Getting hard to trust some doctors

VaughanJB said:
This is what happens when you live in a society that mixes capitalist ideals with healthcare. Doctors, like everyone else in business, is trying to make a profit.
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When morals and decency are lost to the winds it doesn't matter what flavor government you happen to sit under, they're all corrupt.
I hope you're not going to say that socialism is an exception.
 

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Not just your physician anymore.
We used to need blood lab work done and blood was taken right then and there.

We used to need blood work and was sent to the Lab in the same building as the Doctor

We now need blood work done and was sent to ANOTHER site down the street from the Medical Building
where you have to drive around 10 minutes to get a parking spot, 5-10 minutes wait to enter your name in
a kiosk and sit like cattle being called for the slaughter which can take an hour or more wait time.

I spell $$$$$ signs behind all these changes and not a care one iota of the stress it causes a patient. let alone the fact
that patient hasn't eaten or drank anything in 12 or more hours and has the shakes so bad the legs are jello.
Can you tell how happy I am right now?
 
squatting dog said:
Something to keep in mind.
Oatmeal has been shown to lower cholesterol levels.
Oatmeal contains a soluble fiber called beta-glucan, which binds to cholesterol in the digestive tract and prevents it from being absorbed into the bloodstream. This reduces the level of low-density lipoprotein (LDL), or "bad," cholesterol.

Studies have shown that consuming oatmeal regularly can lower LDL cholesterol by up to 10%. The amount of oatmeal needed to achieve this effect varies, but typically 1.5-2 cups per day is recommended.

It's important to note that oatmeal alone may not be enough to significantly lower cholesterol levels. (although it has for me). Other lifestyle factors, such as a healthy diet, regular exercise, and avoiding smoking, are also crucial for maintaining good heart health.
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Oat milk is cheaply and easily made at home and can be cooked into almost anything. Consuming it raw may be unwise though for the same reason we shouldn't eat raw flour.
 

IrishEyes said:
Not just your physician anymore.
We used to need blood lab work done and blood was taken right then and there.

We used to need blood work and was sent to the Lab in the same building as the Doctor

We now need blood work done and was sent to ANOTHER site down the street from the Medical Building
where you have to drive around 10 minutes to get a parking spot, 5-10 minutes wait to enter your name in
a kiosk and sit like cattle being called for the slaughter which can take an hour or more wait time.

I spell $$$$$ signs behind all these changes and not a care one iota of the stress it causes a patient. let alone the fact
that patient hasn't eaten or drank anything in 12 or more hours and has the shakes so bad the legs are jello.
Can you tell how happy I am right now?
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Yes. We didn't have to go to another building down the street for blood work, but they did have a kiosk for registration. It was horrible to use. This community has a high percentage of over 65 people. They did not understand how to use the kiosk, and just sat there until the nurse had to come out and help them. The clinic finally got rid of it, and now we are to pre-register at home online. If a patient doesn't know how to do that either, they can wait until arrival and someone at the front desk will do it for them.
 
gruntlabor said:
When morals and decency are lost to the winds it doesn't matter what flavor government you happen to sit under, they're all corrupt.
I hope you're not going to say that socialism is an exception.
Click to expand...

Mentioning Socialism never crossed my mind. Society is a reflection of ourselves, and sometimes what you see coming back is disappointing. Ultimately, we get the government we deserve. Also, most people, when it comes down to it, don't much care about others. This is especially true if the "other" is different in some obvious way.
 
WheatenLover said:
I read the other day that major medical errors were the 3rd highest cause of death in the US. Trouble is, I doubt I saved the article. It was from somewhere reliable, but senioritis prevents me from recalling where.
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Researchers from Johns Hopkins University, led by surgeon Dr, Martin Makary, concluded that medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the U.S. --Gemini
 
VaughanJB said:
Mentioning Socialism never crossed my mind. Society is a reflection of ourselves, and sometimes what you see coming back is disappointing. Ultimately, we get the government we deserve. Also, most people, when it comes down to it, don't much care about others. This is especially true if the "other" is different in some obvious way.
Click to expand...
Mentioning capitalism often crosses your mind. However, we are off topic so ,.. whatever you say.
 
squatting dog said:
Something to keep in mind.
Oatmeal has been shown to lower cholesterol levels.
Oatmeal contains a soluble fiber called beta-glucan, which binds to cholesterol in the digestive tract and prevents it from being absorbed into the bloodstream. This reduces the level of low-density lipoprotein (LDL), or "bad," cholesterol.

Studies have shown that consuming oatmeal regularly can lower LDL cholesterol by up to 10%. The amount of oatmeal needed to achieve this effect varies, but typically 1.5-2 cups per day is recommended.

It's important to note that oatmeal alone may not be enough to significantly lower cholesterol levels. (although it has for me). Other lifestyle factors, such as a healthy diet, regular exercise, and avoiding smoking, are also crucial for maintaining good heart health.
Click to expand...
1.5-2 cups of oatmeal a day! No thanks. I feed crushed oatmeal to the wild birds in the back yard.
I'm very happy that I am still on my feet and able to scatter it each day.

Seriously, I am a very calm person who doesn't worry about much at all. I am rather Pollyanna-ish and find joy in the simple things of life. Food is one of those simpler joys, especially chocolate and coffee.
 
gruntlabor said:
Mentioning capitalism often crosses your mind. However, we are off topic so ,.. whatever you say.
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Capitalism in terms I discuss it, is always economic, not political. Same with anything socialist. I would also state that we very rarely ever see a purely capitalist economy, or a purely socialist one. Capitalism without regulation is a disaster. Socialism without competition is a disaster. There are no "pure breeds". It's a question of where the balance is, and whether one feels it's currently right or not.

So I've never asked for the overthrow of capitalism. I have lived and worked under the system for my entire life. I have seen both benefits, and hindrances. When I see an hindrance, or a perceived problem, I mention it. But again, note, it's economic, not political. Hope that helps.

I'm glad to clarify further in DM's (to save others the debate).
 
gruntlabor said:
The elite/UN in cooperation want everyone 'on' protocol.
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This sounds to me like conspiracy tomfoolery. In terms of health, who is the "elite", and what is the UN doing to support them?

Globally we have health challenges. Diabetes is one, but the most obvious one to mention was Polio. Polio was a problem with global implications. That means every continent, Country, government, and healthcare system. It's a disease that can now be all but eradicated (it's been reduced by more than 99%). However, to do so took a global response. Someone had to coordinate, someone had to set up manufacturing for vaccines, someone had to deal with administration.

This was achieved through a few organizations, chief among them the UN and Wold Health Organization. They were, frankly, the only bodies that were able to help everyone come together and work on solving this health disaster. Point being, there are times when we need those organizations to cut through red tape, and gain a common understanding and agreement. With Polio, it worked wonderfully.

There are also basic health statistics such as diabetes, Chicken Pox, and a host of other things that don't vary too much country to country, and therefore can have health protocols written and applied at a global level. For example, we do know that blood pressure is an important diagnostic measure. So yes, it's part of the the protocol when testing. Treatments, and even recommended acceptable levels of blood pressure, are NOT globally agreed, however. For instance, the European Society of Cardiology isn't in complete agreement with the WHO. This is due to several reasons, including local ability to deliver healthcare and yes, a disagreement on interpretation of data.

In other words, having an organization with a global view is important and necessary. Not for every little thing, of course, but because we're a connected world.
 
I also think it's worth mentioning that much talk here has been about doctors, when in the US it's complicated by the health insurance business. Some health plans allow X, but not Y. Insurance companies exert influence on the delivery of healthcare. Individual drug companies exert influence on doctors to prescribe a particular drug over another, etc. This undoubtedly has an effect on what the individual experiences.
 
Yeah, I like to play a game of semantics every now and then too. :D

If you can be bothered, please explain how the post you quoted from me - one that covered capitalist ideals applied within healthcare - during a thread on healthcare and how it is delivered - is off-topic? I believe the desire for making profit from the delivery of healthcare has a direct affect on what we, as patients (consumers) experience. Do you not think it has any bearing at all? How is it off-topic?

For example - there are several posts on blood tests, and where they are analyzed. There used to be local analysis, but most often these days it has to be sent away. This is, I believe, mostly because of economic concerns - it's cheaper to centralize such things than have many different delivery points. But perhaps you think it's for another reason?

Same with the drugs you get - often they can be drugs that the doctor is incentivized to prescribe (which is how we ended up with the Oxycontin fiasco, for example). The machine that drove the opiate disaster was profit, not good healthcare.
 
VaughanJB said:
Yeah, I like to play a game of semantics every now and then too. :D

If you can be bothered, please explain how the post you quoted from me - one that covered capitalist ideals applied within healthcare - during a thread on healthcare and how it is delivered - is off-topic? I believe the desire for making profit from the delivery of healthcare has a direct affect on what we, as patients (consumers) experience. Do you not think it has any bearing at all? How is it off-topic?

For example - there are several posts on blood tests, and where they are analyzed. There used to be local analysis, but most often these days it has to be sent away. This is, I believe, mostly because of economic concerns - it's cheaper to centralize such things than have many different delivery points. But perhaps you think it's for another reason?

Same with the drugs you get - often they can be drugs that the doctor is incentivized to prescribe (which is how we ended up with the Oxycontin fiasco, for example). The machine that drove the opiate disaster was profit, not good healthcare.
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I've already said what I think.
I can't defend the current morality of my country any more than you can defend your country's actions when you were the most powerful country in the world. Not trying to start more trouble here, just saying that neither of the two of US is perfect for sure.
I defend the noble history of my country, do not appreciate having it endlessly insulted here.
I am leaving you now in peace to say whatever you will. I don't know which of us is more boring.
 
I had an uncle many years ago who had a big cyst on his knee. It caused no problems for over 20 years. Finally, he visited a doctor who told him it looked dangerous and should have it taken off. He decided to follow the doctor's advice and it was surgically removed. It turned out the cyst was cancerous and spread all over his body after it was removed. He died at age 49!
 
gruntlabor said:
I've already said what I think.
I can't defend the current morality of my country any more than you can defend your country's actions when you were the most powerful country in the world. Not trying to start more trouble here, just saying that neither of the two of US is perfect for sure.
I defend the noble history of my country, do not appreciate having it endlessly insulted here.
I am leaving you now in peace to say whatever you will. I don't know which of us is more boring.
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I don't take criticism of my country on a specific point as being personally insulting. My country has good things, and bad. Sometimes the difference between the two varies from person to person. I have stated, more than once, my undying love of the US and its people. But that doesn't mean I won't point out areas that I think are wrong or could be improved. I don't perceive the US as "endlessly insulted" here, but I don't read every thread. I actually welcome opposing views about the UK, because sometimes we live in a bubble based on personal experience.

When it comes to the commercial side of healthcare, I do think the link between business and practitioners is both blatant and obvious. This isn't the case here in the UK. So you have to look at why that is, and speculate. I believe the truth is, the primary concern of a healthcare system that is predicated on profit from start to finish is more likely to be affected by profit motives. The US system isn't about giving the very best treatments to all - it's about giving the very best treatments to those that can afford it. It can be a criticism, but it's also simply how it is.

Again I refer to the Oxycontin issue. Many people were so let down by the system. A drug company was able to release a drug, to package it as a product rather than simply a treatment, and to incentivize doctors to prescribe it, for profit. This has had a highly destructive outcome. Without the element of profit - and they were considerable - it's likely the situation wouldn't have happened. I'm sure you know about the societal damage that was, and is, being done by the entire scandal.

I recall working for US companies and being offered multiple healthcare plans, with different financial costs. People have a choice, and that's a good thing. In the UK, it's different. We all get a base set of healthcare. If you decide you want more than the base set, you are free to buy private healthcare. Most people settle for the standard, because the standard covers most eventualities. We don't have to make a decision based on personal costs. Although it must be said, there is a misnomer that healthcare here is "free". It is not free, it is paid for through taxes and National Insurance contributions.

Is the UK system better? I'm not arguing one way or the other. However, I do think a system that incentivizes certain doctors to deal only with patients in a particular healthcare plan (and to a level within that plan), or to prescribe specific drugs with financial incentives attached, is more open to putting profit motives above the very best healthcare treatments.

My experience is that at the high end, there is no healthcare that betters the US experience. At the low end, I'd much prefer the NHS. Healthcare in the US, is a product, in keeping with its ideals. Others will disagree, and perfection is nowhere.

It's difficult, because without any profit, there would be no drug companies. On the other hand, you have questionable practices (IMO) that are interesting to to note. There are some notable cases, but this article covers the subject in general terms:

DOSE OF REALITY: BREAKING DOWN BIG PHARMA’S YEAR OF BAD BEHAVIOR IN 2023: PART I: BIG PHARMA’S EGREGIOUS PRICING PRACTICES

The article includes a number of supporting documentation.

I'll end by stating again, I love the US, it's people, and it's ideals. But I also believe controls, regulation, and rules simply must be in place to control things.
 
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