JFK the smoking gun

maxHR

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Just saw the show "JFK The smoking gun" on SBS TV australia. Crikey! JFK was accidentally shot by his own secret service??? Two bullets from Lee harvey Oswald, one from the secret service guy who lost his balance in the car and fired accidentally. Not new, but based on the book "mortal error" by Bonar Menninger.
Mulder.
 

Hi Max, long time no hear.... I have that recorded but haven't watched it yet. One more go round eh? We never seem to tire of that one do we? It's almost as big a national past-time as trying to figure out what happened to Harold Holt.
 
Hi Di, we needs ya back in australia, - forum turning into a zombie zone. The show is fan-bloody-tastic. Now i understand why Mulder and X files was such a huge hit.
Are you moving yet?
 

Yeah, well, zombie zones don't figure highly on my vacation list Max. You can only butt your head on brick walls for so long. Anyway, I know a couple of the zombies are more than happy with my absence. They were running short of parroted catch-phrases, and their 'team' lost. How're they handling that?

The move looks like around Feb at this stage, they're 'refurbishing' the joint.
I'll watch the JFK thing tomorrow night and give it an X scale then.

C'mon DB, you must remember 'Arold? The debates about alien abduction as opposed to the Chinese submarine conspiracy for the sudden vacancy in the PM's office? He never did wash up did he?


FTW: He was the serving Prime Minister of OZ in 1967 when he went surfing and never came out for his towel.
You 'mercans might get a few leaders shot but we just plain misplace ours.
Never did know for sure what happened but it was a rough surf, he was swimming near rock caves, it's prime shark territory, and he was obviously a half-wit to swim there, so guess he drowned or was taken out for dinner.

They never did find the body though despite half the Navy donning their best shiny black rubber outfits and searching diligently.
I think they're still looking.

It's all still treated as a bit of a joke, when someone drops out of sight they 'did a Holt' or 'an Arold'.

(We don't get all that attached to our politicians, no 'Camelots' here. )
 
Watched it Max, and I like the theory. Mainly because the notion of the Secret Service *ing up royally is so appealing.
As conspiracy theories go I'd rate it around 7 Xs. That is, the conspiracy to cover it up, not to instigate it. Oswald still wears that part of it. But he only got 2 shots off, not 3. The 3rd and fatal bullet was from the type of rifle seen in the hands of a Secret Services agent in the following car. Only one photo shows the weapon and the SS subsequently denied it was there at all. Was it a monumental Whoops?!.

No idea if this doco has aired in the States, probably not.

If anyone is still interested in this 50yo clusterfuffle here's a link to the doco.
It's an Australian production which covers a retired Australian detective's 'cold case' investigation. It's a view of the evidence from a new, and detached perspective, not influenced by US authorities 'coercion' tactics.

It makes very logical explanations of some of the 'mysteries', the 'magic' bullet etc. It's trajectory is dead straight taking into account that the Kennedy's seat was higher than the front seats to allow a better view of them by the public. A fact never mentioned in previous docos. Makes a lot of sense, but have a look for yourselves at this page.

http://www.sbs.com.au/thesmokinggun/

Keep scrolling down for a rundown of the evidence etc. Very well put together page, seeking input of opinion based on the evidence presented. There's also the op to watch it but that may be blocked if it hasn't aired there yet.

I'm too tired to go through it all now, will have a look at the page in detail tomorrow.

btw. if the page won't open, which it didn't for me at first, go to sbs.com.au then to 'Documentaries' on their home page and then The Smoking Gun. No idea if Google is 'in on' the cover up.
 
I'll check it out from home, at work right now.

A few years ago the BBC had a documentary about the assassination and they really did a great job.

How about Jackie was MKULTRA and she did it, ok it is really out there, but the proponents of it make a very convincing argument too.

Bascially any explanation other than the Warren Commission Report works better for me. LBJ or Castro or The Mob....
 
I cant get the link to play either, but I did find the trailer for the documentary on youtube, and am adding the link, so we can at least get a teaser for the movie.
I had read that it was a SS agent who shot Kennedy, but they thought it was part of a set up, I think by Johnson, or someone else high up in our government.
I have also read about the possibility of it being Mrs. Kennedy, and the MKUltra indoctrination, and while it IS way out there, the idea was well constructed, and certainly as possible as some of the other theories are.

http://youtu.be/Qn97UF_kfYo
 
Took out the Jesse Ventura book They Killed Our President from the library, haven't read it yet, but hubby says basically the Mafia and CIA were involved. Here's a show on Coast that I missed...

JFK Assassination
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2013/10/05


Date:
10-05-13
Host:
John B. Wells
Guests:
Jesse Ventura

John B. Wells was joined by former Governor of Minnesota, Jesse Ventura (book link), for a discussion of his research into the JFK assassination, an event he has been studying since 1985. Ventura voiced his doubt about the findings of the Warren Commission, noting how the circumstances surrounding JFK's death support a conspiracy against the president. Lee Harvey Oswald was not the killer, he declared.

Ventura spoke about the convenient deaths associated with the assassination, expressing disbelief at how easily Jack Ruby was able to kill Oswald and then himself pass away of a curiously fast acting cancer. Over the course of his interview, Ventura revealed information which showed that the U.S. government not only was behind this egregious plot but took every step to make sure the truth would not come out.

"When you look at the blood spray evidence, the fatal head shot obviously came from the front, it did not come from the rear [where Oswald was located]," Ventura continued, pointing to the blood covered windshields of two motorcycles behind president's car. Members of the medical team that worked on JFK recalled how the back portion of his head was missing, an injury consistent with a shot fired from the front, he explained. Ventura said he interviewed an ambulance driver who helped place JFK's body in the casket and he also confirmed that the back of the president's head was gone.

The shot clearly came from behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll and the assassin can almost be made out in the Moormon photo, he disclosed.

Ventura believes there was at least six shots fired that day and Oswald would not have been able to make them. Oswald was a radar operator in the military and there is no reason to believe he possessed the skills of an expert marksman, he said. In addition, Oswald allegedly would have to had shot at JKF through the branches of a large oak tree, he explained, noting the difficulty involved in making such shots.

According to Ventura, both himself and Marine sniper Carlos Hathcock were unable to replicate the shots credited to Oswald. He also mentioned Oswald's time in Russia as part of a false defector program and how he was never prosecuted for it, as well as how the lone gunman's tax returns remain top secret. These financial documents may show who in the government was paying him, Ventura suggested.

JFK had many enemies within the government because of his support for civil rights, work to end the cold war and plans to withdrawal U.S. from Vietnam, Ventura theorized.

As evidence, he referred to E. Howard Hunt's deathbed confession, which revealed how the CIA with Lyndon B. Johnson's approval had orchestrated the operation code named "The Big Event." Interestingly, Johnson's first order of business with the cabinet after JFK's death was to discuss war in Vietnam, Ventura said.

He mentioned other problematic details about the assassination, including secret service agents being ordered off the car and the police motorcycle formation changing at the last minute. He also cited a memo in which Nicholas Katzenbach calls for what seems to be a top-level government cover-up of JFK's killing, "We need something to head off public speculation or congressional hearings of the wrong sort."

Book(s):
 
I love Jesse Ventura and think he is just what we need more of and I tend to agree with a lot of his ideas, especially about JFK.

ARGH..still at work and I can't go to some places I'd like to, more later.
 
Thought not Phil, we quite often can't play videos from different zones, some form of protection for shows not aired yet perhaps?

It's all laid out in pics and text down the page anyway.
Just found another way to get to the page, at the bottom of the 'watch now' box in white text is "Interactive:view the evidence" which takes you to the page I mentioned.


Seems to me that it's usually the simplest, and dumbest cause that comes closest to solving history's mysteries.

All the red herring Mafia, Reds, or LBJ plots (LBJ ? really? He couldn't organize a picnic could he?) conspiracies don't come as near believable as some clutzy, gung ho, highly agitated, rookie Secret Service space cadet with a big gun in the following vehicle accidentally squeezing off a round in the million to one wrong direction when the car lurched or hit a bump.
(Did you know he was little more than a jumped up car polisher seconded from the car maintenance and allocation department because they were short handed that day? Hell, anyone would give that guy an assault rifle and the job of protecting the current leading light on the planet right?)

It's no stretch of the imagination to envisage the highly tuned cover-your-arse reflexes of the FBI kicking in to avoid blame falling on them.
The real conspiracy came after the shots, not before.

Who is the most likely contender to have concocted the deal that explains Jack Ruby's actions? Who was in a position to set that up at such short notice? The commos? the Mafia, not their style, LBJ? nup... the FBI witness protection crew gets my bet. That kind of thing was their stock in trade.

Who else had higher motivation to shut Oswald up than the FBI? If they had snuffed him quietly in custody it would have focused attention on them. The public performance of an apparently random 'patriot' shifted suspicion elsewhere.

Could you imagine the effect on the American public's psyche in that time of Cold War tension that the revelation of their 'infallible' Secret Service spooks being about as much protection as the Keystone Cops would have had? That fantasy had to be protected at any cost.

Those of us who were old enough to remember it all, ask yourself how you would have reacted to the news that JFK had been accidentally blown away by his own security detail? How gutted would you have felt?
And even more importantly, just how embarrassed would the US itself have been??

It would have been the laughing stock of the world. Nikita would have popped a vein rofling over it.
'The Emperor's new clothes' syndrome would have kicked in. The US' power would have been revealed as largely bravado and smoke and mirrors propaganda, just like everyone else's. The World would lose faith in their 'policeman.'

That JFK was killed rocked the World. But if it had known how he really died it would have knocked it fair off the tracks.

Can anyone think of a better reason for an instant and total cover-up?

I guess LBJ was involved to an extent in the subsequent cover up, he'd have to be, it was his Government's arse that was exposed to the blowtorch, but he would have been along for the ride, not orchestrating it.

I file most conspiracy theories under 'entertainment' but I really like this one. The 'Doh!' aspect especially appeals, and the ballistics evidence, if it's true as presented, convinces me.
Oswald's ammo was metal jacket which would have drilled a hole. The round that blew Kennedy's head apart had to be not only hollow point, but was found to be a different calibre. The calibre of the rifle the Security detail carried. Nuff said?

Personally, and don't take it wrong, I was massively relieved that day that someone had taken JFK out before he started WWIII.
I'd just turned 18 and wanted to live a bit longer. All we got were newspaper and rudimentary TV reports of JFK playing chicken with Kruschev without much explanation of background that an 18 yo girl was apt to investigate or understand.

To me, and my peers, he was the most dangerous man on the planet. I/we saw him much how Kim Jong appears to us now, a posturing egotistical, chest beating nut job. Not sayin' we were right, just telling it as we saw it at the time.
We were still used to politicians doing things differently here I guess, and weren't clued up yet to the bias and headline fetish of the press.
We still swallowed everything at face value and it, and he, all looked pretty damned scary from here.

Anyway, that's got the rambling cobwebs blown away for the morning. Americans no doubt viewed it all in a different light and I'd be interested to hear how you, personally, 'saw' it.
 
I agree Di, there was a rush by the secret service to cover their incompetence after the event. As Jack Nicholson said in "a Few good men", 'you can't handle the truth'. It would have devastated America to know the fatal bullet was fired by their own secret service. The secret service were out partying and womanising til the early hours of the morning, they denied even having a rifle, yet it was clearly photographed.
Something i noticed is how security is 'forward looking', - they look ahead for signs of trouble,- no one appears to be looking backwards for signs of trouble.
The tv show guy (Colin McLaren) has also written a book, "the smoking Gun" , amazon link below with many other conspiracy books listed:
http://www.amazon.com/JFK-The-Smoking-Colin-McLaren/dp/1743179537
 
I am suprised at how easily,all you folks are duped into falling for all these conspiracy theories non of which hold any water.
About the only hint of truth to any of them is the fact that the whole thing was a big put on. The man behind it all was non other than JFK himself. It was the simplest if not the only way he and Marylin could be together. Don't non of you tell me you believed she was dead too.
 
Well I am sorry DI. I didn't mean to seem inconciderate but I figured it was about people knew.



Well there you go spoiling the fun with facts again Sid.

Geeze have a bit of consideration for those of us who haven't worked it all out yet.
 
The scariest thing about that Warri is that I could follow that plot, it made perfect sense in Lister's universe, and I even had a snigger.

It must time they repeated it again, has to be at least 6 months since it got a run.
 
Noteworthy dialogue from Tikka to Ride

Lister: Well, come with us back to Dallas, November 1963, be a second gunman. The gunman behind the grassy knoll.
Kennedy: You mean, assassinate myself?
Lister: Yeah! It'll drive the conspiracy nuts crazy, but they'll never figure it out.

It worked.
All the conspiracy theorists are nuts crazy.

:giggle:
 
See it's those kind of attitudes and comments that make us paranoid! People like you conspire to denigrate our honestly held beliefs in the unknowable and mock our attempts to better understand the true meaning of our place in the great conspiracy that created us.

You attack our faith in the omniscient powers of human chicanery and totally deny the existence of the trinity of the Power, the Money, and the Holy Ego as the creating force behind all conspiracies! Shame on you, you...you heretic!

'D'ja like that one?
 

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