A Basic Income for Every Adult

MercyL

MercyL

Member
[h=2]Switzerland will vote on giving every adult in the country a $2,800 check every month.
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I think Nixon came up with a plan similar to what the Swiss are considering. Everyone would get a basic "salary". IF you want more than what that salary provides, you go out and work for it. The stipend could help people with housing, clothing and/or food and those of us who still work would benefit more from that work than we currently do.

I like the idea, even if it has a few snags that need work.
 

Where would this money come from?? Taxpayers?? While it sounds wonderful to get a check for just existing, it's a good way to make people more dependent on the gov't, who then controls you just a little bit more. They'd like to do something like that here, I'm sure.
 
Anne said:
Where would this money come from?? Taxpayers?? While it sounds wonderful to get a check for just existing, it's a good way to make people more dependent on the gov't, who then controls you just a little bit more. They'd like to do something like that here, I'm sure.
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I am sure that, once a country decides to create the "basic income barrier to complete homelessness", there will be tweaks and adjustments, just as there are with all new policies.

The government can already control you much the way stated in the quote. They can freeze bank accounts, they can arrest you as a terrorist, then send you to Gitmo, no questions asked (I'm in the USA, BTW). As far as being dependent on the government, no person has to be more dependent than they are comfortable with, unless they belong to a minority group and must fight for both jobs and equal pay, first. Nothing prevents citizens from working to improve their lot, but the stipend should prevent many of the problems folk develop from suffering long term homelessness.

The $2800.00 per month is probably cheaper than housing the poor in jails and psychiatric hospitals.

Only newborns "just exist". Even the long term unemployed consume food, and need clothing to land a job. They need protection from the weather and they need healthcare. I seriously doubt too many people will be content to simply sit on the little bit that 2,800 will cover but they can live with less background stress if they know they can at least pay for housing. Rates of stress sensitive and stress related disorders like diabetes, obesity, and high blood pressure might fall If people know they'll still be able to buy food and housing if they lose their job.
 

The money has to come from taxpayers, citizens who have worked for years and had money taken out of their paychecks for taxes, and pay taxes for all their purchases, etc. I think that people need to take some responsibility for themselves and their families in America, not just sit back and wait for the nanny government to dole out our hard earned tax dollars to those not willing to help themselves...bad example for the youth growing up also.

The poor shouldn't be in jails, unless they are criminals committing crimes. I don't think the poor are to be thought of as mentally ill either, so why would they be in psychiatric hospitals? :confused: Also, why would everyone get the $2800, even the richest that do not need it at all, that doesn't make any sense either.

I think that people who are willing to work, will find a way to become employed, but that desire needs to be present. Why would they even bother to be responsible and work for a living if they were handed checks for doing absolutely nothing. Maybe if the poor would actually spend the money they're given on health insurance, food and "necessary" clothing, it wouldn't be so bad. But, I've known of people, way back in the day, who traded their food stamps for cigarettes, alcohol and drugs. The welfare check is spent on cell phones, name brand clothing, manicures, etc...instead of diapers for the baby, health insurance, etc. etc.

I'm against it, my mother told me long ago that there was no free lunch. This nation will spiral downwards even faster with more free money gifts going to those who do not deserve it, or are not willing to help themselves. :dollar:
 
A humane attempt at finding a solution to homelessness and the financial hardship that so many are suffering.

I don't think it could work to that degree with a country with a much larger population...

But a redistribution of wealth is what the world needs.
 
The poor shouldn't be in jails, unless they are criminals committing crimes. I don't think the poor are to be thought of as mentally ill either, so why would they be in psychiatric hospitals? :confused: Also, why would everyone get the $2800, even the richest that do not need it at all, that doesn't make any sense either.
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The poor are also often homeless. There are sweeps that pick up homeless people , presenting them camping in doorways and sleeping on heated grates. Some of those homeless are put i jails for unlawful camping, trespassing, and other charges used to remove them. The local government keeps them out of sight, this way.

Other poor people are picked up by police and taken to the local emergency room for care. In the emergency room, doctor's determine who they release to police and who goes to detox, or the psyche ward. The poor are taken one of three places, where I live. Jail, the mental hospital, or Detox.

As far as who makes too much for the stipend, that is up to the locals. I do not know what the Swiss have come up with, yet. They are considering options.
 
Well, from what I understand, there are homeless shelters that exist to give those people a place to stay until they can get on their feet. They will also help them with finding employment when possible, or drug rehab. The ones that insist on living in the streets, are the ones not willing to give up their drinking and drug habits...that's why I don't give my hard earned money to street beggars anymore, I know better, they're not going to go to the store for a turkey sandwich, they're going to the liquor store for some cheap booze. Aside from the few that may be mentally ill, the others that want to walk the straight and narrow usually will find help along the way.
 
SeaBreeze said:
Well, from what I understand, there are homeless shelters that exist to give those people a place to stay until they can get on their feet. They will also help them with finding employment when possible, or drug rehab. The ones that insist on living in the streets, are the ones not willing to give up their drinking and drug habits...that's why I don't give my hard earned money to street beggars anymore, I know better, they're not going to go to the store for a turkey sandwich, they're going to the liquor store for some cheap booze. Aside from the few that may be mentally ill, the others that want to walk the straight and narrow usually will find help along the way.
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Homeless shelters are scary places and staying in them is asking for all sorts of trauma. The shelters here are just that, shelters. People can only be there at night. The rest of the day they are grappling with several choices. If they go to the job center to look for work, they are not foraging through dumpsters for food and they are only fed a dinner by the shelter.

It is no bed and breakfast.

I'm sure that people against any sort of basic stipend will keep it from ever happening in the USA. The majority of US citizens need to see how other have it worse than they do. I am positive that many actually enjoy seeing certain people homeless. They're afraid to admit it, so they use other terms to support their reasons.

After all, it was not all that long ago that gays could be evicted from any housing, for no other reason than their being gay.
 
Shelters are scarier and more trauma than the streets?? I've seen a lot worse in the ghettos of NY, and I don't enjoy seeing anyone homeless. Being fed dinner and a place to clean up and sleep at night is good temporarily while they seek work at the job centers. If it was a bed and breakfast, they would have no incentive to seek a better life for themselves.
 
The vast majority of homeless are in that situation because of choices they made. They don't deserve a free handout. In fact a free handout is the worse thing you can do for them. It enables them to continue the way they are.

There are some who get in bad situations because of a loss of job or other situation beyond their control. These people deserve a helping hand and we could afford to help them a lot more if we weren't wasting money and resources on the above.

I am glad to do what I can to help those who do their part, but those who refuse to work or quit the alcohol and drugs, I have no sympathy (or money) for.

Each one of us has had to make choices in life and we must take responsibility for the choices we make.
 
I agree, rkunsaw. That's one reason I don't give to many charities anymore - from what we hear, it's the ones at the top who end up living quite nicely, while little of the money goes to the ones who really need it.
If we know someone who needs help, we're glad to contribute in either money, food or whatever; but to just hand it over; you've no idea what it's used for.

There are homeless here who live in the tunnels under the city, who prefer it that way...not unlike the hippies of yesterday, they have 'dropped out' because it's easier than trying to struggle with going to work every day. They can hit the homeless shelters on occasion, and panhandle to get through.

Of course, that is a small percentage of them, but they are definitely out there. Shelling out more money isn't the answer.
 
SeaBreeze said:
Well, from what I understand, there are homeless shelters that exist to give those people a place to stay until they can get on their feet. They will also help them with finding employment when possible, or drug rehab. The ones that insist on living in the streets, are the ones not willing to give up their drinking and drug habits...that's why I don't give my hard earned money to street beggars anymore, I know better, they're not going to go to the store for a turkey sandwich, they're going to the liquor store for some cheap booze. Aside from the few that may be mentally ill, the others that want to walk the straight and narrow usually will find help along the way.
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I won't give ANY money to street beggars owning our own business taught me that the a majority we did at one time give a little to went to the store for cigarettes or liquor, now not all do this, but too many do and money is too hard to come by.
 
But not all homeless people are content to take handouts and are truly struggling to even get through the day. Sometimes a helping hand might be all that's needed to help them get on their feet again. I've never been homeless but I have been on my own with two small children and less than $40 in my wallet and no job so although I was lucky enough to find work in the nick of time, don't assume that those who panhandle or live on the street are doing it because they want to. A lot of them are just trying to survive.

Some are between a rock and a hard place. No where to go, no one to turn to and no half decent clothes to even approach a potential employer. And also, don't assume that they are all drunks or druggies and it isn't a preferred lifestyle for a lot of them.

We can't paint everyone with the same brush folks. There are people out there doing whatever they can to get by.
 
TICA said:
... We can't paint everyone with the same brush folks. There are people out there doing whatever they can to get by.
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Very true.

Another aspect to consider is that many of the homeless will refuse the use of an available shelter or charitable organization, for reasons ranging from pride to distrust to bad previous experiences. I knew one homeless guy in NYC who told me he'd never go to the Salvation Army center again, because he had to listen to a "spiel" (I'm assuming he meant a religious service).

Personally, if I were starving I'd be willing to listen to anything in trade for a meal.

Also there's the individuality thing going on ... many long-term homeless cannot adapt to the rules and regulations put forth by the free shelters. They feel trapped or fettered by The System and refuse to participate. Some also have an unofficial "record" of causing trouble in the shelters and are thus banned.

Finally, I would think the shelters are pretty much full-up in this economy and probably have waiting lists.
 
I've only had fleeting contact with the homeless, just passing them on the way to work, but they do seem to cover a wide range of types. One I may have mentioned used to dress in floral patterned, home made pants, a suit jacket and wear a Sombrero!

He 'lived' at and around Central for years. He used to sleep on the trains. He was a lovely polite old fellow and the platform staff all knew him and used to sneak him into a spare, unbooked compartment of an overnight train for a good night's sleep, a shower, and free brekky and he'd be gone for a couple of days until he got another freebie ride back. He was rattler rider I guess, but did it in 5 star style. He was the only one ever got away with that trick that I heard of so I presume he had some links to staff from former days or something.

I was in gossiping with the switchboard girls one night when one got a call and yelled something like 'you have to be bloody joking!' and pulled the plug on the call. She was outraged that it was someone calling to tell her that he'd got a bed at the Matthew Talbot doss house so would she tell 'Fred' he could have his usual seat on platform 1 for the night. "Do they think we're running a bloody hotel for them or something??" It was hilarious. They had networking down pat.

Another regular was a very black man, Papuan perhaps, who was always quite well dressed and would nod and smile at us as we passed. His 'bedroom' was a niche near the door we used so we saw him often. More than once I saw the patrol cops bring him a cup of soup or coffee or something and sit on the ground with him for a chat. Must have been 'history' there too.

One quite elderly man who'd turn up occasionally, used to paint all night. He'd turn up with a piece of board, sometimes just cardboard, that he'd picked up from a skip, and prop it against a window under a light. Then he'd bring his paints out of his bag and in the morning there would be a finished painting sitting there. He just left them behind for whoever wanted them. I know where one is.

A bloke I worked with came in all excited and said "he's painting a sailing ship!" Rick went down before dawn and waited for him to finish it, slipped him 10 bucks and loaded it in his car to go over the new bar he was putting in. He said the old fella didn't want to take the money! He was just happy that someone wanted his painting. That sure doesn't fit the stereotype of the homeless does it?

Maybe he wasn't homeless, just eccentric, we never saw him around during the day. I had a look at the painting before we drove off for home and it wasn't the best I've ever seen but it was as good as most. It was even on an unchipped piece of board. Bet Rick's still got it, he just loved it.

Still, that was all long ago now, the homeless aren't just drunks and eccentrics these days I guess.
 
cindy said:
I won't give ANY money to street beggars owning our own business taught me that the a majority we did at one time give a little to went to the store for cigarettes or liquor, now not all do this, but too many do and money is too hard to come by.
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This guy on the street hit me up for money to ride the bus, this was MANY years ago, when I was younger. Anyhoo, I took a quarter out of my pant's pocket and gave it to him. Instead of saying thanks, this joker got angry, put on his mad face, and raised his voice telling me that that was nothing, that ain't gonna get him where he needs to go. I told him, well get a f*#king job then buddy!!! We both walked away pi$$ed, only I was out a quarter that I had worked for. :rolleyes: That's only one incident that whittled away at my sharing and caring nature toward panhandlers. I'm very kind and probably have too much empathy for others, but my momma didn't raise no fool! :love_heart:
 
TICA said:
But not all homeless people are content to take handouts and are truly struggling to even get through the day. Sometimes a helping hand might be all that's needed to help them get on their feet again.
We can't paint everyone with the same brush folks. There are people out there doing whatever they can to get by.
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I don't paint everyone with the same brush at all, and I've been through some hard times myself in the past also. But...the people you're mentioning are the minority, not the majority. Give those people the $2800 a month to get on their feet, not all of the others that refuse to help themselves and are set to live off of the generosity of others for the rest of their lives.

Too many stories also about these homeless people who stand on street corners with cardboard signs begging for money...not food, not clothes, but cash $$$. Some of them make more than I brought home in a full forty hour workweek with a 10 hour weekend over-time shift!! Is it going to buy clothes to seek employment, or shop at the supermarket for food for the week...no, they go to McDonalds, the liquor store and their connection...then they crash at a buddy's house and do it all over again the next day.
 
We can't paint everyone with the same brush folks. There are people out there doing whatever they can to get by.

I don't think anyone is trying to paint them all the same. My post and others have clearly stated the difference.
 
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cindy said:
I won't give ANY money to rs owning our own business taught me that the a majority we did at one time give a little to went to the store for cigarettes or liquor, now not all do this, but too many do and money is too hard to come by.
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Your so right, we deal with homeless shelters and when people did come by and say ĂŹ need some money for gas to get here or ther".....and if y
 
Yes there are shelters for those that need it, and all too often they use any money they may beg from people to buy liquor or cigarettes, not food for sure. I agree with RKunsaw, it's the worse thing you could do, give them money..and in most cases if you offered to buy them a meal. they would say No Thank you ..
 
Australia is among the most wealthy countries in the world if you average it out but the income levels are very uneven. A lot of people are doing it tough.

We don't have a food stamp system but I've just watched a news item that talked about food banks. Companies donate food to the food bank which distributes the food to approved charities like the Salvation Army. The charities give it away to people who need but are reporting that they often have to turn people away because demand is rising and the food runs out more quickly. They also report that more recipients are working people whose income is just not enough to make ends meet.

If this is going on in a very rich country, what must it be like in the poor ones ?
 
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