David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
On this 2025 Easter, I’ll post as a draft, this short essay on God and Jesus. No entities I am aware of have been whispering into my mind so the below is speculation. So please don’t change your own religious beliefs because of the below but consider such with a grain of salt. I’m not asking to argue these ideas with members but rather offering unique ways for humans to think.
I am a Christian and by choice, choose to believe in Jesus and God’s gift of possible eternal life even though I don’t feel certain nor ever expect to. In fact, I will attend Easter mass tomorrow morning as I have not abandoned the church Jesus started and its many well-meaning people merely because of disagreements with dogma and or acts of others.
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I’ve speculated for years that what people refer to as the Christian god is not as portrayed by Christian church dogmas. Most importantly, the dogma that god has Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent (OOO) powers that are described as abilities to do anything imaginable, even if physically magic like. There are two primary reasons I rejected that dogma.
First, there is no scripture in the Bible beyond vague descriptions of his power as “almighty” or oral history of seeming acts that to ancients would seem to be beyond what is physically possible. There is an enormous amount of supposed inspired dogma beneficial to churches out of OOO that says much as to why they were motivated to and developed those beliefs. Earlier civilizations were dominantly polytheistic with their different gods having different powers. This book has explored the subject:
https://www.academia.edu/70452505/The_Problem_of_God_in_Modern_Thought
The notion of an infinitely perfect being was a core presupposition of the Scholastic and late medieval period. How did God become a problem in modern thought? Clayton here offers a one-volume history of philosophical theology from the dawn of the modern period through most of German Idealism. In particular, he shows how early modern approaches from Descartes to Leibnitz were dominated by a medieval metaphysics of perfection that was unable to survive the growth of modern science and the challenges raised by Kant…
OOO philosophies grew out of idealistic neoplatism by philosophers in the Middle Ages. From a reddit thread:
...It's not actually a thing in Christian Scripture. According to an ancient Christian history professor I once heard, it started with Plato. My understanding is that he argued that instead of the diverse gods with diverse powers, diverse knowledge, and diverse locations, he suggested there might be just one god who would have all powers (omnipotent), all knowledge (omniscient) and belong to all places (omnipresent). This is somewhat different from how those terms are commonly understood today.
Plato's thought was imported into Christian theology primarily through Augustine of Hippo around 400CE. He was a neoplatonist before he became a Christian, and after his conversion did a lot to integrate the two disparate belief systems. His ideas remain profoundly influential to this day. There are Christian theologians who challenge the omnimax conception of God as being un-Biblical...
The second primary reason as a person well grounded in logic, is that actions without forces in a matter/energy universe don’t happen as that is illogical nonsense magic. So no rabbits can ever materialize out of magician hats. Thus those OOO narratives created by philosophers during the Middle Ages should be abandoned just as aspects of various embellished nonsense stories in Genesis ought be changed.
For instance, the Flood was not global but rather local within Mesopotamia with the Ark carrying domesticated and other useful and nearby wild animals and NOT every creature on Earth. And NO Adam and Eve were not the first homo sapiens. The old Testament itself even indirectly states that about Genesis 4:14.
Of course, to science primitives, Jesus walking on water of the Sea of Galilee would seem miraculous. To advanced science and technology beings he might simply have been walking atop a level submarine deck a few inches deep in sea water. Others might whine that Jesus or God wouldn’t trick we humans so. But consider how God and Jesus never describe in Bible scripture how their miraculous acts are performed and rather leave such to the imagination of science primitive men. So when Jesus performed supposed miracles, he was not explaining how.
Christians have done much good in the world but in balance, history is also full of horrible things men did to other humans for the sake of supposed religious reasons. If God was affecting, correcting things in the church Jesus began, surely those things would be queued up far higher than explaining how he cured some blind person. But there has been no inspirations guiding against such evils even to any well meaning arguably moral popes and religious leaders. If God and his race of angels tried to explain such things, there would be endless additional technical questions to follow. So, it is quite probable, they let humans think whatever and further never corrected what they incorrectly recorded.
Others might point to Jesus’s miraculous healings. Well to a race of ancient billions of years old beings (UIEs) that are likely mostly non-organic to be immortal, and propagated DNA life in this universe, they would have the ability using biological microbots to do amazing things. Scriptural miracles due to the nature of oral tradition, may not be exactly what happened for the sake of entertaining audiences. Note, I also reject biblical inerrancy and rather embrace oral tradition that is never exact. What was described as instantaneous may have taken time after being repeated over many generations. A long list of such scriptural miracle stories may likewise be explained away.
My suspicion is that planet Earth is an evolving DNA organic preserve partially engineered and at least occasionally affected by UIEs. That UIEs visited Earth because after civilizations developed 8,000+ years ago, they felt a need to correct the constant murderous, warmongering atrocities evildoers perpetrated on their neighbors. Anyone reading about the now uncovered and deciphered clay tablet writings of Ubaid, Sumerian, and Akadian earliest civilization cultures will quickly see why they may have felt a need to interfere. There are several current YouTube videos on such research.
So what of Jesus? Well Adam and Eve were obviously not ordinary homo sapiens because they lived for hundreds of years, as long as 969 years. That suggests these UIEs were trying to improve on ordinary humans and were able to extend their lives greatly via genetic improvements. And the so-called “Tree of Life” may have further been a source of supplemental nutrients impossible to grow within creature bodies to keep them alive far longer if they had only passed God’s moral tests. Just like we humans with our pets, such beings would feel pain when those they loved died and ended.
At some time, the leader of the race of angels I expect is what Christianity calls God, arrived to evaluate what his angels had created but that didn’t meet some critical moral threshold so genetic improvements were abandoned. That could be the source of the simplistic eating forbidden fruit story. Instead, they realized removing all man’s competitive and creative drives were impractical because our creature natures were too physically ingrained into our beings. And that flawed moral nature was then called “Original Sin”.
For centuries scholars argued how could a virgin Mary have given birth to Jesus? That is easily explained today. Anyone that has been given an anesthestic like propofol for a surgical operation will note it is not at all like sleep. Instead, regardless of how long, minutes, to hours, to days will seem like a blank instant as one’s aware electromagnetic brain waves fully disappear. UIEs would be capable of instantly putting any humans into such a state and upon awakening would not be aware time had passed.
Thus, the angel Gabriel could have put Mary into such a state and then UIEs would be able to surgically implant specially preserved DNA sperm developed from Adam’s lineage. In the same way, this person over my lifetime, especially since I’ve spent much time out in remote wilderness areas, could have had most anything placed into or done to my own body or had complete brain scans performed.
For two millennia, UIEs tried to change humans but as scripture relates, human immorality only got worse, especially warmongering and killing. At some point UIEs may have decided it was enough so Jesus was born to complete that final try after which they would leave the future to Peter and his church.
It seems UIEs, despite the resurrection and the clearly stated gift of eternal life for believers, didn’t expect that would be successful. When The Way did have momentum, Jesus got Paul with his Greek and Jewish education and writing skills involved as the 12 apostles were primitive illiterates. That killed two birds with one stone as Saul also was the prime persecutor. After the 3 uninspired synoptic gospels were spread first via oral tradition and eventually written down, John’s arguably inspired gospel was created to fill in important information Jesus and UIEs felt was critical.
As for the physical possibility of eternal life, for the sake of keeping this essay short, will leave those details for another day. I’ve already posted on earlier threads that our animal creature minds are electromagnetic phenomenon within organic neural system containers. Create a special water electrolyte container with similar impedance characteristics and minds might be duplicated. What scripture calls "spirit" is probably electromagnetic brain wave phenomenon.
I am a Christian and by choice, choose to believe in Jesus and God’s gift of possible eternal life even though I don’t feel certain nor ever expect to. In fact, I will attend Easter mass tomorrow morning as I have not abandoned the church Jesus started and its many well-meaning people merely because of disagreements with dogma and or acts of others.
------------
I’ve speculated for years that what people refer to as the Christian god is not as portrayed by Christian church dogmas. Most importantly, the dogma that god has Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent (OOO) powers that are described as abilities to do anything imaginable, even if physically magic like. There are two primary reasons I rejected that dogma.
First, there is no scripture in the Bible beyond vague descriptions of his power as “almighty” or oral history of seeming acts that to ancients would seem to be beyond what is physically possible. There is an enormous amount of supposed inspired dogma beneficial to churches out of OOO that says much as to why they were motivated to and developed those beliefs. Earlier civilizations were dominantly polytheistic with their different gods having different powers. This book has explored the subject:
https://www.academia.edu/70452505/The_Problem_of_God_in_Modern_Thought
The notion of an infinitely perfect being was a core presupposition of the Scholastic and late medieval period. How did God become a problem in modern thought? Clayton here offers a one-volume history of philosophical theology from the dawn of the modern period through most of German Idealism. In particular, he shows how early modern approaches from Descartes to Leibnitz were dominated by a medieval metaphysics of perfection that was unable to survive the growth of modern science and the challenges raised by Kant…
OOO philosophies grew out of idealistic neoplatism by philosophers in the Middle Ages. From a reddit thread:
...It's not actually a thing in Christian Scripture. According to an ancient Christian history professor I once heard, it started with Plato. My understanding is that he argued that instead of the diverse gods with diverse powers, diverse knowledge, and diverse locations, he suggested there might be just one god who would have all powers (omnipotent), all knowledge (omniscient) and belong to all places (omnipresent). This is somewhat different from how those terms are commonly understood today.
Plato's thought was imported into Christian theology primarily through Augustine of Hippo around 400CE. He was a neoplatonist before he became a Christian, and after his conversion did a lot to integrate the two disparate belief systems. His ideas remain profoundly influential to this day. There are Christian theologians who challenge the omnimax conception of God as being un-Biblical...
The second primary reason as a person well grounded in logic, is that actions without forces in a matter/energy universe don’t happen as that is illogical nonsense magic. So no rabbits can ever materialize out of magician hats. Thus those OOO narratives created by philosophers during the Middle Ages should be abandoned just as aspects of various embellished nonsense stories in Genesis ought be changed.
For instance, the Flood was not global but rather local within Mesopotamia with the Ark carrying domesticated and other useful and nearby wild animals and NOT every creature on Earth. And NO Adam and Eve were not the first homo sapiens. The old Testament itself even indirectly states that about Genesis 4:14.
Of course, to science primitives, Jesus walking on water of the Sea of Galilee would seem miraculous. To advanced science and technology beings he might simply have been walking atop a level submarine deck a few inches deep in sea water. Others might whine that Jesus or God wouldn’t trick we humans so. But consider how God and Jesus never describe in Bible scripture how their miraculous acts are performed and rather leave such to the imagination of science primitive men. So when Jesus performed supposed miracles, he was not explaining how.
Christians have done much good in the world but in balance, history is also full of horrible things men did to other humans for the sake of supposed religious reasons. If God was affecting, correcting things in the church Jesus began, surely those things would be queued up far higher than explaining how he cured some blind person. But there has been no inspirations guiding against such evils even to any well meaning arguably moral popes and religious leaders. If God and his race of angels tried to explain such things, there would be endless additional technical questions to follow. So, it is quite probable, they let humans think whatever and further never corrected what they incorrectly recorded.
Others might point to Jesus’s miraculous healings. Well to a race of ancient billions of years old beings (UIEs) that are likely mostly non-organic to be immortal, and propagated DNA life in this universe, they would have the ability using biological microbots to do amazing things. Scriptural miracles due to the nature of oral tradition, may not be exactly what happened for the sake of entertaining audiences. Note, I also reject biblical inerrancy and rather embrace oral tradition that is never exact. What was described as instantaneous may have taken time after being repeated over many generations. A long list of such scriptural miracle stories may likewise be explained away.
My suspicion is that planet Earth is an evolving DNA organic preserve partially engineered and at least occasionally affected by UIEs. That UIEs visited Earth because after civilizations developed 8,000+ years ago, they felt a need to correct the constant murderous, warmongering atrocities evildoers perpetrated on their neighbors. Anyone reading about the now uncovered and deciphered clay tablet writings of Ubaid, Sumerian, and Akadian earliest civilization cultures will quickly see why they may have felt a need to interfere. There are several current YouTube videos on such research.
So what of Jesus? Well Adam and Eve were obviously not ordinary homo sapiens because they lived for hundreds of years, as long as 969 years. That suggests these UIEs were trying to improve on ordinary humans and were able to extend their lives greatly via genetic improvements. And the so-called “Tree of Life” may have further been a source of supplemental nutrients impossible to grow within creature bodies to keep them alive far longer if they had only passed God’s moral tests. Just like we humans with our pets, such beings would feel pain when those they loved died and ended.
At some time, the leader of the race of angels I expect is what Christianity calls God, arrived to evaluate what his angels had created but that didn’t meet some critical moral threshold so genetic improvements were abandoned. That could be the source of the simplistic eating forbidden fruit story. Instead, they realized removing all man’s competitive and creative drives were impractical because our creature natures were too physically ingrained into our beings. And that flawed moral nature was then called “Original Sin”.
For centuries scholars argued how could a virgin Mary have given birth to Jesus? That is easily explained today. Anyone that has been given an anesthestic like propofol for a surgical operation will note it is not at all like sleep. Instead, regardless of how long, minutes, to hours, to days will seem like a blank instant as one’s aware electromagnetic brain waves fully disappear. UIEs would be capable of instantly putting any humans into such a state and upon awakening would not be aware time had passed.
Thus, the angel Gabriel could have put Mary into such a state and then UIEs would be able to surgically implant specially preserved DNA sperm developed from Adam’s lineage. In the same way, this person over my lifetime, especially since I’ve spent much time out in remote wilderness areas, could have had most anything placed into or done to my own body or had complete brain scans performed.
For two millennia, UIEs tried to change humans but as scripture relates, human immorality only got worse, especially warmongering and killing. At some point UIEs may have decided it was enough so Jesus was born to complete that final try after which they would leave the future to Peter and his church.
It seems UIEs, despite the resurrection and the clearly stated gift of eternal life for believers, didn’t expect that would be successful. When The Way did have momentum, Jesus got Paul with his Greek and Jewish education and writing skills involved as the 12 apostles were primitive illiterates. That killed two birds with one stone as Saul also was the prime persecutor. After the 3 uninspired synoptic gospels were spread first via oral tradition and eventually written down, John’s arguably inspired gospel was created to fill in important information Jesus and UIEs felt was critical.
As for the physical possibility of eternal life, for the sake of keeping this essay short, will leave those details for another day. I’ve already posted on earlier threads that our animal creature minds are electromagnetic phenomenon within organic neural system containers. Create a special water electrolyte container with similar impedance characteristics and minds might be duplicated. What scripture calls "spirit" is probably electromagnetic brain wave phenomenon.
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