst thing ever to be devised by human beings. The horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? A spit in the ocean compared to the thousands of years of death, torture and endless war committed in the name of religion. Add to that, generation after generation of lives lived out in fear of divine rath by people who have been told that they are miserable sinners from birth. How much further along would we have progressed without the constant suppression of any knowledge that conflicts with accepted dogma?
I apologize ahead of time if I have offended anyone. That is not my intent. More than once, we have benefited from wonderful care in a Catholic hospital. I fully acknowledge that religion has provided much comfort for the distressed, is at the forefront in humanitarian aid and has alleviated the suffering of many. I submit that all of that could be done simply by good people doing good, without all of the divisiveness that goes with "My God is better than yours."

 

[Lon]

Would we even recognize sins if there were no religions?

 

[Bobw235]

In my mind and history indicates that religion has been the source of more pain and death than a lack thereof.

I could not agree more.

 

[Debby]

Would we even recognize sins if there were no religions?

I think we would recognize 'it' but we wouldn't call it sin. We'd probably recognize it simply as behaviour that is hurtful, violent, unacceptable to either ourselves or is detrimental to 'the group/society/the world'...........the word 'sin' is a religious word that labels an assortment of behaviours, some of which the average person would shrink from and some that the average person identifies as a 'natural trait of humanity'.

 

[Warrigal]

There is Good and Evil whether people "have religion" or not. If there was no religion, there would still be good and evil. Since man also has a choice, not all will ever be on the same page. Therefore, bad choices between good and evil will always cause conflict.

IMHO, it has never really been about religion. It is about POWER. The ones seeking power have used religion as an excuse. If they hadn't had that, they would have found another excuse.

I agree with both of these observations. Sin is just a word that some religions use to describe particular flaws in human nature that we have the capacity to overcome. In the same way good and evil are labels for certain qualities of human interactions. These words are more specific than good and bad.

Love of power is a human flaw but until it is acted out it is not really a sin. We had a terrible example of this in Queensland recently. A young woman and mother left her violent and controlling husband. He chased her in her car and forced it off the road, causing it to roll down an embankment and flip over. While she was trapped upside down in the vehicle he bashed her head in using an iron bar. People rushed to restrain him but the poor woman died later in hospital. This was a criminal act but it is also a sin because even if the law permitted a man to kill his wife, it is still an evil thing to do.

Try to remember that the ancient religions operated in days when laws were very capricious. The king or chief could do whatever he wanted to. David had Bathsheba's husband killed in a treacherous act so that he could possess her. Only the prophet Nathan had the authority to confront the king with his sinfulness. No-one else would have dared.

There is still a place in our society for people to speak out against injustice. We have come forward sufficiently that secular voices are now raised in protest but they owe a debt to the religious of old, the prophets, priests and shamans who acted as a brake on unbridled power.

 

[boozercruiser]

I believe that religion, and I include all religions, has been, and still is, far and away the worst thing ever to be devised by human beings. The horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? A spit in the ocean compared to the thousands of years of death, torture and endless war committed in the name of religion. Add to that, generation after generation of lives lived out in fear of divine rath by people who have been told that they are miserable sinners from birth. How much further along would we have progressed without the constant suppression of any knowledge that conflicts with accepted dogma?
I apologize ahead of time if I have offended anyone. That is not my intent. More than once, we have benefited from wonderful care in a Catholic hospital. I fully acknowledge that religion has provided much comfort for the distressed, is at the forefront in humanitarian aid and has alleviated the suffering of many. I submit that all of that could be done simply by good people doing good, without all of the divisiveness that goes with "My God is better than yours."

And i I agree with every word you say there Underock.
Well said.

 

[AprilT]

IMHO, it has never really been about religion. It is about POWER. The ones seeking power have used religion as an excuse. If they hadn't had that, they would have found another excuse.

For the most part, I agree with the above, if nothing else, it's about control for a variety of reasons. In my mind's view, maybe some felt it was to reign in the people, possibly some had good intentions, for others it was likely just power over the people, but in my mind a bit of each, no different than the usual power struggles of today's political arenas. It would appear everything written is to counter every normal human action good or bad, plays on the fears, hopes and weaknesses of human beings. I've yet to hear of any super human species to ever live without some form of sin slipping into their way of going about their lives even if it's just a thought. There's an app for I mean there's a counter solution for that by saying let he who be without sin cast the first stone or some such thingy.

Without it would we be better off, doubt it, with it are we better off, nope, I'm pretty certain either way we'd find a way to annihilate ourselves, it's human nature, par for course, it's what our species is good at. On a good note, we are also good at doing great things in between all the mayhem and horrors as there are plenty of good natured people in the mix who keep trying to live a better day because of their nature to do as little harm as possible to others.

 

[AZ Jim]

For the most part, I agree with the above, if nothing else, it's about control for a variety of reasons. In my mind's view, maybe some felt it was to reign in the people, possibly some had good intentions, for others it was likely just power over the people, but in my mind a bit of each, no different than the usual power struggles of today's political arenas. It would appear everything written is to counter every normal human action good or bad, plays on the fears, hopes and weaknesses of human beings. I've yet to hear of any super human species to ever live without some form of sin slipping into their way of going about their lives even if it's just a thought. There's an app for I mean there's a counter solution for that by saying let he who be without sin cast the first stone or some such thingy.

Without it would we be better off, doubt it, with it are we better off, nope, I'm pretty certain either way we'd find a way to iniliate ourselves, it's human nature, par for course, it's what our species is good at. On a good note, we are also good at doing great things in between all the mayhem and horrors as there are plenty of good natured people in the mix who keep trying to live a better day because of their nature to do as little harm as possible to others.

I believe April, the reason we will never be free of these religious choke holds is simple, FEAR! What if we are wrong? Fear!

 

[Lara]

Merriam Webster defines sin as "an offense against religious or moral law". Good and evil are the choices we all have no matter what you believe. When a non-religious person chooses evil then it's called evil. When a religious person chooses evil it's called evil and it's also called sin…same thing. It's semantics. There's no discussion there.

The choices of good versus evil are inside all of us and inside religions and outside of religions and outside of all of us. So whether there will be peace in the world has nothing to do with only religion. It has to do with everything outside of religion as well.

People who go to war in the name of their religion are wrong. People who go to war for in the name of greed and hostility are wrong. Remember, "Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me"? It's all about how we each handle temptations, choices, adversity, etc. And frankly, we all fail sometimes. It has nothing to do with placing blame on one group.

 

[Underock1]

And i I agree with every word you say there Underock.
Well said.

Thank you boozer. I have qualms about posting things like that, because it is hurtful to good people who truly believe.
Unfortunately, being retired, I flip past the religious channels on my TV on a regular basis. The mind poison and exploitation of the weakest that I see make me want to vomit. There are Catholics, Jews, main line Protestants, and Fundamentalists, all beating their own drums and promoting their own particular absurdities as "The Truth!"

 

[Warrigal]

There are some people who do not recognise the existence of good or evil, people for whom no sin exists except thinking makes it so.
These people are neither moral nor immoral. They are amoral and they are the most dangerous of us all.

 

[Lara]

I flip past the religious channels on my TV on a regular basis. The mind poison and exploitation of the weakest that I see make me want to vomit. There are Catholics, Jews, main line Protestants, and Fundamentalists, all beating their own drums and promoting their own particular absurdities as "The Truth!"

If it makes you vomit then why subject yourself to it? I noticed your profile says, "Religions" under the subject of "Interests". Do you enjoy pain? I'm sorry to point out the melodrama in this post but I have an obvious question…You wouldn't be beating YOUR own drum and promoting YOUR own belief, that they are wrong, as the "The Truth", would you?

 

[tnthomas]

After all, trauma is acquired, not due to faulty serotonin levels in the brain.

Doesn't trauma(like PTSD) affect serotonin levels as well?

 

[tnthomas]

I agree with both of these observations. Sin is just a word that some religions use to describe particular flaws in human nature that we have the capacity to overcome. In the same way good and evil are labels for certain qualities of human interactions. These words are more specific than good and bad.

Love of power is a human flaw but until it is acted out it is not really a sin. We had a terrible example of this in Queensland recently. A young woman and mother left her violent and controlling husband. He chased her in her car and forced it off the road, causing it to roll down an embankment and flip over. While she was trapped upside down in the vehicle he bashed her head in using an iron bar. People rushed to restrain him but the poor woman died later in hospital. This was a criminal act but it is also a sin because even if the law permitted a man to kill his wife, it is still an evil thing to do.

Try to remember that the ancient religions operated in days when laws were very capricious. The king or chief could do whatever he wanted to. David had Bathsheba's husband killed in a treacherous act so that he could possess her. Only the prophet Nathan had the authority to confront the king with his sinfulness. No-one else would have dared.

There is still a place in our society for people to speak out against injustice. We have come forward sufficiently that secular voices are now raised in protest but they owe a debt to the religious of old, the prophets, priests and shamans who acted as a brake on unbridled power.

All great points, thanks for the thoughtful post.

 

[Underock1]

If it makes you vomit then why subject yourself to it? I noticed your profile says, "Religions" under the subject of "Interests". Do you enjoy pain? I'm sorry to point out the melodrama in this post but I have an obvious question…You wouldn't be beating YOUR own drum and promoting YOUR own belief, that they are wrong, as the "The Truth", would you?

As I pointed out, Lara, I flip by a collection of channels and see this stuff. No. I don't enjoy pain, that's why I hate to see it being inflicted on others. Oh, I absolutely am beating my own drum. With all due respect, I believe I hear a few flourishes coming from your own on occasion. I believe I did apologize ahead of time if others found my post offensive. The apology still stands, but I believe I am entitled to express my opinion. The opposite view has no qualms about expressing theirs at every opportunity. I still think you're a nice person. Love your art.