Guns- Putting it in perspective in my real world.

I think you are trying to swallow the wrong end of the pineapple, Bob.

How about getting the people to recognise that too many people are being shot to death or maimed and to start a sensible conversation to address the problem? I don't think that Switzerland has a low murder rate because they have guns and gun days. If the US simply decides that this will be the saving solution, I don't think the death toll will suddenly be halved. It will take a lot more that this.

When the death toll is brought down to less horrific rates, then gun days could possibly become a feasible option.
 

It can't happen now ...maybe future generations will eventually be enlightened enough to do something drastic. Until then nothing will change. If anything it will get far worse. I sometimes will read both sides of an issue just to get an idea what the other side is thinking. If you read the thinking behind gun culture it's so ingrained it can't be moved...such people can look at dead kids in an elementary school and think if the teachers and principal were armed it wouldn't have happened. The college shootings could have been stopped if more people were armed...and/or everybody had tossed heavy objects at the shooter...THEE most hare-brained thing I've heard yet.
 
OK, then you tell me just what is the Swiss answer to your concern. How to they keep guns and still have a rather nonchalant population.

The US rates are far from the worst in the world and the rates over many recent years have been falling. We are constantly being told we must get rid of our guns. That is not a fact or truth but the minority of the government and our populatin sure do try to make it our first thing to do. Where is the problem? How do the Swiss do it? They too have had some problems with the outside type thinking that they should not have guns at home. History has shown that they have had little problems with weapons in homes.
 

My thoughts in blue.

BobF said:
OK, then you tell me just what is the Swiss answer to your concern. How to they keep guns and still have a rather nonchalant population.

I have no idea other than it would seem that as a people they are a lot less hot headed than some others. I'd need to see the level of road rage, domestic violence, assault and public disorder before I could venture an opinion. I'm not Swiss and I've never been to Switzerland but I'm guessing that in temperament they are rather like the Dutch or the Scandinavians. They are a rather calm people. Someone please tell me if I've got this wrong.

The US rates are far from the worst in the world and the rates over many recent years have been falling.

Not the worst in the world but nothing to be proud of either. The US is not alone in having falling rates. If you can pinpoint the reason for the falls then you might be able to engineer even more reductions in intentional homicides.

We are constantly being told we must get rid of our guns. That is not a fact or truth but the minority of the government and our populatin sure do try to make it our first thing to do.

I think that a lot of people around the world think that you have too many guns for safety. This is why they would think this:

The United States, with less than 5 percent of the world's population, has about 35–50 percent of the world's civilian-owned guns, according to a 2007 report by the Switzerland-based Small Arms Survey. It ranks number one in firearms per capita.The United States also has the highest homicide-by-firearm rate among the world's most developed nations.
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Where is the problem? How do the Swiss do it? They too have had some problems with the outside type thinking that they should not have guns at home. History has shown that they have had little problems with weapons in homes.

America is not Switzerland Bob. America does have problems with weapons in homes. And in cars. And even more so in schools.
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You want to know how bad it is? Sometimes my kid will tell me to beep my horn if somebody cuts me off in traffic. I have seen people stop their cars and brawl because someone beeped or was just a lousy driver. If they had guns too?...great, what could possibly go wrong? I do not beep.
 
Hasn't anyone noticed that the "gun culture" has become worse and more vocal since President Obama took office? Seriously.. IMO this has been fueled by Right Wing media and the constant drum beat fueling the fear that "Obama is coming for your guns". There actually are people that truly believe there is a plan to confiscate everyone's firearms... with the intention of preventing a revolution when Obama decides he is going to stay in office for a third term or possibly forever. There really ARE people that believe this nonsense..

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...elieve-conspiracy-theories-on-guns-sharia-law

http://mediamatters.org/research/2010/03/25/no-surprise-that-harris-poll-finds-republicans/162266
 
One thing I do notice, many Americans seem to be obsessed with personal safety in a manner that we Canucks are not.
Does this type of vigilance perhaps pave the way for a tunnel vision view of an America where The OK Corral approach is the

only defence against any and all societal ills? It seems to this outsider, that there is so much barely contained rage and fear among certain segments of the population. What will happen if right wing gun mania becomes so prevalent that not only the

anti gun proponents, but the responsible gun owners, are ostracised by the extremists? How do you maintain a society under those circumstances? I find this more terrifying than the lone gun crazies. A paranoid society is capable of scary things.

Revolution? That is beyond horrific. Truly, I applaud those Americans struggling to help their country during these turbulent times.
 
I sense the same paranoia. My personal safely rarely causes me any worry. I'm not silly enough to venture into lonely dark places at night but in daylight hours I go wherever I want, by myself, without any feelings of fear, or even unease.

I do read news reports of road rage and I try to be a very courteous driver. I believe that is a better defence than a loaded gun in the glove box.

Right now, hubby and I are sitting in our front room and the front door is wide open because it is a hot evening. The wire door is closed but unlocked. Same at the back door. The side gates do not have a lock and the back door of the garage is always open unless we go away on vacation.

If my neighbourhood in a major Australian city is so unthreatening, why would I even think of carrying a gun or keep one in my house? No-one in my family for generations past and present has ever felt the need to arm themselves with anything more deadly than a rolling pin.
 
Have you seen the signs that are being put out in neighborhoods... by the GUN FOLKS???

neighbor---guns1_o.jpg


If this isn't one of the most disgusting things that can be done, I don't know what is. It's like guns are being forced down every American's throats whether we want to own one or not.. Talk about imposing ones views... huh? What would you do if a sign like this appeared on your neighbor's lawn?
 
Wow! What rage. Certainly puts a target on that house. I would take it down. Here it would be illegal anyway, even if a homeowner received permission to have firearms in his home, posting such a sign contravenes responsible speech laws, and endangers others.
 
Shalimar said:
One thing I do notice, many Americans seem to be obsessed with personal safety in a manner that we Canucks are not.
Does this type of vigilance perhaps pave the way for a tunnel vision view of an America where The OK Corral approach is the

only defence against any and all societal ills? It seems to this outsider, that there is so much barely contained rage and fear among certain segments of the population. What will happen if right wing gun mania becomes so prevalent that not only the

anti gun proponents, but the responsible gun owners, are ostracised by the extremists? How do you maintain a society under those circumstances? I find this more terrifying than the lone gun crazies. A paranoid society is capable of scary things.

Revolution? That is beyond horrific. Truly, I applaud those Americans struggling to help their country during these turbulent times.
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This is exactly what is happening in our country and it is indeed scary, the extremists have created a paranoid society.
 
Have you seen the signs that are being put out in neighborhoods... by the GUN FOLKS???

neighbor---guns1_o.jpg


If this isn't one of the most disgusting things that can be done, I don't know what is. It's like guns are being forced down every American's throats whether we want to own one or not.. Talk about imposing ones views... huh? What would you do if a sign like this appeared on your neighbor's lawn?
Click to expand...


I'd like to erect a counter sign saying that

My neighbour is a compulsive liar.
In any case he couldn't hit a barn door at 10 paces.
And he's always out on (insert time of his lodge meeting here)
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Just joking, but it would be fun to do it.
 
Shalimar said:
One thing I do notice, many Americans seem to be obsessed with personal safety in a manner that we Canucks are not.
Does this type of vigilance perhaps pave the way for a tunnel vision view of an America where The OK Corral approach is the

only defence against any and all societal ills? It seems to this outsider, that there is so much barely contained rage and fear among certain segments of the population. What will happen if right wing gun mania becomes so prevalent that not only the

anti gun proponents, but the responsible gun owners, are ostracised by the extremists? How do you maintain a society under those circumstances? I find this more terrifying than the lone gun crazies. A paranoid society is capable of scary things.

Revolution? That is beyond horrific. Truly, I applaud those Americans struggling to help their country during these turbulent times.
Click to expand...

It is a truly paranoid society. People who don't have guns are deemed idiots and potential victims. It's not like this in the UK either. I never worry. We don't even lock our doors half the time.
 
And in reading the above posts I see several errors being used against the US people, by the gun haters.

First is that it is not the far right folks making big fuss about needing guns. Remember Harry Reid, leader of our Senate till a year ago? He is one of Obama's party and is one that believes in the US has the right to own guns.

Also, our gun use rates are going down so the current gun laws are working. Not fast enough but working.

We get lots of extremist creating these nasty situations. To me the extremist are the far far left folks that want to change the US ways without following the Constitutional ways of having our representatives do all the debating and voting. All these anti gun nonsense does is keep enraging those that prefer our national ways.

I don't see how Obama has caused the gun owners to be worse than before. If rates continue to be going down then Obama is not a problem at all. He does say he wishes for fewer deaths from guns. And so do most of the gun owners. Why can't our gun laws do the job? There seems to be no way for the laws to not allow mental type's from getting guns as the mental state is protected by medical laws that will not allow that information to be given.

Paranoia is started and maintained by the anti gun groups and their blind idea that all these attacks on the US ways will fix the problem. It will not work as the way to change things in the US is to start a Constitutional Amendment campaign and have the privileges modified or removed. First would be to amend the 2nd amendment and I believe that some say also the 10th amendment. Not sure about that amendment but definitely one of the newer ones.

A big problem with doing the amendment is that requires a strong majority of the Congress, about 2/3 majority. And also about 2/3 of the states also supporting the amendment. That means that if the gun haters are a minority they will never get the amendment through so they continue with their emotional fits and nothing gets done but keep folks all riled up. We do not have these majority numbers for the anti gun folks to depend on.
 
Paranoia is started and maintained by the anti gun groups and their blind idea that all these attacks on the US ways will fix the problem
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Sorry Bob, but I cannot agree. IMO paranoia (irrational fear) is fostered by the industry that makes and sells firearms. It's a selling point.

gun-ad.jpg
 
Or how about.. if you sell your gun to someone and they commit a murder... OR you are negligent and allow your gun to get into the hands of a crazy son or nephew and HE commits a murder... you are held liable and can face fines or prison time.?
 
Warrigal said:
Yes, but more effective if the sellers are reduced in number because they can't afford the fallout of their negligence.
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Of course the sellers should be held liable... as well as the gun manufacturers. It's the only industry that is immune from legal action for injury or death due to their products.
 
My neighbour is a compulsive liar.
In any case he couldn't hit a barn door at 10 paces.
And he's always out on (insert time of his lodge meeting here)

In the name of being a good neighbor, I would try to work with this clown. If they take down the sign we can reach an agreement. If a prowler comes by the first defense is the truly frightening howls of my dogs. If that doesn't deter the individual then have a field day with your weapon. However if you miss and hit one of my dogs I will beat you to death with your sign.
 
"I live in Sydney, the capital of drive by shootings at houses. Rarely does an innocent get hit although they don't seem to have any honour with regard to each others families."

(Posted elsewhere by Warrigal)

You mean that houses are being shot at by folks passing in cars? Those shooters are, then, guilty of several firearms violations, are they not? Possession, first, discharge of a firearm within a municipality, wanton disregard for public safety, etc.

Where do those folks obtain their guns? imp
 
Warrigal said:
Here is an interesting twist.

What if the sellers of firearms were held responsible for their stock being sold to straw buyers who on sell to people who shouldn't have guns?

http://www.wisconsingazette.com/wisconsin/trial-against-wisconsin-gun-shop-enters-final-week.html
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It is in the courts and if found guilty they should lose their business and do some resting in the jail too. If not guilty, that is hard to believe it would happen. But it is up to the courts to determine.
 
Ken N Tx said:
The Story of My Gun



Today, I swung my front door wide open and placed my Remington 30.06 right in the doorway. I left 6 cartridges beside it, then left it alone and went about my business.
While I was gone, the mailman delivered my mail, the neighbor boy across the street mowed the yard, a girl walked her dog down the street, and quite a few cars stopped at the stop sign near the front of my house
After about an hour, I checked on the gun. It was still sitting there, right where I had left it. It hadn't moved itself outside. It certainly hadn't killed anyone, even with the numerous opportunities it had presented to do so. In fact, it hadn't even loaded itself.

Well you can imagine my surprise, with all the hype by the Left and the Media about how dangerous guns are and how they kill people. Either the media is wrong or I'm in possession of the laziest gun in the world.

The United States is 3rd in Murders throughout the World. But if you take out just 4 cities: Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC and New Orleans, the United States is 4th from the bottom, in the entire world, for Murders. These 4 Cities also have the toughest Gun Control Laws in the U.S.

It would be absurd to draw any conclusions from this data - right?

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Very interesting, Ken. (especially the part I highlighted in red)
 

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