Woman Shot and Killed in Rampage on Capitol Hill

Every unnatural death needs to be examined carefully and dispassionately.

And who gets to define "unnatural"? I don't think there are very many "natural" deaths from old age.

My dad died suddenly in his bed from a heart attack and there was still an autopsy because he had not recently seen a doctor. And rightly so IMO.

I was under the impression that an autopsy can be requested in any case, but in criminal cases such as homicide by firearm I don't see the need to waste the taxpayer's money by performing an autopsy with the resultant "Lead Poisoning" as COD.

My oldest brother passed in his sleep at 46 - there was no autopsy. My middle brother shot himself - no autopsy. Father died at 48, "supposedly" from gangrene in the intestines - no autopsy. Mother at 54 from multiple strokes - no autopsy.

I've always thought that an autopsy is only performed when someone cares. That may sound cold but that's how I see it. I doubt there are many performed on the homeless when they die.

We had an incident where a deranged man was surrounded by police on Bondi Beach and shot to death.
The coronial inquiry did not lay personal blame on anyone but did recommend changes to procedure.
We should learn from mistakes and try to do better.

So what was the procedural change - did they switch to rubber bullets? Mace? Feathers and cream-pies at twenty paces?

When you encounter a mad dog you put it down. No one questions you (except perhaps GreenPeace, but that's another thread ;) ) as to why or how you did it. But now, in this touchy-feely "everyone has equal rights" New Age world we second-guess the men and women that we pay to protect us.

When they decide they've had enough and walk off the job en masse I want to see how effective these liberal measures are ...
 

Warrigal, our federal judges are appointed by the president subject to approval by the senate. They are appointed for life unless impeached.
 
So what was the procedural change - did they switch to rubber bullets? Mace? Feathers and cream-pies at twenty paces?

When you encounter a mad dog you put it down. No one questions you (except perhaps GreenPeace, but that's another thread ;) ) as to why or how you did it. But now, in this touchy-feely "everyone has equal rights" New Age world we second-guess the men and women that we pay to protect us.

When they decide they've had enough and walk off the job en masse I want to see how effective these liberal measures are ...
First, humans are not dogs, even when they are deranged. Second, for the citizens to have confidence in their various police forces, there must be accountability.

The incident on Bondi Beach involved a French tourist sho was shot to death when he was having a psychotic episode. You can well imagine the international repercussions but it is mandatory in NSW for a coronial inquest at the highest lever for any death in custody. This term is quite broad and includes

  • any police operation calculated to apprehend a person(s);
  • a police siege or a police shooting
  • a high speed police motor vehicle pursuit
  • an operation to contain or restrain persons
  • an evacuation;
  • a traffic control/enforcement;
  • a road block
  • execution of a writ/service of process
  • any other circumstance considered applicable by the State Coroner or a Deputy State Coroner

In 2001 there were 37 deaths in custody in NSW, of which 5 were persons of Aboriginal descent. Every one was subject to a coronial enquiry. A summary of findings taken from the Chief Coroner's report of 2001

In most cases where a death has occurred as a result of or in the course of a police operation, the behaviour and conduct of police was found not to warrant criticism by the Coroners. However criticism of certain aspects were made in the following matters:-


  • 778/97 the Deputy State Coroner was critical of police response to the incident and made recommendations accordingly.

  • 1751/00 the State Coroner expressed concern at the delay in deployment of specialist officers to a potentially life threatening situation. The State Coroner urged the NSW Police Service to analyse the facts of the case from an operational perspective and implement change where it is considered appropriate.

  • 2028/00 the State Coroner stressed the need for the NSW Police Service to address the issue of immediately separating police when they are involved in a police operation or a death in custody so that their versions of the incident cannot be concocted.

In the following matters the actions of the police were commended:-


  • 778/97 the Deputy State Coroner commended police for exercising exceptional judgments and showing a great deal of courage when dealing with a potentially life threatening situation.

  • 182/01 the Senior Deputy State Coroner found that police acted professionally and appropriately.


  • 191/01 the State Coroner commended the police officers for attempting to make the deceased safe. He found they nearly lost their lives in doing so.

We will continue to remind both the Police Service and the public of the high standard of investigation expected in all coronial cases.

The case of the French tourist Roni Levi is not covered in the 2001 report because the inquiry was not finished at this time but here is a sample of the findings of a case of a hanging while in custody, with the recommendations that arose from the inquiry.

2096 OF 1999 Male aged 29 years died on 10 October 1999 at Goulburn Correctional Centre. Finding handed down on 18 January 2001 at Goulburn by Jacqueline Milledge, Deputy State Coroner.
A.M. was an inmate at the Goulburn Correctional Centre serving seven years for Armed Hold Up offences and Demand Money with Menaces.

On 9 October, the deceased was moved 'one out' and, as his possessions were placed in the new cell, AM spent time in the yard until 'lock up' at 3pm. About 8:15am on 10 October he was found hanging from the top bunk by a torn bed sheet. The deceased had committed suicide. There was no other person involved in his death.

Concerns raised by the family included the amount of medication their son was on at the time of his death, how he managed to have a torn sheet in his possession, and why some prison records were missing.

Correctional Officer's gave evidence that inmates often fashion torn sheets into clothes lines to enable them to have control over the drying of their washing to safeguard against theft. The officers stated that as soon as the lines are confiscated, another appears within half an hour.

At inquest, the Coroner was satisfied that the prisoner’s medication was appropriate for his circumstances.

Another matter that was considered at inquest was his move from Junee prison, where his parents believed he was doing well, to Goulburn. This move took place on the 17[SUP]th[/SUP] of September. Evidence was given that he was moved for security reasons as white powder was discovered in his cell. There was also prison 'intelligence' to suggest he was arranging the movement of monies to different accounts. The initial 'NARCO' system of drug testing indicated the powder was 'speed', however, subsequent forensic analysis proved negative. The Coroner was satisfied that the transfer of the prisoner was appropriate.

Throughout his period of incarceration the prisoner had accessed the health and counselling services regularly. His medical record clearly shows Corrective Services responded to his requests for assistance timely and often. From the records it appears his depression had many sources. He disliked the facility at Goulburn, he was drug dependant, he was disappointed that his request for transfer was taking so long and he had not had a visit from his family for eleven months. These issues, amongst other things, compounded and on 10 October 1999 he hanged himself

Finding:

That A. M. died as a result of hanging on the 10[SUP]th[/SUP] of October, 1999, Between 3pm and 8.30am, in Cell 38, a wing of the Goulburn Correctional Facility.


Recommendations:
To the Commissioner for Corrective Services:

1. That the Commissioner for Corrective Services re-enforce the existing protocols to ensure all files and records relating to the deceased remain complete and intact until the Coronial process is at an end.

2. That all activities relating to the removal of items from any deceased's cell be recorded indicating the officers name, date and time and activity.

3. That all inmates under police investigation for drug use/possession, be interviewed by police at the time of referral or as soon as possible thereafter.

4. That the form accompanying any substance sent by police for analysis be endorsed to ensure a copy of the analysis certificate is forwarded to the Governor of the Correctional Centre involved immediately after analysis.

5. That the use of the current 'NARCO' system of presumptive drug identification be reconsidered as it appears to be unreliable.

6. That the existing protocols be re-enforced to ensure that the deceased's property in the cell remains undisturbed until the next of kin have been notified and afforded reasonable time to view the cell.

7. That the personal property of each inmate be searched when transferred from wing to wing.

8. That a record be kept when the officer in charge of the investigation directs that the crime scene is no longer to be preserved. Details should include the time, date, direction and who was directed. This record is to be kept by both the police and the Governor of the Correctional Centre.

Recommendations 3, 4 & 8 where also made to the Minister for Police.

 

Warrigal, our federal judges are appointed by the president subject to approval by the senate. They are appointed for life unless impeached.

But aren't those judges only involved in interpreting the Constitution i.e in the High Court (Supreme Court?)
What about judges in other jurisdictions at state and county level?
 
But aren't those judges only involved in interpreting the Constitution i.e in the High Court (Supreme Court?)
What about judges in other jurisdictions at state and county level?
The thread is about an awful tragedy in the US not Aussie. Let's stick to the original thread.

 
Fern, we got to this point because I raised a question about an independent inquiry into the death of the woman in Washington.
As often happens that caused some side discussion about judicial and coronial processes.
I can only offer Australian examples and I am interested in what happens in the US when someone is killed by law enforcement.

I've been watching a community facebook page in the name of Miriam Carey and it is very clear that there are many varying popular accounts of what took place. Questions have been raised about the minor damage to the front of her car, whether she was in or out of the car when she was shot, whether the police took the child from the car before or after shooting her, whether the car had tinted windows or not, and so on. This is why I raised the question of an inquiry. It is important that such questions be answered properly, otherwise conspiracy theories will proliferate.

But I take your point.
 


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