The President's Speech

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maxHR said:
Until there is a mass shooting in the congress, nothing will be done.
america even seems happy to sacrifice its babies while they are at school
because if nothing was done after Sandy Hook nothing will be done, ...ever.
For a country that holds itself up as shining example of democracy and the rule of law
why do people feel they need guns to prevent an 'out of control' government/military?
To an outsider, US gun culture has all the hallmarks of an addiction just like Ice drug addiction.
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Don't count on it. We had a congress woman shot in Arizona... Gabby Gifford.... not a freaking thing happened to gun laws.. We will go through this over and over... after each shooting... people will talk about how something needs to be done... The NRA will stay silent for a few weeks... Then make the usual statement that we need more guns not less... and everyone will go back to their corners.. until the NEXT shooting.
 

Something more sinister than guns is our problem. What is under all the shootings. I say it is in the way we are bringing up children and our lifestyles.

Something not mentioned in any of these ramblings about guns mentions the mind sets of the guilty. Many were mental patients and are now, according to court decisions, getting sent to mental control places. We have mental discoveries protected and not shared with gun control efforts, as I understand it, so some folks get permission to own guns when they should not.

We know little about this current shooter so we just blame the guns.
 
BobF said:
Something more sinister than guns is our problem. What is under all the shootings. I say it is in the way we are bringing up children and our lifestyles.

Something not mentioned in any of these ramblings about guns mentions the mind sets of the guilty. Many were mental patients and are now, according to court decisions, getting sent to mental control places. We have mental discoveries protected and not shared with gun control efforts, as I understand it, so some folks get permission to own guns when they should not.

We know little about this current shooter so we just blame the guns.
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If you think about it in detail what kind of person go up to strangers and have no compunction shooting them in the head this is what scares me more than a gun or even bomb.

Then again these killers get free publicity. Not saying their name is a symbolic gesture. What the media in particular needs to do is describe their acts for what they are, a cowardly act of a very perverse individual. And rather than looking for excuses what about personal responsibility for this and other acts & behaviors.

People with this type of rage won't stop at guns. Kacyznski's rage turned to bombs and/or "cause". Some say Hitler was a rage filled frustrated arteest. ISIS is current home of the rage filled psychopath-why would a person join a cult or movement that has zero respect for life and wants to kill it in some of the most brutal ways possible.

Not surprised at this response especially now with a press that asks questions like a couple of people sitting in a bar-What do you think about this...
 
BobF said:
Something more sinister than guns is our problem. What is under all the shootings. I say it is in the way we are bringing up children and our lifestyles.

Something not mentioned in any of these ramblings about guns mentions the mind sets of the guilty. Many were mental patients and are now, according to court decisions, getting sent to mental control places. We have mental discoveries protected and not shared with gun control efforts, as I understand it, so some folks get permission to own guns when they should not.

We know little about this current shooter so we just blame the guns.
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Of course it's not the GUN Bob... It's an unstable person WITH the gun... BUT.. if he didn't have a gun, he couldn't have killed and injured so many as he did.. could he... SO the thing is to keep guns out of the hands of people like this... don't you agree?

I get so tired of people saying "IT"S NOT THE GUN THAT KILLS..IT"S THE PEOPLE... OF course it's the people!! That is why we want regulations and background checks done on the PEOPLE... not the gun.
 
Hitler may have been a frustrated artiste, but he was also a psychopathic junkie/narcissist. A time bomb waiting to happen. He would have found a way to vent his rage regardless of the circumstances in which he lived. I shudder to think what he could have perpetrated in the 21st century. I suspect he could have made Isis look like a wannabe.
 
QuickSilver said:
Of course it's not the GUN Bob... It's an unstable person WITH the gun... BUT.. if he didn't have a gun, he couldn't have killed and injured so many as he did.. could he... SO the thing is to keep guns out of the hands of people like this... don't you agree?

I get so tired of people saying "IT"S NOT THE GUN THAT KILLS..IT"S THE PEOPLE... OF course it's the people!! That is why we want regulations and background checks done on the PEOPLE... not the gun.
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But that commonly used "if" statement is a hypothetical, post game commentary. What happened here? In detail what law was broken or not followed in this case? At what point does a person like this get put into a computer system as not being able to buy a gun? Did he do something in high school, his old state? Was he under psychiatric care? Do we really want a Minority Report society.

In detail, what happened here with this killer?
 
WhatInThe said:
But that commonly used "if" statement is a hypothetical, post game commentary. What happened here? In detail what law was broken or not followed in this case? At what point does a person like this get put into a computer system as not being able to buy a gun? Did he do something in high school, his old state? Was he under psychiatric care? Do we really want a Minority Report society.

In detail, what happened here with this killer?
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Well... we have never gotten to the point of making those decisions... any sort of gun control or regulation including background checks at gun shows and online purchases has been a nonstarter and has never been seriously debated has it. Besides... nothing is known of this killer other than he obviously shouldn't have had a gun...
 
QuickSilver said:
Of course it's not the GUN Bob... It's an unstable person WITH the gun... BUT.. if he didn't have a gun, he couldn't have killed and injured so many as he did.. could he... SO the thing is to keep guns out of the hands of people like this... don't you agree?

I get so tired of people saying "IT"S NOT THE GUN THAT KILLS..IT"S THE PEOPLE... OF course it's the people!! That is why we want regulations and background checks done on the PEOPLE... not the gun.
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Then why won't the courts allow the medical folks to tell the gun control folks who should not be allowed to have a gun. Our system is broken and that is one reason our not so brilliant ones get guns. It is not the guns, it is the crazed and criminals that are the problem. Something too hard for some to accept. Fix our system and see if that helps. But no matter what as there are those that just want to take guns from the people for unknown and unreal reasons.
 
There's no point analysing individual particular shootings......there's way too many. It should be obvious that America is experiencing all these massacres because it's all too easy for the mentally ill and those with anger management issues or personality disorders to get their hands on firearms. If you're serious about remedying this situation make it that to own a firearm you have to prove that you NEED one.
 
Far too many of the folks wanting gun control want the US to do away with its current government style and go to the way way far left socialist government style where the central government has full power to control individual lives. The US is not designed that way and our current government has been pushing far too much from the central government and it should mostly be from the states to make those decisions using the Constitution as it is designed to work. Central governments and their knee jerk ways of controlling just are not right. That is why so many folks have left their birth right homes and moved to the US over the last couple hundred years. We need to keep our Constitution and government run as it was designed.
 
BobF said:
Far too many of the folks wanting gun control want the US to do away with its current government style and go to the way way far left socialist government style where the central government has full power to control individual lives. The US is not designed that way and our current government has been pushing far too much from the central government and it should mostly be from the states to make those decisions using the Constitution as it is designed to work. Central governments and their knee jerk ways of controlling just are not right. That is why so many folks have left their birth right homes and moved to the US over the last couple hundred years. We need to keep our Constitution and government run as it was designed.
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Oh Bob.... that darn old Far left socialist stuff.... so I take it you will be refusing your Medicare and sending back you SOCIAL security check? And that you will repair the road in front of your house yourself.. and build your own power plant on you property.. dig your own sewers and burn all your garbage?
 
QuickSilver said:
Oh Bob.... that darn old Far left socialist stuff.... so I take it you will be refusing your Medicare and sending back you SOCIAL security check? And that you will repair the road in front of your house yourself.. and build your own power plant on you property.. dig your own sewers and burn all your garbage?
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Well, I'm not sure about Bob, but, I already burn my trash, maintain my road, dug my own septic system... I did work all my life and was forced to pay into a social security system that told me I would be covered by medicare and eligible for a SS check in retirement years. I fail to see that as "Far Left Socialist stuff". And as far as someone's earlier comment about preppers, I'm proud to say that the last time I was iced in for 13 days with no power or means of transportation, that I was Damn glad I was considered a prepper. Stayed snug and warm and well fed the whole time. Not all of us expect the end of times. :D
 
squatting dog said:
Well, I'm not sure about Bob, but, I already burn my trash, maintain my road, dug my own septic system... I did work all my life and was forced to pay into a social security system that told me I would be covered by medicare and eligible for a SS check in retirement years. I fail to see that as "Far Left Socialist stuff". And as far as someone's earlier comment about preppers, I'm proud to say that the last time I was iced in for 13 days with no power or means of transportation, that I was Damn glad I was considered a prepper. Stayed snug and warm and well fed the whole time. Not all of us expect the end of times. :D
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Wow.... you should secede... form your own country and then ask for foreign aid... lol!!
 
QuickSilver said:
Oh Bob.... that darn old Far left socialist stuff.... so I take it you will be refusing your Medicare and sending back you SOCIAL security check? And that you will repair the road in front of your house yourself.. and build your own power plant on you property.. dig your own sewers and burn all your garbage?
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You have put up this nonsense about SS before and I said it was not government payments at all. We all, that have worked for wages, had to put in some money for our SS return when we retire. You just can not seem to understand that idea at all. We are forced to buy our own SS a form of retirement insurance and our employers have also put into it. A government ordered support for our retirement. So far a pretty good idea. At least even the least prepared for older life have a bit to rely on. Medicare, well, something else as it is not something we decided to do but was forced into it by our government. Actually, lots of good advice from others that say buy insurance to make sure some areas not covered by Medicare do get paid for and can happen with little or no cost. So for many years now we have been paying for medical insurance to cover what Medicare did not cover. So far I have had no high cost events that were not covered by Medicare and my own insurance. A few years back I did get into the pharmacy blind spot of Medicare, but not for long. That was one very dumb thing to do to people. As they are pretty sick when they went into the pharmacy blind spot and really needed the medications. At least now in Obama care, I believe they have removed that blind spot and continue to cover the pharmacy needs.

Much of those things you posted about - roads etc. - are state and local government items, not central government things. And our current Obama care could also be run by states and local to meet their needs, not just something a politician in DC thinks is best.
 
Sorry Bob.... whether State run or Federal run any program that is for the common good.. or helps the entire population is SOCIALIST... No one in this society can exist on their own.. without the utilities.. Roads... healthcare .. schools.. military protection etc.. You simply do not understand the word.
 
QuickSilver said:
Sorry Bob.... whether State run or Federal run any program that is for the common good.. or helps the entire population is SOCIALIST... No one in this society can exist on their own.. without the utilities.. Roads... healthcare .. schools.. military protection etc.. You simply do not understand the word.
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Socialism is a form of government that many countries do use. It is total central government and little else.

Public schools are locally owned and run. Private schools also. And that covers most of them. The only federal meddling is the standardized test. Lots of folks seem to want to get rid of that too.

All these little things you speak of are parts of a republic doing its job. We locally vote on doing things and if we don't like them we don't vote to support them any longer. That is how a democracy/republic works.

Until after WWII roads were all local or state. Eisenhower started the interstate highways to help fix the massive unemployment problems and improve access to all parts of the states. Unfortunately that has been bastardized to allow cities like Chicago to build their network of toll roads with federal funds by calling them interstates. Why should travelers have to put quarters and such into their use.

Utilities are privately owned in many parts of the US or city owned utilities. Those are options not mandatory because of some government nonsense.

The US is not a socialist controlled country yet, but some think we should do so. I hope we never really go that far left in the US.
 
QuickSilver said:
Sorry Bob.... whether State run or Federal run any program that is for the common good.. or helps the entire population is SOCIALIST... No one in this society can exist on their own.. without the utilities.. Roads... healthcare .. schools.. military protection etc.. You simply do not understand the word.
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It drives me nuts when Americans refer to the word Socialist as something evil, or say it's the same as communist!
 
Ameriscot said:
It drives me nuts when Americans refer to the word Socialist as something evil, or say it's the same as communist!
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Well, enough of the evil countries do use socialism as their guiding light. You are linked to England and much of what they do is socialist. But since WWII they have dropped a lot to private that they once did themselves. At one time much of their utilities were government run but now many parts have turned to private. Same for some industries. Still plenty of central control so I consider them to be more into socialism than the US is, or should be, if we want to continue to be considered to be a free country.
 
BobF said:
Well, enough of the evil countries do use socialism as their guiding light. You are linked to England and much of what they do is socialist. But since WWII they have dropped a lot to private that they once did themselves. At one time much of their utilities were government run but now many parts have turned to private. Same for some industries. Still plenty of central control so I consider them to be more into socialism than the US is, or should be, if we want to continue to be considered to be a free country.
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You really need to look up the difference between communism and socialism... This country could not operate without socialistic programs and principles. It does not mean we are not "Free"... It means that many things are too big for the individual to accomplish alone.. and that society as a whole has to band together for the common good..
 
mitchezz said:
There's no point analysing individual particular shootings......there's way too many. It should be obvious that America is experiencing all these massacres because it's all too easy for the mentally ill and those with anger management issues or personality disorders to get their hands on firearms. If you're serious about remedying this situation make it that to own a firearm you have to prove that you NEED one.
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You are exactly right....it is the fact that guns are too easy and too available for those that want them....but as you can well see the excuses for these needless deaths are endless...
 

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