When Children Abandon Their Parents - Sensitive

I've skimmed through this thread rather quickly but a couple points caught my eye:

Like Brookswood said, 'you can't control other people' (in other words, if you expect something from someone, you're open to being disappointed)
Someone else said something along the lines of there being no rule that children and parents will like each other and sometimes life is more peaceful if you aren't inflicting yourselves on each other.

Ten years ago, I left my mother behind and moved across the country. Our relationship has always been tense, not unfriendly but just tense even when it's 'good'. Next spring, I will be moving back to within an hour of my mother's home. She is 81 and her health could change suddenly and then I'll be close enough to get to her as needed.

I'm not thrilled about having to be close and helping her but I'm doing it because I would feel guiltier for not being there for her, than I will feel miserable because I have no choice but to spend time with her. The real tragedy is that I'm going to be leaving behind my two grandchildren who adore me so that I can be there to help my mom who has never seemed to like me since I hit puberty. (they adore me because I'm the grandma who wrestles with Liam, plays computer games with him and plays 'kitty' with Elsa in the blanket fort that we make out of the couch cushions :eek:).

If parents are wondering why their kids don't return or keep in touch, maybe they need to consider how they talk to those wayward adult children. Do they respect them enough to let them finish sentences, listen to their ideas and thoughts even when they're different than 'mom/dad's' thinking or do they slip into the 'I'm the mother/father and I know what's right and you must listen to me and go along with my ideas'. Do they interfere with how the kids are brought up, over ride mommies decisions or support them, or are they openly critical whenever they do visit. That's what my mother does all the time to me and seriously, if I wasn't the kind of person who feels the guilt of my own decisions, I'd probably be a lot happier if I only phoned once every six months or variations thereof.
 

A lot has been written about parents who have to deal with 'strong willed' children. But, children often have to deal with 'strong willed' parents, and often it is not fun. While these parents often rebelled against their own parents so that they could live their own lives, they seem to not want their children to have the same option. Rather, the children, like most of the rest of the world, must conform to their views on how things should be done, etc.

Like I said earlier " you can't control other people' and the attempts to do so usually only create stress, mostly for the person who want to control others and their immediate family. If you have a parent or child who is difficult, beware the 'covert contract' you may make with them " I will be a good child/parent, not cause trouble, strive to please you in every way, and in return you will be a good child/parent." Unfortunately, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT THE CONTRACT. So the other parties does not honor it, and that causes even more stress in hour life.
 
Couldn't have said it better Brookswood. It's not fair to the 'kids' who don't keep in touch or don't want to spend time with aging parents, to always blame them for that absence. It takes two to tango even in the parent/child relationship.
 

Tough predicament to be in. Sometimes parents are responsible for strained relations with their adult offspring, just as often they aren't. Usually society tends to blame the parents. Double whammy.
 
In my experience it's more usual that society casts shame at the 'children who never visit' when it's an old person. Oh poor Gertrude her kids never visit, poor Andy he's all alone even though he's got kids, they never come and visit him, etc. In the case of my mom and I, well oil and water. What else can I say.

On the other hand, shame is usually cast at the parents when their younger kids get in trouble and the refrain in that instance being 'what kind of rotten parents did that one have, really taught THAT one manners didn't they?, etc....'.
 
Debby said:
In my experience it's more usual that society casts shame at the 'children who never visit' when it's an old person. Oh poor Gertrude her kids never visit, poor Andy he's all alone even though he's got kids, they never come and visit him, etc. In the case of my mom and I, well oil and water. What else can I say.

On the other hand, shame is usually cast at the parents when their younger kids get in trouble and the refrain in that instance being 'what kind of rotten parents did that one have, really taught THAT one manners didn't they?, etc....'.
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Hmmm. I guess we have different experiences around this one Debby.
 
This is a very tough subject, lots of baggage on both sides. IMO you should do everything you can to stay above the fray, keep in contact and assist aging parents. Parents are people and all people are flawed in some way, accept that fact and do the best you can. The knowledge that you did your best, where your parents are concerned, will give you great comfort in later years.
 
My daughter has spent the last 10 years nursing a grudge and won't have anything to do with her brother. It's like having two separate families, and it's neither fun nor comfortable. My granny flat is attached to daughter's house, and I live a miserable 30-mile drive on two very busy interstates from my son.

I hate it, and there's not a thing in the world I can do about it. Can't afford to move into a place that's really my own. Believe me, I would if I could. Better yet, I'd move back to my home town in Michigan. If wishes were horses, my first wish would be to not have had kids...:(
 
GeorgiaXplant said:
My daughter has spent the last 10 years nursing a grudge and won't have anything to do with her brother. It's like having two separate families, and it's neither fun nor comfortable. My granny flat is attached to daughter's house, and I live a miserable 30-mile drive on two very busy interstates from my son.

I hate it, and there's not a thing in the world I can do about it. Can't afford to move into a place that's really my own. Believe me, I would if I could. Better yet, I'd move back to my home town in Michigan. If wishes were horses, my first wish would be to not have had kids...:(
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That's both sad and very unfortunate, Georgia. They are being unfair to you too, it must be very hurtful. Grudges and estrangements tear families apart. It proves nothing, no one wins and it often affects children and other innocent family members. I really hope someday they will both realize how much it is hurting you before the grudge turns into regrets.
 
It's not my son who has a problem. It's my daughter; she has blocked his phone and email. She is blind to the hurt it causes me (and him) or maybe she just doesn't give a rat's rear. Who knows? She's so wrapped up in her kids that nothing else is of much importance to her.

Done whining.
 
It takes a lot of time sometimes. I still get nightmares where I'm naked and the older girls are trying to take every scrap I own. There's a lot of meaning there. But after close to a decade of sobbing my heart out for them I've come to accept the estrangement enough to live with it. An innocent question that can leave you reeling early on..." Oh and how many children do you have?".

Let's see the eldest is 34, then 26,23, 21, and fifteen. Then lets move the conversation to my perfect grandbaby...
 
GeorgiaXplant said:
It's not my son who has a problem. It's my daughter; she has blocked his phone and email. She is blind to the hurt it causes me (and him) or maybe she just doesn't give a rat's rear. Who knows? She's so wrapped up in her kids that nothing else is of much importance to her.

Done whining.
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I'm sure sorry to hear that you're in such a tough spot Georgia. It's an unfortunate fact of life that we 'need' family and yet they can be the biggest source of pain. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have kids either but not for the same reasons as you. I hate continuing to worry that their lives are difficult, scary, that they might be hurt by life events.......
 
I'm pretty much in the same boat. Daughter I chose to have no further contact with, because she would phone anytime, day or night and abuse me. She was either drunk, or drug affected at the time. I had to call the police to have her stopped.

Last time I saw my son, in February, we had a disagreement regarding phone calls, of all things. Why I didn't phone him frequently enough. He gets his free, I have to pay for mine.

He walked out the door, and as he was going, he said I had no family left now.

We have had no contact since then.

At first, I was truly upset, but soon realised that I was better off emotionally.

I wasn't being lectured, told that I was doing things wrong during each phone call. I wasn't being told that I had been a dreadful mother, that I could have done better.

If I could have my time over again, I certainly would not have had children.
 
Family can be the biggest pain in the butt sometimes can't they? I'm sure sorry that your kids are difficult grannyjo and hope that you have friendships that make up for their 'absence'.

My husbands mother was like your daughter and she would do the same kind of thing to her other son and his wife. Nasty, nasty phone calls. She got banned too. I guess that's something that is required with some people yeah? You have to decide if you want that kind of toxicity in your life.
 
My oldest girl? Her birthday was some few weeks ago. I tried last year to connect again through FaceBook. Maybe you're a bit older? A bit wiser? Nahh, her aunt is her "real" maternal figure? Okay baby, I gave you life...you figure it out on your own beeyatch. I surrender...really you have to reach that point or they eat you alive. When I die my niece has my Grandmothers earrings, daughter in law has my mother's anniversary band. Nothing of value left...go the %^&$ away.
 
Warrigal started this thread with these lines:
"This seems to be a growing problem. I have known several women who have become estranged from their daughters and it is a source of deep sadness."

I am effectively totally estranged from my daughter, having not seen her at all for eight years and then she brought her husband and her six month old son to see my father, so the little boys great granddad. After some discussion, where my daughter's husband encouraged my daughter to allow me to be present, I did see her for an hour or so. There has been no further visits to my home, and I am not permitted to know where she lives, other than the name of the town, with the exception of a couple of text messages which came to an abrupt end, and then she attended her grandfather's funeral in June, and chose to sit next to me in church, and was very pleasant and behaved as though there had never been any estrangement between us (though no hugs or demonstrations of affection you understand :D).

So, I think this is a very important topic, and I agree with all those saying something similar on the thread obviously, and I feel for all those affected in some way. When religion mattered we used to say "Honour thy father and thy mother......." in a prayer didn't we, but I guess so few children will be having that thought instilled in them now (apparently my ex.'s new husband was described as my daughter's "real dad" whilst I was demoted to "biological father" - however, now my ex. has left him, who she had two more daughters with, I am not sure the status he is granted in my child's family or whether he has become described as a "biological dad" to his own children?).

Those who have said on the thread that maybe there are reasons why children disown parents are of course right, but I would suggest that a lack of heart is often being shown or lack of compassion. My own child must be tough to do the job she does, and emotionally she is strong and she has her own priorities - I was told by a former brother in law I remain in contact with that the reason my daughter did not choose to try to see her granddad during the last eighteen months of his life "because as a doctor she couldn't get herself involved" or some such thinking. That's a bit hard on her part if it is indeed true.

I have no doubt the person who used to tell my daughter that "she knew everything my daughter was thinking, and what she would do before she did it" will be getting very different treatment - and I will leave you to guess who that might be :rolleyes:
 
I'am ,it woulld seem am very lucky///My daughter in law is a shrink so she chooses to talk thing out an get along. Every Wed I spend 3 to 4 hours wiht my G/daughter.
They have never used her against me ...we get together atleast 2 maybe 3 times a week on the wkends....Alexandra an I have so much fun on Wed....we olay whatever
SHE wants an enjoy h=just being together.....I'am so happy with our realationships....an more G/parents should have this conection. I'am blessed. My Mom an I lived
together for the last 23 years of her life an I would NOT have chg that for anything...she was so great an took care of us kids up until the day she dies....I was so lucky an
I still miss her to this day...She died on her 99th birthday an it was such a sad day for me an always will be.
 
But we're blessed for sites like this one and Estranged Stories too. Before the internet we would have thought we were the only ones. I for one know I shouldn't have had human kids. Maybe the oldest one several years later but no more. Dogs I understand now. I am the almighty food giver person. Make me happy and treats and tushy rubs will rain from the sky.

Make me unhappy and I will scrunch up my face and curse like Joe Pesci. You don't want to even imagine what could happen there...no you really don't. My dogs will stand on their heads if I say it the right way. Human kids I just didn't know.
 
grahamg said:
Warrigal started this thread with these lines:
"This seems to be a growing problem. I have known several women who have become estranged from their daughters and it is a source of deep sadness."

I am effectively totally estranged from my daughter, having not seen her at all for eight years and then she brought her husband and her six month old son to see my father, so the little boys great granddad. After some discussion, where my daughter's husband encouraged my daughter to allow me to be present, I did see her for an hour or so. There has been no further visits to my home, and I am not permitted to know where she lives, other than the name of the town, with the exception of a couple of text messages which came to an abrupt end, and then she attended her grandfather's funeral in June, and chose to sit next to me in church, and was very pleasant and behaved as though there had never been any estrangement between us (though no hugs or demonstrations of affection you understand :D).

So, I think this is a very important topic, and I agree with all those saying something similar on the thread obviously, and I feel for all those affected in some way. When religion mattered we used to say "Honour thy father and thy mother......." in a prayer didn't we, but I guess so few children will be having that thought instilled in them now (apparently my ex.'s new husband was described as my daughter's "real dad" whilst I was demoted to "biological father" - however, now my ex. has left him, who she had two more daughters with, I am not sure the status he is granted in my child's family or whether he has become described as a "biological dad" to his own children?).

Those who have said on the thread that maybe there are reasons why children disown parents are of course right, but I would suggest that a lack of heart is often being shown or lack of compassion. My own child must be tough to do the job she does, and emotionally she is strong and she has her own priorities - I was told by a former brother in law I remain in contact with that the reason my daughter did not choose to try to see her granddad during the last eighteen months of his life "because as a doctor she couldn't get herself involved" or some such thinking. That's a bit hard on her part if it is indeed true.

I have no doubt the person who used to tell my daughter that "she knew everything my daughter was thinking, and what she would do before she did it" will be getting very different treatment - and I will leave you to guess who that might be :rolleyes:
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I'm ever the cynic and to be honest, trust people very little, so I would say that the excuse about your daughter not getting involved with her grandad because 'as a doctor she couldn't get herself involved' sounds like a bit of a crock. From what you've said graham, your daughter sounds like she's just not very interested in anyone who isn't useful to her. But you know, in all honesty, it's not fair to hold stuff like that against people. We all just can't help ourselves. We all have fears and phobias and we're all wired differently and in the final analysis, we're all just trying to get through this life.

And being related to someone means absolutely nothing. Remember, we chose our friends but family is what we're stuck with. The hard thing is that when we get old, we are too often forced to rely on family and in an uncomfortable situation like the one you describe, I don't know what the answer is.

I wonder sometimes what lone seniors do in those last years/months when trying to organize care for themselves when there is no family to step in? Does anybody know? Do you approach Social Services or something to be the stand in and how much good can that do considering that you continually hear about monstrous case loads.
 
It has been my experience that nothing is done until they experience an "event" that lands them in the hospital. If they have a little money then usually a relative turns up and takes over their affairs. If they are essentially broke then a social worker is assigned and they get sent to the least desirable nursing home available because they do not have an advocate to protest the placement. When I get to that point please call one of Kevorkian's disciples and send me on my way!
 
Thanks for the response

Debby said:
I'm ever the cynic and to be honest, trust people very little, so I would say that the excuse about your daughter not getting involved with her grandad because 'as a doctor she couldn't get herself involved' sounds like a bit of a crock. From what you've said graham, your daughter sounds like she's just not very interested in anyone who isn't useful to her. But you know, in all honesty, it's not fair to hold stuff like that against people. We all just can't help ourselves. We all have fears and phobias and we're all wired differently and in the final analysis, we're all just trying to get through this life.

And being related to someone means absolutely nothing. Remember, we chose our friends but family is what we're stuck with. The hard thing is that when we get old, we are too often forced to rely on family and in an uncomfortable situation like the one you describe, I don't know what the answer is.

I wonder sometimes what lone seniors do in those last years/months when trying to organize care for themselves when there is no family to step in? Does anybody know? Do you approach Social Services or something to be the stand in and how much good can that do considering that you continually hear about monstrous case loads.
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Dear Debby,
thank you for the response to my post.

I cannot argue really with anything you've said inspite of my trying to avoid too much cynicism generally, and I would like to think family matters more than you've stated viz a viz friends but some extremely unpleasant events regarding three of my own sisters (out of five sisters, so not all of them thankfully) means I now feel more like you do than was previously the case. My large, extended family, cousins, uncles and so on remain a great asset to me though.

I teased forum members with this last line concerning an "important person" in my daughter's life:
"I have no doubt the person who used to tell my daughter that "she knew everything my daughter was thinking, and what she would do before she did it" will be getting very different treatment - and I will leave you to guess who that might be :rolleyes: "

As no one has ventured a guess I will tell you it is my ex. - my daughter's mother (if it wasn't so obvious no one bothered to respond). My ex. was a good mother to our child, and the better parent to be quite honest (our child told me how caring she was too, if I needed telling). However, like all those who wish to be "the best ever parent" if we agree for now that was her aim, it can go too far can't it, and into an area where "mind control" of the child takes over, similar to some aspects of our religions. That is where I remember hearing something along the lines of "knowing what you think and what you will do before you do it" - that is said to be what God does according to my religious education teachers I think it was, and I think I've heard it said in church too, many times (though the old mind isn't what it was when I was confirmed in the church at 13/14 yrs of age). My ex. by the way, is very anti religion, and said I was being cruel taking our child to church "against her wishes." Hence her own parents, who sent her to Sunday school were equally cruel, you'd have to assume even though my ex. enjoyed an extremely close relationship with her father, (something that made her mother "jealous" possibly, or at least my ex.'s mother said after her husband died aged fifty that he had spoilt my ex.).

I am aware my argument there is getting a bit too convoluted, so I will leave it and thank you again for your interest and I hope I haven't taken the thread too much off topic.
 
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grahamg said:
Dear Debby,
thank you for the response to my post.

I cannot argue really with anything you've said inspite of my trying to avoid too much cynicism generally, and I would like to think family matters more than you've stated viz a viz friends but some extremely unpleasant events regarding three of my own sisters (out of five sisters, so not all of them thankfully) means I now feel more like you do than was previously the case. My large, extended family, cousins, uncles and so on remain a great asset to me though.

I teased forum members with this last line concerning an "important person" in my daughter's life:
"I have no doubt the person who used to tell my daughter that "she knew everything my daughter was thinking, and what she would do before she did it" will be getting very different treatment - and I will leave you to guess who that might be :rolleyes: "

As no one has ventured a guess I will tell you it is my ex. - my daughter's mother (if it wasn't so obvious no one bothered to respond). My ex. was a good mother to our child, and the better parent to be quite honest (our child told me how caring she was too, if I needed telling). However, like all those who wish to be "the best ever parent" if we agree for now that was her aim, it can go too far can't it, and into an area where "mind control" of the child takes over, similar to some aspects of our religions. That is where I remember hearing something along the lines of "knowing what you think and what you will do before you do it" - that is said to be what God does according to my religious education teachers I think it was, and I think I've heard it said in church too, many times (though the old mind isn't what it was when I was confirmed in the church at 13/14 yrs of age). My ex. by the way, is very anti religion, and said I was being cruel taking our child to church "against her wishes." Hence her own parents, who sent her to Sunday school were equally cruel, you'd have to assume even though my ex. enjoyed an extremely close relationship with her father, (something that made her mother "jealous" possibly, or at least my ex.'s mother said after her husband died aged fifty that he had spoilt my ex.).

I am aware my argument there is getting a bit too convoluted, so I will leave it and thank you again for your interest and I hope I haven't taken the thread too much off topic.
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Hey, Grahamg -- doesn't seem off-topic to me. I think it is very sad that many families no longer feel obligated to step in and help older relatives, especially when there's no money involved. I remember my grandparents and parents and aunts and uncles always felt that family ties trumped just about everything else (unless maybe you were a serial killer) and they felt it was a family duty to help the others. Of course, that was before the days of so many fragmented families and people moving away all over the country and getting divorced and remarried right and left. I think my grandparents and great-grandparents (and to some extent my parents) were the last generations to value and nurture cohesive multi-generational extensive family. Sad, really that we've lost that.
 
Aunt Bea said:
It has been my experience that nothing is done until they experience an "event" that lands them in the hospital. If they have a little money then usually a relative turns up and takes over their affairs. If they are essentially broke then a social worker is assigned and they get sent to the least desirable nursing home available because they do not have an advocate to protest the placement. When I get to that point please call one of Kevorkian's disciples and send me on my way!
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As I read your probably very accurate comment, I'm feeling very sad for people in that position. Yucch is all I can say.

Do you think that all of what you've said here would be helped if (you had enough money of course) you made a point of registering at a residence well in advance of needing it, and then when you got to the top of the list, just turned it down a few times as you felt able too? I've thought of doing that in the event that my husband dies first and that way avoiding getting stuck somewhere just because thats all that's open.
 
Butterfly said:
Hey, Grahamg -- doesn't seem off-topic to me. I think it is very sad that many families no longer feel obligated to step in and help older relatives, especially when there's no money involved. I remember my grandparents and parents and aunts and uncles always felt that family ties trumped just about everything else (unless maybe you were a serial killer) and they felt it was a family duty to help the others. Of course, that was before the days of so many fragmented families and people moving away all over the country and getting divorced and remarried right and left. I think my grandparents and great-grandparents (and to some extent my parents) were the last generations to value and nurture cohesive multi-generational extensive family. Sad, really that we've lost that.
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I think that many families still do the 'obligatory care of the aging parents', we just don't hear about them much. Most of them don't talk about it maybe. I'm doing the 'obligatory' thing. I'll be moving back across the country next summer because my mom is turning 81 in December. Her and I are like oil and water, always have been, but she's my mom and I'll learn to bite my tongue and smile and nod.

But sometimes doing the obligatory thing is so hard it's almost impossible. My husbands mother was an alcoholic and his brother lived in the same city and she telephoned constantly when deep in her cups and vented her spleen as they say, on Bob and his wife. She was a horror story in motion that way. He used to wish he was an orphan and when she had a stroke and couldn't communicate anymore and got sent to a residence for her last year and a half, he was grateful. How we end up in our last days is a complex issue and I'm sure there were people who worked at my MIL's hospital who felt bad for Grace that no one came to see her regularly, but they didn't know the woman who came before that stroke victim senior. Sometimes there are legitimate reasons why no one shows up. Maybe they killed the love.

I think one thing you said Butterfly has a lot of importance, and that's that people move now whereas in the olden days:), stayed in the same city, town or village, people stayed and often from birth to death. Times have certainly changed.
 
Debby said:
As I read your probably very accurate comment, I'm feeling very sad for people in that position. Yucch is all I can say.

Do you think that all of what you've said here would be helped if (you had enough money of course) you made a point of registering at a residence well in advance of needing it, and then when you got to the top of the list, just turned it down a few times as you felt able too? I've thought of doing that in the event that my husband dies first and that way avoiding getting stuck somewhere just because thats all that's open.
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I don't know how it works in Canada but my experience in the United States is that when the need for a facility comes up you are handed a list of the local nursing homes and asked to pick three, a hospital social worker checks availability and tries to get you into the facility of your choice. If you demonstrate an ability to pay on your own it definitely helps. Once in the facility if your money runs out the facilities that accept medicaid will allow you to stay, often times requiring you to move to a shared room, and if they don't accept medicaid you are handed a list of facilities that do and you pick three again, the social worker checks to see if they have room, if they don't you take what is available.
 

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