What's the thinking on Voluntary Euthanasia?

Warrigal said:
There is a big moral and ethical chasm between letting someone die of natural causes and actually killing them off. Somewhere in the middle is killing oneself or being indifferent to someone who is clearly about to commit suicide. If a person was about to jump off a bridge what would be your reaction ? I doubt that anyone's first thought would be "O well, it is their right to die so I'll just walk on by".
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Have you ever heard the stories about how a would-be rescuer is the one that dies instead of the suicidal person? Or they take them with them when they jump?

In lifesaving class I learned that a drowning person will often grab at whatever is handy to stay afloat, even if it means the person trying to save them is pulled down with them. Substitute "depressed" or "suicidal" for "drowning" and I think it's the same thing.

So although my first natural instinct might be to run to the aid of the suicidal person, my training kicks in and I think twice before I act.

Saving someone's life might be the wrong thing to do as well. They might be feeling remorseful because they just abused 20 children and killed 14 relatives - do you really want to save someone like that, especially if it means risking your own life? I wouldn't.
 

My husband, when depressed, took an overdose in an attempt at suicide.
I called an ambulance.

Did I trample on his right to die?
He's never reproached me and nor have our children.

He hasn't made another attempt either although at the time I resigned myself to my probable inability
to stop him a second time if he really wanted to die.
 
Warrigal said:
My husband, when depressed, took an overdose in an attempt at suicide.
I called an ambulance.

Did I trample on his right to die?
He's never reproached me and nor have our children.

He hasn't made another attempt either although at the time I resigned myself to my probable inability
to stop him a second time if he really wanted to die.
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That's a bit different - you know him, you're related to him, you understand his demons. I meant a complete stranger.

It's also a different scenario envisioning suicide when you have dependents. Although it obviously didn't stop your husband from trying I would think your relationship was at least a consideration.

You did the right thing, and I would have done the same.
 

If a person was about to jump off a bridge what would be your reaction ? I doubt that anyone's first thought would be "O well, it is their right to die so I'll just walk on by".
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Honest answer Warri?? Yes, that would be exactly my first reaction. The first thing that would cross my mind is that it is none of my business. But I'm a bit odd like that, and I'm aware that most 'reactions' haven't evolved much since we were just another creature surviving in the jungle, so that first millisecond reaction would indeed be that one.

But I have acquired just enough veneer of civilization for conscience to remind me that maybe I should at least ask if they'd thought hard about it. But I'd ask from a distance.

I must have once had an exemplary teacher because I distinctly remember, as a youngster in primary school, a series of lessons on 'rescuing people'. We were told to crawl in a fire to stay under the smoke. and not to tug or roll people who may have spinal injuries etc.

It was stressed, quite forcibly, that the best way to rescue the drowning was to use something, anything, a shirt, a long stick etc for them to grab. Something that separated the rescuer from the victim as we were warned of exactly what Phil just outlined. That a drowning person will climb on top of you and drown you instead without even thinking about it. They will not share your logical thinking processes nor appreciate your good intent.

I share Phil's opinion that the publicly suicidal aren't ticking right and do to a point equate with the drowning.
The ones who've already decided on the course of action just take a running jump over the railing. The ones who choose to balance on it until someone like you comes along to 'rescue' them are looking for either an excuse to go on living or an audience for their exit.

But we digress !!! This thread is about legally sanctioned Voluntary Euthanasia. Not suicide per se.

Voluntary euthanasia isn't nearly as exciting as jumping off bridges. It is about the people who aren't capable of getting to the bridge still having a right to end it with a smidgeon of dignity and in a peaceful, painless, trauma free manner.

Their decision is reached over time and by far more logical thought processes than made by someone who jumps off a bridge, or under a train with a shopping bag in each hand because they had a bad day.

That we wander off the point of this topic into the realm of the bizarre 'what if's' is indicative that it's a subject most don't want to concentrate on. We continually paste our own personal values onto other people's right to make a decision according to theirs. To me that is the ultimate arrogance!

If the legislation condoned it, and it was made an easier option to implement by the sufferer, then other people's 'reactions,' beliefs and complicity needn't enter the question at all. A legal form could absolve any named, consenting, individual assisting the person from any legal culpability. Too simple??

The only question we need to consider, and express opinions on, is if other people have the right to decide their own fate, according to their own values and opinion, regardless of it's relevance to our own.

We need to get past what's right for us, personally. It's not all about us and our choices and decisions, it's about extending the permission to others to make a decision for themselves. Is it really all that hard to do?
 
It's easy to argue in hypotheticals but each case is a complex mix of issues.
While I am giving personal examples I might reveal that I put in writing instructions that allowed my mother to die by her own will.

She was 91 years old, fairly advanced into dementia but neither sad nor depressed. Her favourite mood was mild outrage over one of the carer's hair colour or the mutterings of another resident. I was called one day to come to the nursing home because "something was happening".

She was refusing to eat or drink and she was singing exultantly like an animated opera singer. When she saw me she made a very clear gesture with her hands that was in consonance with her words. With a smile, and looking directly into my eyes, she said, "No more". Her intention was unmistakable and I gave orders that she was not to be force fed but by all means try to persuade her to take food. As I said, I had to put it in writing and when later I received her death certificate it gave the cause of death as "senile dementia and dehydration". The last bit was squarely on my conscience and it rocked me a little. Actually if I am honest it was a psychic shock but I have no regrets.

In that last week of her life she did not suffer due to excellent palliative care and everyone who loved her had time to visit her to see her for the last time. I had the privilege of walking with her on that last leg of life's journey. Death came to greet her as a friend. In my personal opinion, we should not fear death, nor the process of dying, nearly as much as we do. Nor should we shrink from life, even when it is hard.

Having said that, I don't think we should judge others for the choices they make and I regret my initial reaction to the story that started this thread.
 
Warri.

That's the point really, there are as many stories as there are people and we needn't make the subject more complex by comparing and judging their worth as excuses for our views. That can go on ad infinitum and meanwhile some poor soul is suffering unnecessarily because of the fear of implicating a loved one in 'assisting' their release.

That's a real 'humanitarian' issue to consider.
 
Family has a vested interest in whether a family member dies or not, voluntary euthanasia or suicide. If this person was a complete stranger to me I would not presume to interfere.
When my mother was in a nursing home, she signed a DNR (Do Not Resusitate) but the doctor asked me anyway. I didn't stand in the way. I will do the same thing if needed and expect my wish to be respected by my own daughter.
 
snaarl said:
Family has a vested interest in whether a family member dies or not, voluntary euthanasia or suicide ...
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They do and they do not.

Certainly they have an interest in it, but do they have a right to say yea or nay? Depends upon the fitness of the family member, right? Ultimately I am the only person who has a right to decide whether to live or to die, but that's given a sound mind. If the mind is going then yes, next of kin get involved. That's why they have all these comparatively new DNRs and living wills. It's moving in the right direction but very slowly.

We often hold onto things not because we care for them so much as we fear losing them. It's a big difference in perception. We have trouble letting go.
 
I believe strongly that a person who is suffering from a terminal illness should have the right to legal euthanasia. I've watched too many relatives suffer needlessly.

Author Terry Pratchett made a video on assisted dying, after being diagnosed with Alzheimer's. He passed naturally, at home, in March 2015.

Sorry, the video that posted was a music vid I posted last night. I thought Vimeo and Daily Motion vids would post here. Anway, it's in the link in my subsequent post.
 
I also might suggest it shouldn't have to be only for a terminal disorder. Obviously there's a difference between curable depression and something far darker. But I feel somebody who has been evaluated and treatment has failed should have the option. I'm thinking David Foster Wallace and Robin Williams...they could have had more dignity and less pain than hanging themselves.
 
fureverywhere said:
I also might suggest it shouldn't have to be only for a terminal disorder. Obviously there's a difference between curable depression and something far darker. But I feel somebody who has been evaluated and treatment has failed should have the option. I'm thinking David Foster Wallace and Robin Williams...they could have had more dignity and less pain than hanging themselves.
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I am absolutely with you on that one, though we may be in the minority on that one.
 
My husband battled depression and anxiety for ten years and attempted suicide once. He failed and is still alive today.
He did not have my permission to kill himself and has since left his depression behind.

We have discussed refusing certain treatments in future including resuscitation and chemotherapy but that IMO is not voluntary suicide.
I intend to die as naturally as possible with the very best palliative care on offer.
 
I am a born coward but I would try to check out with the "right" diagnosis...
 

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