A Basic Income for Every Adult

rkunsaw said:
We can't paint everyone with the same brush folks. There are people out there doing whatever they can to get by.

I don't think anyone is trying to paint them all the same. My post and others have clearly stated the difference.
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Didn't mean to offend anyone rkunsaw. :sorry:

I agree that there are some people who just don't want to work or try and improve their lives when its so easy to take handouts in whatever form is available. I also know there are those who have no choice and do need some help. I donate something to the food bank every time I go to the grocery store - it might only be a bag of rice or oatmeal, but my heart goes out to those who find themselves in a position where they can't feed their families for whatever reason.
 
Homeless_Vets.jpg
 

In Australia, we are entitled to the "aged pension" from the age of 65, subject to a means test to rule out those with substantial income and assets such as properties.

A married couple receive $623 each per fortnight (that's a combined total of $1246) whilst a single person receives $827 per fortnight. There is no income tax payable on this figure because it falls below the annual earnings threshhold figure of $18,000.

There are also other benefits such as free drivers licence, car registration in some states as well as discounts on gas, electricity and council rates.
I don't feel guilty about receiving this pension because I worked continuously for 45 years since leaving school at the age of 15. I paid hefty income tax for that working part of my life which obviously contributed to others aged pensions during that time.

How do these pension rates stack up against the USA rates ?
 
terra said:
... How do these pension rates stack up against the USA rates ?
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Here, our Social Security is determined by how much we made during our working years.

As a VERY rough estimate (from memory), if I were to collect my benefits at the following ages I could expect to collect these amounts every month -

*Retire at 62 years old - $750/mn
*Retire at 66 & 8 months - $1000/mn
*Retire at 70 years old - $1300/mn

We don't get any fuel, electric or other subsidies, unless you count special local programs which you have to jump through hoops to both apply for and receive, and even those are closed many times because of lack of funding. We don't get any special consideration for licenses or registrations that I know of, either.
 
Doubt anyone could survive on that here! ... and no free hospital and health care?? 'Mindblown' covers my reaction to that.

Sorry, but maybe it's time the US honchos started rethinking sorting out the rest of the World's 'rights' and used some of that 'defense' money to do a bit of a domestic tidy up for their own citizens. Something wrong with the system dya think??

No wonder the world and his mother are heading here in leaky boats! .... then again, maybe that's the problem, too many for the system to cope with the load? Took in too many of the 'poor and huddled masses' for the taxpaying citizens to support? .... sorry, just envisioning our future heading down that same path, I'm all depressed now.... siiiiigh.
 
Definitely something wrong with the system, but to suggest logical solutions like cutting down on the "imports" is tantamount to treason here. Voicing an opinion that we should close our borders for a while, at least until we can clean up the mess, is seen as being unpatriotic and un-American, and the human and social-rights groups will descend upon you with their lawyers like a hungry swarm of locust.

So, we're on a runaway train - it's still moving relatively slowly enough that we can jump off, but with every passing day the train picks up speed and the end of the track draws nearer. Soon we'll be moving too quickly to jump and will only be able to sit in our comfy seats and watch in horror as the End comes into view ...

"Well, Phil, YOU or your parents or your parent's parents were "imports", too! How DARE you say we should close our borders to all these poor, underprivileged people seeking asylum!"

Yeah, well, the difference is that my parent's parents worked hard every day of their lives here, and so did my parents, and so do I. I don't make my money by selling deadly drugs to kids or bopping some old lady over the head, I don't sit around waiting for the government dole and I make an effort to be a good citizen.

But now I'm called an elitist.

We have annual parades in many of our towns - Puerto Rican Pride parade, Black Pride parade, Gay Pride parade ... but no White Pride parade, no "My Ancestors Came To America and Helped To Make It Great" parades ... that's called "racist". It doesn't fit-in with the in-vogue revisionist history.

*shrug*

I don't have a whole lot of years left on this planet. Hopefully, if there IS something after this life, whoever is responsible for planning these things will come out with Life-After-Death 2.0, without all the bugs and crashes. Otherwise I'm going to be one very p*ssed-off ghost.
 
Definitely something wrong with the system, but to suggest logical solutions like cutting down on the "imports" is tantamount to treason here. Voicing an opinion that we should close our borders for a while, at least until we can clean up the mess, is seen as being unpatriotic and un-American, and the human and social-rights groups will descend upon you with their lawyers like a hungry swarm of locust.
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for link to that definition see http:Warrigal..... :rofl:

The rest of it, couldn't have put it better, same applies here now.
Racist refers to everything anyone else doesn't like mentioned. If you prefer dogs you're a cat racist.
... as I said, I see our future looming.
 
Warrigal said:
Australia is among the most wealthy countries in the world if you average it out but the income levels are very uneven. A lot of people are doing it tough.

We don't have a food stamp system but I've just watched a news item that talked about food banks. Companies donate food to the food bank which distributes the food to approved charities like the Salvation Army. The charities give it away to people who need but are reporting that they often have to turn people away because demand is rising and the food runs out more quickly. They also report that more recipients are working people whose income is just not enough to make ends meet.

If this is going on in a very rich country, what must it be like in the poor ones ?
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Does Australia provide food banks instead of having a food stamp program? If so, are all of the food banks associate with religious institutions, or are there a few secular food banks around?

I ask because I want to hear how other countries deal with poverty from those who live in them and not from news media, political parties, or organizations run by wealthy people and their corporations.

How doe Australia handle the homeless and the jobless?
 
If you want an income for life, put all your money in Amazon stock. I've made many millions in it and am now earning 60K per DAY for the rest of my life. It's the best investment for the average "joe." I buy all my food and necessities there as well.
 
Mitch86 said:
If you want an income for life, put all your money in Amazon stock. I've made many millions in it and am now earning 60K per DAY for the rest of my life. It's the best investment for the average "joe." I buy all my food and necessities there as well.
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Sounds like a plan.

All I need to do now is place a buy for 100,000 shares & hope that the stock will split a few times & climb back to at least to my purchase price.

Do you think splits will happen? How long do you think it will take until I get the kind of return you are getting?
 
These are symptoms of being in the end stages of a capitalist economy with overpopulation and declining planetary resources. The current economic system depends on constant growth that is a pyramid scheme that is already past its peak and has wrought an increasing wealth to poor gap, hopeless to improve on with much homelessness and illegal migration by desperate humans. If we don't change, the result will be increasing lawlessness and societal anarchy.

Humanity will need to face the fact more more and more, does not work forever. Before we can learn to live in sustainable ways, processes like a guaranteed base income will need to bridge the gap. It isn't poor folk blame that they were born into a vast competitive and increasingly unfair world.
 
Large wars is how the human species reduces the surplus population. If we had no wars, the food supply would be soon exhausted and the human species would go the way of the dinosaurs. If not for warlike leaders like Hitler, Stalin, Caesar, Napoleon, etc. none of us would be here today.
 
MercyL said:
I think Nixon came up with a plan similar to what the Swiss are considering. Everyone would get a basic "salary". IF you want more than what that salary provides, you go out and work for it. The stipend could help people with housing, clothing and/or food and those of us who still work would benefit more from that work than we currently do.

I like the idea, even if it has a few snags that need work.
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I would think it would increase the cost of living drastically then we'd be back to square one.
 
TeePee said:
I would think it would increase the cost of living drastically then we'd be back to square one.
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Increase it? Why? We don't have a basic income in Holland, but it's quite similar. If you work 3 days a week with a bachelor you get 2000.

If you work in the grocery store 3 days you get way less but you get extra from the govt and if you're old enough and lucky and not divorced you got a cheap govt house for 650 or so and in total around 2000. No job? Same around 2000. Then groceries don't get very expensive cause they can pay em little, boss makes a load of profit, but also taxes and in the end they just get what they should have gotten. Normal pay.

The flipside of this is: Why on earth should you work more than 3 days? If you work more you pay it as taxes. It's not like you have more for your kids.

Why should someone without a diploma who can only do hard lousy paid jobs work at all when you get paid anyway?

The houses only got expensive because of couples with 2 good jobs who paid more and more and sold em with profit. The way to make them not ask too insane much rent is crazy taxes if you don't live in the house yourself. The only way to make houses cheaper is build more small houses.
 
Dr.Colosso said:
Increase it? Why? We don't have a basic income in Holland, but it's quite similar. If you work 3 days a week with a bachelor you get 2000.

If you work in the grocery store 3 days you get way less but you get extra from the govt and if you're old enough and lucky and not divorced you got a cheap govt house for 650 or so and in total around 2000. No job? Same around 2000. Then groceries don't get very expensive cause they can pay em little, boss makes a load of profit, but also taxes and in the end they just get what they should have gotten. Normal pay.

The flipside of this is: Why on earth should you work more than 3 days? If you work more you pay it as taxes. It's not like you have more for your kids.

Why should someone without a diploma who can only do hard lousy paid jobs work at all when you get paid anyway?

The houses only got expensive because of couples with 2 good jobs who paid more and more and sold em with profit. The way to make them not ask too insane much rent is crazy taxes if you don't live in the house yourself. The only way to make houses cheaper is build more small houses.
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If I'm reading what you wrote right, everyone basically gets paid the same. If you have a better job you would get the same as someone who chooses not to work at all (2000). Is that right? If so, what would be the incentive to work?
 
TeePee said:
If I'm reading what you wrote right, everyone basically gets paid the same. If you have a better job you would get the same as someone who chooses not to work at all (2000). Is that right? If so, what would be the incentive to work?
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Yes well only the ones on the bottom and singles. The incentive to work is: Do something that will pay you way better, marry someone with a good job and then you have loads and can live in a villa except when you're young, because of shortage of houses.
 
RambleTamble said:
I think state run communes would be a much more cost effective way to end homelessness, but that would never happen in the U.S. because "it's communism!"
Dr.Colosso said:
Increase it? Why? We don't have a basic income in Holland, but it's quite similar. If you work 3 days a week with a bachelor you get 2000.

If you work in the grocery store 3 days you get way less but you get extra from the govt and if you're old enough and lucky and not divorced you got a cheap govt house for 650 or so and in total around 2000. No job? Same around 2000. Then groceries don't get very expensive cause they can pay em little, boss makes a load of profit, but also taxes and in the end they just get what they should have gotten. Normal pay.

The flipside of this is: Why on earth should you work more than 3 days? If you work more you pay it as taxes. It's not like you have more for your kids.

Why should someone without a diploma who can only do hard lousy paid jobs work at all when you get paid anyway?

The houses only got expensive because of couples with 2 good jobs who paid more and more and sold em with profit. The way to make them not ask too insane much rent is crazy taxes if you don't live in the house yourself. The only way to make houses cheaper is build more small houses.
Click to expand...
Dr.Colosso said:
Increase it? Why? We don't have a basic income in Holland, but it's quite similar. If you work 3 days a week with a bachelor you get 2000.

If you work in the grocery store 3 days you get way less but you get extra from the govt and if you're old enough and lucky and not divorced you got a cheap govt house for 650 or so and in total around 2000. No job? Same around 2000. Then groceries don't get very expensive cause they can pay em little, boss makes a load of profit, but also taxes and in the end they just get what they should have gotten. Normal pay.

The flipside of this is: Why on earth should you work more than 3 days? If you work more you pay it as taxes. It's not like you have more for your kids.

Why should someone without a diploma who can only do hard lousy paid jobs work at all when you get paid anyway?

The houses only got expensive because of couples with 2 good jobs who paid more and more and sold em with profit. The way to make them not ask too insane much rent is crazy taxes if you don't live in the house yourself. The only way to make houses cheaper is build more small houses.
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I
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Dr.Colosso said:
Increase it? Why? We don't have a basic income in Holland, but it's quite similar. If you work 3 days a week with a bachelor you get 2000.

If you work in the grocery store 3 days you get way less but you get extra from the govt and if you're old enough and lucky and not divorced you got a cheap govt house for 650 or so and in total around 2000. No job? Same around 2000. Then groceries don't get very expensive cause they can pay em little, boss makes a load of profit, but also taxes and in the end they just get what they should have gotten. Normal pay.

The flipside of this is: Why on earth should you work more than 3 days? If you work more you pay it as taxes. It's not like you have more for your kids.

Why should someone without a diploma who can only do hard lousy paid jobs work at all when you get paid anyway?

The houses only got expensive because of couples with 2 good jobs who paid more and more and sold em with profit. The way to make them not ask too insane much rent is crazy taxes if you don't live in the house yourself. The only way to make houses cheaper is build more small houses.
Click to expand...

Dr.Colosso said:
Yes well only the ones on the bottom and singles. The incentive to work is: Do something that will pay you way better, marry someone with a good job and then you have loads and can live in a villa except when you're young, because of shortage of houses.
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I kind of get it . It seems like the 2000 would be similar to welfare over here except only the destitute gets welfare over here. I'm lucky that I grew up in an era where there were good jobs. It seems like a lot of good jobs are being taken over by technology nowadays. I'd hate to be in the work force now.
 
I am greatly enjoying, that recent news (political so will avoid at depth) shows US politicians are actually starting to talk about clamping down on Wall Street real estate corporations and their financial banks, that as undeserving greedy outsiders, for years have been skewering the rest of us, effectively stealing our incomes, despite not being the source of wealth like foul parasites they are. A prime reason, so many of those at the lower end, increasingly need income help.

Of course, newspapers stories from their media puppets are in a frenzy now, given the prospect they will be shut out from their inconsiderate, selfish, feeding frenzy.
 
David777 said:
I am greatly enjoying, that recent news (political so will avoid at depth) shows US politicians are actually starting to talk about clamping down on Wall Street real estate corporations and their financial banks, that as undeserving greedy outsiders, for years have been skewering the rest of us, effectively stealing our incomes, despite not being the source of wealth like foul parasites they are. A prime reason, so many of those at the lower end, increasingly need income help.

Of course, newspapers stories from their media puppets are in a frenzy now, given the prospect they will be shut out from their inconsiderate, selfish, feeding frenzy.
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Some Canadian company tried it in Holland. Ask thousands rent for a house they bought. They just changed the law. Pay an absurd amount of taxes if you don't live in it yourself. They left.
From 3 years ago:
A major Canadian publicly traded real estate investor has put 6,900 Dutch rental properties up for sale. The company needs the proceeds for investments in its home country. The government's plans to further regulate rents are also a reason for selling the mega-portfolio.
"The interest rate situation is currently unfavorable, the regulation in the Netherlands has made things more difficult for us, and tax measures have also made the Netherlands less attractive," said Mark Kenney, CEO of the selling investor European Residential Reit (Eres), in an interview with the FD. "We want to focus purely on the Canadian market.
 

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