Guns- Educate Me.

Underock1

Underock1

Senior Member
Location
Suburban NJ
This is for the Canadians, Brits, Aussies, and any other non-US inhabitant. What are the gun laws like in your country, and more importantly what are your own feelings about the culture surrounding them?
I am not on a crusade here. I would just like your feed back.
While I would like to see the guns gone here, they are not really the whole story when it comes to these shootings. Its the culture we live in that's producing a lot of sick people. Some times they even run for President.
We must frighten the daylights out of the rest of the world. Not because of our military might, but because we're nuts!
 

I of course am a brit Underock1.
Gun laws are very strict here and one has to have a licence to own one.
These are only granted under very strict contitions.

Of course the vast majority of our police don't carry guns either.

And any policy whereby practically any nut case can go and buy a gun is well.
NUTS!
 
Whether it be the high price of prescription drugs, the exhorbitant cost of military weapons, millions of dollars for a bridge to nowhere... or slaughter by firearm... our Country today is completely legislated by dollars. Whoever has the best paid lobbyists to make the largest campaign contributions to elected officials get the nod on legislation.
The gun lobby in America spends billions on "buying" Congressmen. Everything is done under the guise of the 2nd Amendment to our Constitution. The statement "a well regulated militia" has been interpreted that any and all gun laws are a restriction to the freedoms afforded under that Amendment. The gun lobby keeps the responsible gun owners fired up in order to keep the flow of firearms unrestricted, even to those who are mentally deranged. It IS a political issue that has seen 41 shooting on school campuses already this year. That is unacceptable, but will be ignored by the gun lobby.

As the President stated this afternoon, we need to look more at the gun laws of England and/or Australia. Won't happen as long as the dollars continue to be pumped into Congress. Students and other innocents will continue spilling their blood on classroom floors until some semblance of common sense overrides lobby dollars.

No one wants to take away the firearms of responsible owners. What is needed are a couple simple things. If you want to own a firearm in America, you sign authorization to have your HIPPA file opened. (HIPPA) is your private medical record file. If you have been treated for any mental disorder, you cannot own a firearm. Second, if you give/sell/bequeath a firearm to someone you know has had mental issues, you are culpable for any crimes committed with that firearm. Lastly, ALL firearm transactions should be required to have criminal background checks. Currently, private sales and sales at small-town gun shows are exempt for background checks.
 

Not intending to "bust open" the nest of wasps, but an old adage from long ago, said something like, "If everyone had a gun, there would soon be no criminals."

What does it mean? First, those considering becoming criminals would have lingering second thoughts about doing so.

Second, those already criminals, will not likely get away with exercising another crime.

Third, those law-abiding folks who are not, and will never be, criminally-inclined, pose no threat to anyone other than criminals.

imp
 
imp said:
Not intending to "bust open" the nest of wasps, but an old adage from long ago, said something like, "If everyone had a gun, there would soon be no criminals."

What does it mean? First, those considering becoming criminals would have lingering second thoughts about doing so.

Second, those already criminals, will not likely get away with exercising another crime.

Third, those law-abiding folks who are not, and will never be, criminally-inclined, pose no threat to anyone other than criminals.

imp
Click to expand...

Tired old cop out and a load of BS..... I'm not even going to debate this nonsense.. I predicted this was coming in the other thread... I was just wondering who would be the first to puke it out... You win the prize...
 
imp said:
Not intending to "bust open" the nest of wasps, but an old adage from long ago, said something like, "If everyone had a gun, there would soon be no criminals."

What does it mean? First, those considering becoming criminals would have lingering second thoughts about doing so.

Second, those already criminals, will not likely get away with exercising another crime.

Third, those law-abiding folks who are not, and will never be, criminally-inclined, pose no threat to anyone other than criminals.

imp
Click to expand...
Well, you asked for that "nest of wasps"!!!! Any statement such as "If everyone had a gun, soon there would be no criminals" is absurd. Hand a firearm to those mentally deranged... someone dies. Hand a firearm to those who have been convicted of violent crimes, done time in prison, and are back on the streets... someone dies. How many innocent lives would be taken before there were "no criminals"?? How could anyone assume that it would be the law-abiding who prevail? Does some gene guarantee that a law-abiding citizen is a better shot or "quicker on the draw"???

I guess history proves that both England and Australia should have armed every single one of their citizens, instead of having some of the lowest homicide rates in today's world.
 
Grumpy Ol' Man said:
Whether it be the high price of prescription drugs, the exhorbitant cost of military weapons, millions of dollars for a bridge to nowhere... or slaughter by firearm... our Country today is completely legislated by dollars. Whoever has the best paid lobbyists to make the largest campaign contributions to elected officials get the nod on legislation.
The gun lobby in America spends billions on "buying" Congressmen. Everything is done under the guise of the 2nd Amendment to our Constitution. The statement "a well regulated militia" has been interpreted that any and all gun laws are a restriction to the freedoms afforded under that Amendment. The gun lobby keeps the responsible gun owners fired up in order to keep the flow of firearms unrestricted, even to those who are mentally deranged. It IS a political issue that has seen 41 shooting on school campuses already this year. That is unacceptable, but will be ignored by the gun lobby.

As the President stated this afternoon, we need to look more at the gun laws of England and/or Australia. Won't happen as long as the dollars continue to be pumped into Congress. Students and other innocents will continue spilling their blood on classroom floors until some semblance of common sense overrides lobby dollars.

No one wants to take away the firearms of responsible owners. What is needed are a couple simple things. If you want to own a firearm in America, you sign authorization to have your HIPPA file opened. (HIPPA) is your private medical record file. If you have been treated for any mental disorder, you cannot own a firearm. Second, if you give/sell/bequeath a firearm to someone you know has had mental issues, you are culpable for any crimes committed with that firearm. Lastly, ALL firearm transactions should be required to have criminal background checks. Currently, private sales and sales at small-town gun shows are exempt for background checks.
Click to expand...

:applause2::applause2::applause2:
 
I'm a regular on several UK senior and dog sites. You want to know how they see us? Visualize a really bad video of someone walking into Wally World. As you walk through the crowds every man, woman, child, banger and banjo picker has a visible weapon. Welcome to Americka. You want to know something I saw the other day? I was leafing through a Men's Journal just because Anthony Bourdain is on the cover. There's a full page advertisement for a clothes line called 511Tactical. The tagline is "Proven Like You". Apparently clothes designed to hold your weapon at the ready. Oh I just had to look at the site, even as it makes me wince...yup, everybody armed to the teeth.
http://www.511tactical.com/mens.html
You just know this is a US of A based company
 
QuickSilver said:
Tired old cop out and a load of BS..... I'm not even going to debate this nonsense.. I predicted this was coming in the other thread... I was just wondering who would be the first to puke it out... You win the prize...
Click to expand...

Just because you don't like the words you call it a load of BS. Well, as long as we have President that won't stand on his own two feet and give his idea to the Congress to be debated it won't happen either. As long as our Congress agrees there should be no changes to our Constitution there won't be any changes. As long as most of the population agrees, don't mess with the Constitution, there should not be any changes.

In the mean time we have a big mess of illegal, unregistered guns, in the hands of dead beats and if any guns should be removed, those are the ones to go get.
 
imp said:
Not intending to "bust open" the nest of wasps, but an old adage from long ago, said something like, "If everyone had a gun, there would soon be no criminals."

What does it mean? First, those considering becoming criminals would have lingering second thoughts about doing so.

Second, those already criminals, will not likely get away with exercising another crime.

Third, those law-abiding folks who are not, and will never be, criminally-inclined, pose no threat to anyone other than criminals.

imp
Click to expand...

The criminals will always have the better guns and know how to use them. In a contest with the latest shooter are you suggesting that everyone in the class room would whip out their trusty six shooter and gun him down?

Criminals don't have lingering second thoughts about anything. Many, if not most are desperate people willing to risk all.
The mentally deranged responsible for these incidents are often expecting, if not actually hoping to die.

Then there are all of the gun accidents at home that would and do occur simply because the gun is in the home and people are careless.
 
The Australian solution will not work in America for a number of reasons.

First, although like the USA we are a federation of states, we only have 6 states, not 50, so getting commonwealth/state co-operation is not such a difficult problem.

Secondly, unlike the US which manufactures firearms to the world, we rely on importing most of ours so the federal government by virtue of its powers can prohibit certain imports i.e. certain classes of weaponry and there is a long list of things you cannot import, and not just guns.

Last, we have no bill of rights that can be used to justify a universal right to own a firearm.
People need to apply for a licence and have a very good reason for needing one.
Self defence is not a sufficient reason for firearm ownership.
A gun register is maintained so that police know when they are called to a property whether they are likely or not to be confronted with an angry armed man.

Having said that, this link explains something of what happens over here:

https://www.ag.gov.au/CRIMEANDCORRUPTION/FIREARMS/Pages/default.aspx
 
Thanks Warri. Sensible laws. What will they think of next? You were kind not to list "because you're all sick" as a reason why it wouldn't work here
 
Glad you asked Underock. Re gun control. No guns without a background check--two month wait if you are lucky. Even if no impediments, must show just cause to need a weapon. Papers to transport rifle to shooting range required. Very difficult to get a handgun permit. Very limited in what type of handgun permitted, same deal with ammo. We like this, it seems sensible. We are leery of shooting people in our homes. (home invasion.) Unless one can prove a life threatening situation existed, crimes against property is not a viable excuse. We kill the intruder, we go to jail. Of course, very few people are shot by burglers here. Owning guns is seen as a privilege, not a right. Given that our homicide rate continues to fall, I believe our attitude re gun control is obviously a good thing. I recall the surprise exhibited by an American police officer on holiday in Calgary during Stampede week, incensed because he had not been permitted to bring his gun across the border. He was freaked about how to
protect himself on the mean streets of Calgary?????? Different mind set to be sure.
 
Interesting as in Switzerland there are guns in almost every home and they do carry them openly on transports and into restaurants. Especially on their gun shooting days. They don't have all the shootings the US seems to be having lately.

We do need to tighten up our registrations an make sure the mental types never get permission. Many of the guns are floating around in the criminal areas. Somehow we need to get them off the streets.
 
QuickSilver said:
Tired old cop out and a load of BS..... I'm not even going to debate this nonsense.. I predicted this was coming in the other thread... I was just wondering who would be the first to puke it out... You win the prize...
Click to expand...

Go ahead, then, and "outlaw" the myriad of non-gun objects used to commit crimes. Then we can all puke over it. imp
 
Warrigal said:
The Australian solution will not work in America for a number of reasons.

First, although like the USA we are a federation of states, we only have 6 states, not 50, so getting commonwealth/state co-operation is not such a difficult problem.

Secondly, unlike the US which manufactures firearms to the world, we rely on importing most of ours so the federal government by virtue of its powers can prohibit certain imports i.e. certain classes of weaponry and there is a long list of things you cannot import, and not just guns.

Last, we have no bill of rights that can be used to justify a universal right to own a firearm.
People need to apply for a licence and have a very good reason for needing one.
Self defence is not a sufficient reason for firearm ownership.
A gun register is maintained so that police know when they are called to a property whether they are likely or not to be confronted with an angry armed man.

Having said that, this link explains something of what happens over here:

https://www.ag.gov.au/CRIMEANDCORRUPTION/FIREARMS/Pages/default.aspx
Click to expand...

Maybe in this proposed new way of running your government you might have some written guarantees for the people. I know it is not happening right now, but it is not a dead subject either.

And here is a list of weapons manufacturers in the world. A lot more than just the US.

http://www.waoline.com/detente/sport/hunt-/ArcheryLinks/ArmsLinks.htm
 
Underock1 said:
Thanks Warri. Sensible laws. What will they think of next? You were kind not to list "because you're all sick" as a reason why it wouldn't work here
Click to expand...

I don't believe that you are all sick at all. I do recognise the role of history and custom as an influence on national thinking. The US was once a post revolutionary society and later a post civil war society. These major historical events have cast long shadows into the present. However, I do not believe that any society need be held hostage to the past when history has clearly moved on.
 
BobF said:
Interesting as in Switzerland there are guns in almost every home and they do carry them openly on transports and into restaurants. Especially on their gun shooting days. They don't have all the shootings the US seems to be having lately.

We do need to tighten up our registrations an make sure the mental types never get permission. Many of the guns are floating around in the criminal areas. Somehow we need to get them off the streets.
Click to expand...

Unless Switzerland has changed it's basic laws, all able-bodied young men (do not know today about women) must spend a certain amount of training in military exercises. Each is issued a machine-gun, which is intended to be kept for life. There is hardly an unarmed residence in Switzerland. Do they have crime? Sure. Lots of it? No. Different cultural mindset.

Curiously, in direct opposition to the city-folk here who advocate gun controls, our largest gun-controlled cities had, and have, the highest incidence of gun-related crime, Chicago and New York City among them. imp
 
imp said:
Go ahead, then, and "outlaw" the myriad of non-gun objects used to commit crimes. Then we can all puke over it. imp
Click to expand...
Columbine... Newtown... Navy recruiting station... Today's college massacre... Are you serious that we would have see that many lives snuffed out and that many families burying their loved ones had the deranged killers had scissors or a claw hammer or even a machete?? Today's autoloading weapons have the ability of store 12 to 15 lethal rounds of ammunition in the clips. Even without reloading, a dozen or more can die. The red herring of outlawing skillets because some deranged housewife used one against her husband's head is a slap in the face to those who have buried their children shot dead by gunmen who should never have laid a hand on a firearm.
 
BobF said:
here is a list of weapons manufacturers in the world. A lot more than just the US.
http://www.waoline.com/detente/sport/hunt-/ArcheryLinks/ArmsLinks.htm
Click to expand...

You're missing my point Bob. Because we have no significant manufacturers of firearms in Australia, the Commonwealth government is able to exercise control on the types of firearms allowed into the country. You do not have that luxury because most of the firearms in the US are home grown and prohibiting imports wouldn't do a thing.

As I said earlier, the Australian solution won't work in the US because the background circumstances are markedly different.
The US problem needs a US solution.

As to writing a bill of rights into the Australian constitution should we ever make the move to a republic, majority opinion over here wants no bar of that because we have seen how things operate in in the US. We prefer to deal with cultural and social issues such as civil rights as the issues arise and do it by means of legislation rather than amending the constitution.
 
Warrigal said:
I don't believe that you are all sick at all. I do recognise the role of history and custom as an influence on national thinking. The US was once a post revolutionary society and later a post civil war society. These major historical events have cast long shadows into the present. However, I do not believe that any society need be held hostage to the past when history has clearly moved on.
Click to expand...


Yeah too many people here think they are cowboys at the shoot out at the OK corral....
 

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