The Phillipines!

[dbeyat45]

There is no "signature" of global warming in this or any other recent typhoon/cyclone/hurricane/tornado/etc. Accumulated Cyclonic Energy (ACE), measured globally is low and has been for a long time while the world has warmed. There is nothing, repeat nothing, special about the current typhoon except that it's a big nasty one.

[h=2]Some history of the Philippines and typhoons[/h] Oct 22, 1882

“Observatory says lowest barometer at 11.40 a. m., 727.60 ; highest velocity wind registered, 144.4 miles an hour. Unable to measure greatest velocity of typhoon as anemometer damaged.”
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/38278695
​

The Philippines government says that the top speed registered for typhoon Haiyan was 146 MPH.

Oct 21, 1897
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14101833
Dec 16, 1900
“A terrific cyclone was encountered on December 16, when the vessel was to the eastward of the Philippines. The tempest raged for three days, and the vessel was absolutely uncontrollable.”
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14356766
Sep 27, 1905
TYPHOON AT MANILA. THOUSANDS HOMELESS.
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4965581
Sep 20, 1906
Destructive Typhoon in the Philippines.Vessels wrecked.1000 lives lost in Hongkong.
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4343461
10 Jan 1907
TYPHOON IN THE PHILIPPINES. A HUNDRED MEN KILLED.
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5052954
23 Sep 1908
TYPHOON IN THE PHILIPPINES.GREAT LOSS OF LIFE.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5187348
19 Oct 1912
GREAT TYPHOON.Heavy Loss of Life.Damage of £5,000,000.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10518642
30 Nov 1912
A BIG TYPHOON.DEVASTATION IN THE PHILIPPINES.THOUSANDS KILLED.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5355894
12 May 1913
TYPHOON IN PHILIPPINES.FIFTY-EIGHT LIVES LOST.EXTENSIVE DAMAGE.
The typhoon was the most severe experienced for eight years.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/90934517
27 Oct 1915
PHILIPPINES TYPHOON.A TOWN WIPED OUT.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10434066
3 Sep 1920
TYPHOON IN PHILIPPINES.MUCH DAMAGE DONE.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11490381
12 June 1923
Disastrous Typhoon.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2008470
27 June 1925
TYPHOON IN PHILIPPINES. ELEVEN PEOPLE KILLED.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/84052280
28 Nov 1928
The Philippines have been swept by a typhoon described as the worst known for years.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/29319617
10 Dec 1938
TYPHOON RAVAGES PHILLIPINES. HUNDREDS HOMELESS.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/76063407
​

 

[Warrigal]

Diwundrin, you are showing admirable empathy for someone who has never faced such horror as the people of the Philippines have lived through. There are times when all your preparations and plans are to no avail and all that is left is fate and the kindness of strangers. Those that have survived should not be judged. What they need above all is compassion. And generous practical aid.

I see that our government has sent a trauma hospital with fully trained staff that can perform operations and disease control. Other will send food and other necessities of life. May it all arrive swiftly but even so more lives will be lost in very tragic circumstances.

 

[dbeyat45]

Repeat post:

Australians (and others?) can donate to the Red Cross Appeal here:
http://www.redcross.org.au/typhoon-haiyan-2013.aspx

 

[Diwundrin]

Diwundrin, you are showing admirable empathy for someone who has never faced such horror as the people of the Philippines have lived through.

No Warri, nothing like Haiya, but I have tried to sleep in a house built on poles through a few of those cyclones we had here back in the 50s and I can extrapolate what a really bad one must be like. The whole house swayed for 2 full days through one of them but we didn't get out... there was nowhere else to go, only to other old houses in worse condition or sit in the street in the weather. (That house is still standing to this day btw, they built 'em gooood back then.) No matter what dates we chose we always seemed to rent it at exactly the same time one of the cyclones hit, 4 straight years we got it wrong, one year we just missed one then the next year one got us again! It was part of the 'holiday experience.'

The one bright side of cyclones is that fish get positively suicidal in the hours before the worst of it hits the coast and Bream would bite on bare hooks. Anything that moved was food to them, maybe they were packing their own form of 'go' bags before the river flooded and pushed them out to sea away from their feeding grounds.
Standing knee deep, fishing in nothing but a swimsuit and a raincoat in a steadily increasing gale and the sky looking like doomsday is a lasting memory of those holidays. It was actually fun to the very much younger me.

Electricity wasn't even connected to that fishing village back then so blackouts weren't a problem, and we had more fish than we could eat before it went off and it keeps longer once cooked anyway. We had a primus to cook it on and a kero fridge to keep it in, and we had a full house tank of water so we were okay until the rivermouth was clear enough to fish again. Of course if the house had gone over we'd have been in the proverbial, but it didn't. We did get tired of fish for 3 meals a day though. It was that or Weetbix with water or that appalling tinned stew and a boiled potato by the end of the week.

Getting out of the village wasn't on either. We didn't own a car, and neither did most of the residents. Only the store owner had a jeep big enough to carry more than 4 out to the highway to catch the passing bus of the day, and he wasn't going anywhere.
The highway was flooded either side of the turnoff so it would have been a very short evacuation, and no bus to catch.

The campers of course were all long gone but the rest of us just rode it out. There was big heavy hinged shutter that covered the window and verandah end on the seaward side, it took 2 men to manhandle that down and secure it but it did the trick.
I remember the amount of debris left as being mindblowing to a city kid, but of course nothing compared to that in the Phillipines.

I've known a lot of Phillipinos at all ratings of likeable but even the ones I wouldn't trust with a dollar I respected for their 'can do' and practical attitude to life. I guess that's why this one has 'touched' me whereas I remained disconnected to others. It's just a rather shallow judgement based on personal experiences I guess. Don't worry Warri, no Mother Theresa syndrome likely to break out here any time soon.
I just see the Phillipines as more deserving of a hand up than many. I'm not very PC egalitarian that way I'm afraid.

 

[Warrigal]

It's the smaller details that bring home the full horror.

Nov 13 (Reuters) - In the chapel of the only functioning public hospital in typhoon-ravaged Tacloban, seven tiny, premature babies lie sweltering in intense heat, looked over by anxious mothers and a wooden statue of Christ.

An eighth, born two days after Friday's monster storm hit the central Philippines, is kept alive only by his exhausted grandmother who pumps air by hand into his sick lungs. Only one baby, his face bruised purple from a hurried delivery by forceps, is strong enough to cry.

The others are eerily quiet as they battle to survive in a hospital without power, clean water, and running out of essential medical supplies.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/philippines-typhoon-hospital-idUSL4N0IY2OP20131113

 

[Diwundrin]

I do wonder sometimes how come these reporters can not only get to these villages but bring cameras and equipment with them that take up space better utilized by something of benefit to those they make their living from. I'm sure a box of food concentrate or a water purifier instead of a recorder, and a cameraman sized pack of bottled water would have been a better use for the helicopter space.
I saw one report where a villager ran up and asked one if he had brought any food or water, how embarrassing. At least I hope he was embarrassed.

 

[dbeyat45]

[h=3]Deeply Conflicted About Weather Extremes[/h]http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/deeply-conflicted-about-weather-extremes.html

Pielke Jr. is professor of environmental studies at the Center for Science and Technology Policy Research at the University of Colorado at Boulder

 

[SifuPhil]

Phil! You're kidding right? The Phillipines doesn't have a 'mainland'. Their whole Country is that group of 'isolated' islands and 28 million people won't all fit on the highest one. Nor can an entire Country be evacuated every time a typhoon warning is issued.

They could relocate to Taiwan or any other major landmass that lies within the area.

This reminds me of the people here in Pennsylvania that have lost literally everything but their lives in the numerous floods the area is prone to. They lost it all, yet they REFUSE to move to higher ground a mile away.

The ramshackle huts weren't the only thing affected, it knocked down concrete buildings and left cargo ships halfway up hills.

Not "halfway up hills" - up on the beach. And yes, it knocked down concrete buildings as well but statistically you stand a better chance of survival in a concrete building than in a hand-made hut on the edge of the water made out of scrap 1x4s.

Not everyone can afford to live in a stormproof mansion you know, they're not '3rd World' but it ain't Manhattan either. They don't just sell big screen TVs, they make the parts for 'em. But their main income derives from food production. Ironic? The crops, and the processing plants are in the main kaput. But even though they must have stored food on some of the islands they don't have any way of getting it to where it's needed most. They don't have the planes and ships, and the roads when they get there are impassable.

All the more reason to have your OWN supplies.

Those in the worst hit areas ran out of arms to hang on to their 'go' bags, they were holding onto their kids.

Seriously? You can't wear a backpack AND hold onto your kids?

One man was demonstrating how he was left with nothing left but his toilet to hang on to and he had both arms around it. I don't think a go bag was a high priority just then.

Always the sign of a trained survivalist - hugging a toilet during times of stress. What good did it do?

I'd be willing to bet that every single one of those homes, even the ramshackle ones, would have had supplies put by, as I said, they aren't silly.
They were simply blown away and outgunned by nature at it's nastiest.

They may have had them "put by" but they didn't have them in a form appropriate for such a common occurrence as typhoons.

Dunno about you but they impressed me that they came through it as well as they did. The rigged up clothes lines to dry what clothes they can find, and shelters built from the debris that they've constructed for themselves, and the utensils they've gathered from the mess to make at least a semblance of a 'home' under a sheet of tin propped up on a fridge, which is more than I'd expect most societies to accomplish after something like that.

Yes, I do give them credit for that.

Most seem to just sit down and wail.

Yet another sign of what a prepared person does. It always makes your lot much better by crying.

/sarcasm

They've done their level best to help themselves and I admire that. That food is simply no longer available isn't just down to their bad management. That their water supplies are contaminated isn't either. I'd expect canned food would be picked up from wherever it landed but it wouldn't still be in cupboards and it wouldn't be enough.

I maintain that if they had planned their emergency supplies properly they wouldn't be as desperate as they are, and that boils down to bad management.

btw, Tell me something, if you were the only one in the village smart enough to have strapped a weeks worth of food and water around you in your go bag could you sit there with it and let the neighbours and relatives kids go thirsty and hungry? Could you eat it front of them?

If it meant MY survival over THEIRS? Hell, yeah! I'm not sure if you realize how your thinking changes in a survival situation - it's no longer rainbows and puppies, it's survival at all costs.

I've got a few 'survivalist' types rels and friends and they have it all figured out too, but it depends on the landscape you find yourself in as to how well you will fare with that. What is good planning in the aftermath of some disasters in some places is impossible to implement in others.

Very true.

Robinson Crusoe didn't have several hundred thousand neighbours to compete with for food, if you see what I mean?

Neither did Adam and Eve, but they're also all fictional characters.

And why would you expect them to behave any differently, or better than other similar societies in other nations?

I never said I did.

As with any other country there will be survivors and there will be non-survivors. Some of it is up to chance, but chance favors the prepared. Sheep will always be sheared but the wolves will always be around.

It's been close on a week for them now, so that 'go' bag is looking sadly depleted, what's the next move?

The entire purpose of a go-bag is to provide life-sustainment until you can reach either (A) an alternate location or (B) find more supplies, or (C) help arrives. The longer you are alive the better your chances of survival - it's that simple. You don't just sit on the curb munching your energy bars and sipping your water - you should be actively seeking out better conditions or fresh supplies and not just sitting there crying or hugging your toilet.

It's not the States, it doesn't have the resources to be trained or trucked in for relief. It doesn't have another few thousand miles of country to evacuate to either.

It's their choice to remain there, just like the locals who are just existing and waiting for the next flood here..

I'm sorry but I have to remember the clusterfuffle that New Orleans was, what if New Orleans had been a thousand miles from the 'mainland' of a foreign Country and not part of the US? How much worse would that have been? ... and where exactly were the residents going to find food after a week? Loot it? Surely not. Maybe they would even have stolen a survivalist's go bag. gasp.

But it wasn't.

Had they tried to steal MY go-bag they would just become another one of the bodies left in the detritus.

 

[SifuPhil]

I do wonder sometimes how come these reporters can not only get to these villages but bring cameras and equipment with them that take up space better utilized by something of benefit to those they make their living from. I'm sure a box of food concentrate or a water purifier instead of a recorder, and a cameraman sized pack of bottled water would have been a better use for the helicopter space.
I saw one report where a villager ran up and asked one if he had brought any food or water, how embarrassing. At least I hope he was embarrassed.

Without that camera equipment the world would be less informed of the event, thus the world could not donate all their money and supplies. They have cargo planes and naval vessels filled with supplies - what good, logistically speaking, would one person carrying water and a candy bar in a helicopter be?

It's called gaining exposure, a potentially much more life-saving technique.

C'mon, Di - this is first-grade stuff! You should KNOW this already.

 

[SifuPhil]

Diwundrin, you are showing admirable empathy for someone who has never faced such horror as the people of the Philippines have lived through.

I KNOW you aren't referring to ME, because you do not know WHAT I have been through ... :numbness:

 

[Warrigal]

Then there is another complication

Typhoon Haiyan: gun culture of the Philippines hinders relief efforts

A combination of unlucky geography, poverty, poor government and widespread gun use have exacerbated the effects of Typhoon Haiyan

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...f-the-Philippines-hinders-relief-efforts.html

 

[SifuPhil]

Then there is another complication

LOL! The Phillipines are a gangsta nation!

Who would have thought?

 

[Judi.D]

Just a thought. I would imagine that most people who live in shacks are more focused on just surviving day to day. The idea of preparing for something like this that may happen isn't a luxury they can afford.

The bottom line is they need help now. Help is there and coming, but it will never be quick enough. That is the reality of a disaster of this magnitude.

They need our thoughts and prayers, and any help we can give.

 

[SifuPhil]

Just a thought. I would imagine that most people who live in shacks are more focused on just surviving day to day. The idea of preparing for something like this that may happen isn't a luxury they can afford.

Very true, and it's a sad but real fact that the poor always suffer the most in both natural and man-made disasters.

The bottom line is they need help now. Help is there and coming, but it will never be quick enough. That is the reality of a disaster of this magnitude.

They need our thoughts and prayers, and any help we can give.

Well said.

After reading Warri's link above I would think that the most important logistic now would be getting the supplies to the people that need them, without them falling prey to the black marketers and the corrupt government troops. Of course, that's a concern in ANY such situation no matter WHERE it occurs.

 

[JustBonee]

Along with the gangs taking over and shooting up the place now .. the news media shows the troops delivering those 50 lb bags of rice to the area of worst destruction. .. greeted by gangs, and a shootout?
Just how does delivering big bags of rice save the day?? ... wandering around with nowhere to go, with a big bag of rice.

 

[SifuPhil]

Along with the gangs taking over and shooting up the place now .. the news media shows the troops delivering those 50 lb bags of rice to the area of worst destruction. .. greeted my gangs, and a shootout?
Just how does delivering big bags of rice save the day?? ... wandering around with nowhere to go, with a big bag of rice.

See, that's why I wonder exactly what the effect of sending in $20 will have.

The sunshine-and-skittles view is that the money will go for food and water and medical supplies directly to those in need. The reality is that, based upon previous situations, the lion's share of the money will be scarfed up by the corrupt politicians, the supplies will be stolen and sold at inflated prices and the pain and suffering will continue long after it should have ended.

Trying to fix an entire culture within days by sending a few bucks just doesn't cut it. All it does is soothe our own guilt and make us feel good about ourselves.

 

[Judi.D]

Unfortunately it is not just limited to their culture. Similar things happened in this country after Katrina and more recently Sandy. It is just the reality of life anywhere. There will always be those who take advantage of these situations. No guilt, but it does make me feel better and that is worth $20. and maybe just maybe it will help.

 

[Diwundrin]

Phil, I just can't get past this relocate obsession you exhibit.layful:
It's their Country, they were born there. Even if they wanted to they can't ALL emigrate, although a goodly few do. But honestly, 28 million people should just up and leave? Why isn't Tornado Alley in the US bereft of population? What's stopping them from relocating to Mexico? At least they could walk or drive, bit harder to cross an ocean.
Most of the World's population is on the move in one way or another and they won't all find some safe haven to settle in. Those places are going to get really, really crowded.

Evacuation:
How many million do you think Taiwan would have been happy to accept for a short holiday away from the Typhoon?
... and why would they? Would the States accept 28 million Fillipino immigrants in one batch?
Who would have supplied the logistical hardware to transport even a few million at short notice? Presuming of course that they could even predict and pinpoint which part of which islands would be in the eye of the typhoon?

Many no doubt did move to high ground, or there'd be millions dead, not thousands, but they couldn't take their houses or crops with them.

Maybe Taiwan is an option for those flood prone Pennsylvanians, I'm sure they'd be happy to leave their homeland for a life in a foreign land that doesn't want them and can't support them. How many million are we talkin' here? ... and while I'm at it, how long did it take to get supplies into New Orleans, and to evacuate them to other parts of the US?, just don't quite remember now but seemed more than a couple of days.

That go bag thing: You are predicating your entire argument upon your own circumstances as a fit, single, unencumbered man. You, and the vast majority of survivalists fall into that category. Most of us don't. It's a perfectly logical theory for those qualified, but it's not something that will work for the long term survival of more than a few. The more that survive the harder it would get. But never mind, go bag or not most of us wouldn't last all that long 'in the wild' anyway.

That Robinson Crusoe analogy, yes he was fictional, but based on the story of castaway sailor Alexander Selkirk so not conceding that point.
Adam and Eve I'll leave alone for the time being.

Just looked at the time and have to get up at 6 so as it's already 1am I'd better have a lie down and leave the other points for another time.

Time out??

'night all.

 

[Warrigal]

I'm with Di, Phil, your philosophy may save your neck in a crisis but then again maybe not.
There is only so much you can prepare for, the rest is up to chance.

I believe, as do most of my countrymen, that by clubbing together in groups we enhance our chances of survival.
For you it seems to be all for one but I believe in one for all as well.

Di calls me Pollyanna and not without reason, but Pollyanna is actually a realist. She sees the dark side of human nature but refuses to stop believing in the light. Even though there may be lawlessness and chaos after a disaster, we still need to do everything possible to save lives and restore order. If all we can do is donate money, then so be it. Some courageous souls actually brave the dangers to bring relief and they deserve our support too.

I donate monthly to medicin sans frontiers because I know that they will be there as soon as they can. Very often they are there or nearby and ready to go into action very quickly. They will save lives.

 

[Katybug]

... and they're looting the stores and taking big-screen TVs. Pretty hard to explain THAT from a survival point of view.

Proves they're just as human as the next guy, and a little more American than you might suspect.

Yes, it is hard to explain that, Phil. Seems the looting starts with every catastrophe everywhere. It's overwhelming to watch the reports tho, so many lives lost and such devastation. Wondering how much the USA will kick in with Haiti remaining our main interest in rebuilding outside our country, when we don't have it to give!

 

[Katybug]

I'm with Di, Phil, your philosophy may save your neck in a crisis but then again maybe not.
There is only so much you can prepare for, the rest is up to chance.

I believe, as do most of my countrymen, that by clubbing together in groups we enhance our chances of survival.
For you it seems to be all for one but I believe in one for all as well.

Di calls me Pollyanna and not without reason, but Pollyanna is actually a realist. She sees the dark side of human nature but refuses to stop believing in the light. Even though there may be lawlessness and chaos after a disaster, we still need to do everything possible to save lives and restore order. If all we can do is donate money, then so be it. Some courageous souls actually brave the dangers to bring relief and they deserve our support too.

I donate monthly to medicin sans frontiers because I know that they will be there as soon as they can. Very often they are there or nearby and ready to go into action very quickly. They will save lives.

Big kudos to you for your donations to such a worthy cause, WG. I hope there will relief and major support for this desperate situation.

 

[JustBonee]

It looks, from this map, that there was room for movement away from the eye of storm.

But what information were they given ahead of landfall?

 

[Katybug]

I do wonder sometimes how come these reporters can not only get to these villages but bring cameras and equipment with them that take up space better utilized by something of benefit to those they make their living from. I'm sure a box of food concentrate or a water purifier instead of a recorder, and a cameraman sized pack of bottled water would have been a better use for the helicopter space.
I saw one report where a villager ran up and asked one if he had brought any food or water, how embarrassing. At least I hope he was embarrassed.

Well stated, and "ain't" it the truth???!!!

 

[SifuPhil]

Unfortunately it is not just limited to their culture. Similar things happened in this country after Katrina and more recently Sandy. It is just the reality of life anywhere. There will always be those who take advantage of these situations. No guilt, but it does make me feel better and that is worth $20. and maybe just maybe it will help.

Well said.

Phil, I just can't get past this relocate obsession you exhibit.layful:

It stems from my transference fixation - since I want to leave Pennsylvania I transfer that longing to the world's population.

It's their Country, they were born there. Even if they wanted to they can't ALL emigrate, although a goodly few do. But honestly, 28 million people should just up and leave? Why isn't Tornado Alley in the US bereft of population? What's stopping them from relocating to Mexico? At least they could walk or drive, bit harder to cross an ocean.

Most of the World's population is on the move in one way or another and they won't all find some safe haven to settle in. Those places are going to get really, really crowded.

I'm not saying they should all move, but I AM saying that they shouldn't be moaning and weeping when a known phenomenon visits them yet again. Refer back to my statement about the PA'ers who stay in flood-prone areas. I REALLY AM puzzled why people would do that. What - their Mommy and Daddy were born there and they "can't" leave? Their garden is finally just the way they want it? They've "spent too long there" to move (something I hear a LOT of)?

Then when the floods do come, as living next to the river you KNOW they're going to, don't go running to the government begging for help that comes from MY tax dollars. I shouldn't have to support stupidity. Yet that is exactly what happens: many of these people are suing FEMA and all the other alphabet-soup agencies for their lack of "prompt action". Granted, some places are still abandoned since the last flood two years ago, and people have moved in with their extended families or found apartments, but they're constantly harping in their "Letters to the Editor" and the human interest stories on the TV news about how they're being worked-over by the government and crying that they need help. There are still some from the '72 flood that are complaining about lack of aid!

Evacuation:
How many million do you think Taiwan would have been happy to accept for a short holiday away from the Typhoon?
... and why would they? Would the States accept 28 million Fillipino immigrants in one batch?

Who would have supplied the logistical hardware to transport even a few million at short notice? Presuming of course that they could even predict and pinpoint which part of which islands would be in the eye of the typhoon?

I'm not a fan of evacuation in a situation like that - as you can see from the pics they brought in military troops to try to maintain order but I'm sure it was still a SNAFU. Families were split up, weakening further the survival chances of the ones that remained.

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that evacuation would be the answer - I was referring to my relocation fetish.

Many no doubt did move to high ground, or there'd be millions dead, not thousands, but they couldn't take their houses or crops with them.

True, but they are STILL ALIVE. That's #1 on the survival hit parade. You can replace anything but a human life.

Maybe Taiwan is an option for those flood prone Pennsylvanians, I'm sure they'd be happy to leave their homeland for a life in a foreign land that doesn't want them and can't support them. How many million are we talkin' here? ... and while I'm at it, how long did it take to get supplies into New Orleans, and to evacuate them to other parts of the US?, just don't quite remember now but seemed more than a couple of days.

Pennsylvanians would never go to Taiwan - there isn't any good Polish sausage to be had. layful:

New Orleans was just another example of what I'm talking about - living in an area that you KNOW to be dangerous. Putting faith into government-built levees. Basing the safety of you and your entire family on a roll of the dice. And it isn't just because they were poor - even without money you can live a life that eliminates some of the big disaster potentialities, or at least moderates their effects.

That go bag thing: You are predicating your entire argument upon your own circumstances as a fit, single, unencumbered man. You, and the vast majority of survivalists fall into that category. Most of us don't. It's a perfectly logical theory for those qualified, but it's not something that will work for the long term survival of more than a few. The more that survive the harder it would get. But never mind, go bag or not most of us wouldn't last all that long 'in the wild' anyway.

... and that is the Way of Nature. Survival of the fittest. All of this artificial lengthening of life-spans, every rescue of a disaster-struck area is another smack in the face of The Way Things Are Meant To Be. We allow our emotions to get the better of us and fly to the aid of those who are unlucky, and it seems on the surface to be a wonderful thing, but in doing so we are messing around with forces that we don't understand. Maybe this is Nature's way of saying that the population is too large ...

That Robinson Crusoe analogy, yes he was fictional, but based on the story of castaway sailor Alexander Selkirk so not conceding that point.
Adam and Eve I'll leave alone for the time being.

I figured you'd know about Selkirk - touche!

Yeah, ol' A&E we won't get into - I can't imagine what THEIR go-bags would contain - apples and fig leaves?

Just looked at the time and have to get up at 6 so as it's already 1am I'd better have a lie down and leave the other points for another time.

Time out??

'night all.

Time out. Happy dreams!

I'm with Di, Phil, your philosophy may save your neck in a crisis but then again maybe not.
There is only so much you can prepare for, the rest is up to chance.

But relying upon a roll of the dice - or the kindness of a stranger - is no way to plan for your future. The more you prepare, every extra bottle of water you put in your knapsack and every extra .38 cartridge you pack for your revolver is reducing the effects of chance and strengthening your ability to survive "against all odds".

I believe, as do most of my countrymen, that by clubbing together in groups we enhance our chances of survival.
For you it seems to be all for one but I believe in one for all as well.

Granted I'm a loner, so that's my perception of situations like this.

Di calls me Pollyanna and not without reason, but Pollyanna is actually a realist. She sees the dark side of human nature but refuses to stop believing in the light. Even though there may be lawlessness and chaos after a disaster, we still need to do everything possible to save lives and restore order. If all we can do is donate money, then so be it. Some courageous souls actually brave the dangers to bring relief and they deserve our support too.

Here again, as I replied to Di I wonder if all this altruistic trouble and strife is actually going against the natural order of things ...

I donate monthly to medicin sans frontiers because I know that they will be there as soon as they can. Very often they are there or nearby and ready to go into action very quickly. They will save lives.

Good for you - you should be proud of that.

Yes, it is hard to explain that, Phil. Seems the looting starts with every catastrophe everywhere. It's overwhelming to watch the reports tho, so many lives lost and such devastation. Wondering how much the USA will kick in with Haiti remaining our main interest in rebuilding outside our country, when we don't have it to give!

Exactly. And I would further add, fix your own house before you go out to put a new roof on your neighbor's. But that's a disease this country has always had, so I don't see it changing any time soon.

 

[That Guy]

"Cloud 9" da Pillapeens!