What's With All This Sexual Harassment Stuff Going On?

BobF said:
And you still have not really faced the issues at all. If no charges can be made then they did not happen. Period. It is not boys out of control anymore than girls out of control. All of this hateful evil men nonsense should end. Get the ladies to bring charges and then you will be able to say who is wrong and why. Till then there is no bad men to be afraid of. I consider following today's fashions to be bad for the ladies if those fashions lead to unwanted harassment. Maybe a bit of conservatism might help those easy to offend ladies.

I hope this is just about the end of the press making such big deals out of nothing and we get back into fairness for all. That would be a real experience for many of us in the US.

Your comments about the judges would likely be true if they are mostly of the liberal thinking types. We need more and better judges than what we have in some of our courts.
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You live in a very strange world, Bob. You probably think Bill Cosby is a nice guy, too.
 
Butterfly said:
You live in a very strange world, Bob. You probably think Bill Cosby is a nice guy, too.
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It all comes down to provable charges. Destroying political lives or men's careers with no proofs at all is criminal in itself. We do have a legal system in the US and it should be used. No reason those younger women can not be trained to call the police and end this unfounded search for guilty. If folks do not like the judges on the bench then work to get new judges elected or anointed. Stand by what is right by our Constitution and legal system. No need for all this unproven nonsense.
 

Smiling Jane said:
How unusual. An enabling male has decided to dominate the thread. Welcome to the world of male domination, BobF.
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Since when has wanting to use our forces, police and judges and honesty, been determined to be dominating the thread. Nobody, young or old need to put up with all this sexual nonsense and the way to stop it is to bring in the authorities and end all this false accusations. It is truth and facts and not lies and false accusations that will fix the problem.
 
Bobf, with due respect, you have never had to face this problem personally. I'm assuming that as a boy you were not molested and that you yourself are not a sexual predator. However, I truly doubt that the females in your family have all gotten off scot free.

I have not had any psychologically scarring experiences either but my intellectually disabled grand daughter has. There are plenty of opportunistic men, sometimes as in my GD's case, assisted by a female partner, who take advantage of vulnerability of young women. When the man is in a position of power over the young women, e.g. a Hollywood producer, some of them behave as if the woman is theirs for the taking. And not just young women either. It is less common but young men are preyed on too.

In my GD's case, her mother took her to the police who advised that the chance of obtaining a conviction was very low. They did visit the perp's house and questioned both people. The police were satisfied that a crime had been committed but lack of evidence was the problem.
 
Warrigal said:
Bobf, with due respect, you have never had to face this problem personally. I'm assuming that as a boy you were not molested and that you yourself are not a sexual predator. However, I truly doubt that the females in your family have all gotten off scot free.

I have not had any psychologically scarring experiences either but my intellectually disabled grand daughter has. There are plenty of opportunistic men, sometimes as in my GD's case, assisted by a female partner, who take advantage of vulnerability of young women. When the man is in a position of power over the young women, e.g. a Hollywood producer, some of them behave as is the woman is theirs for the taking. And not just young women either. It is less common but young men are preyed on too.
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And another word that applies: entitlement.
 
1971 - I worked in Personnel (before "HR") in a very large corporation. "Jokes" such a the following were common, experially when walking from the office thru the factory (to get to the cafeteria):

Knock-knock
Me: Who's there?
Emerson
Me: Emerson who?
Emersome nice boobs ya got. :rolleyes:

1973: Worked at an architectural firm. Some of the men had nude female calendars on walls of their cubicles.

"Hey, AC. If I told you that you had a great body would you hold it against me?" :rolleyes:

1977 - went to work for state govt....the atmosphere changed. There might have been sexual comments, but I didn't hear about it.

1991 - The Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill hearings. Things change a lot, but maybe people were just more careful.


OTOH, I also remember this case. An executive was fired for retelling a racy Seinfeld scene. He sued and won $26M.

http://articles.latimes.com/1997/jul/16/business/fi-13074
 
Warrigal said:
Bobf, with due respect, you have never had to face this problem personally. I'm assuming that as a boy you were not molested and that you yourself are not a sexual predator. However, I truly doubt that the females in your family have all gotten off scot free.

I have not had any psychologically scarring experiences either but my intellectually disabled grand daughter has. There are plenty of opportunistic men, sometimes as in my GD's case, assisted by a female partner, who take advantage of vulnerability of young women. When the man is in a position of power over the young women, e.g. a Hollywood producer, some of them behave as if the woman is theirs for the taking. And not just young women either. It is less common but young men are preyed on too.

In my GD's case, her mother took her to the police who advised that the chance of obtaining a conviction was very low. They did visit the perp's house and questioned both people. The police were satisfied that a crime had been committed but lack of evidence was the problem.
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One thing I do dislike and I have made my point several times now. Making charges with no evidence is also a wrong thing to do. And that is what I keep posting about. Have no proofs, then hold your hateful tongue and hope the guilty will be caught some day. Destroying a politicians career or by posting things that can not be proven about some one is WRONG. So first make sure you prove what you post and be ready to go to court to help the innocent ones get protection in the future.

For my family I believe all have survived and any that messed with my daughter may now wish he had not. She sure did get some special training while in the service. I have never heard her complain about anyone, male or female, when sex could be the topic. I believe she would make the offenders very sorry for attempting to push her on sex.

With out proofs nothing should change hands publicly. Tell the police as you have done. That is likely to become part of a police record and in future it will add up to evidence of the persons wrong doing.

We do hope that more folks will learn to carry arms for self defense. Similar to the Baptist church shootings, if any carried inside they did not show it but armed neighbor came after the shooter and at least drove him away from the church.

Now the Vegas shooter had all legal guns as they would not shoot at machine gun rates as long as he held the trigger back. They had been set to fire only each time the trigger is pulled. But he knew of a way to trick the gun so that the recoil would push the gun back and the recovery would also pull the trigger and much faster than a person could pull the trigger and have the strength to do so. I am assuming the gun control folks in the Congress will see that those attachments will be declared illegal also.
 
An extremely sharp but narrow and thin blade would work well in the situation. Slide it in between two ribs, and you're free from harassment.

I'm thinking something on the order of a dagger, but maybe a switchblade would be better in terms of convenience.
 
Smiling Jane said:
An extremely sharp but narrow and thin blade would work well in the situation. Slide it in between two ribs, and you're free from harassment.

I'm thinking something on the order of a dagger, but maybe a switchblade would be better in terms of convenience.
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:lol: The worst I ever had to cope with was the eager attentions of a few teenage boys who like to grab girls from behind, pinning our arms to our sides. It was pretty harmless but a stiletto heel was sufficient to discourage any repeats.

As an adult woman I was fortunately never in the position of having an male employer who had any power over me. For casual encounters with lecherous men, which were few, a steely death stare seemed to suffice. BUT I WAS VERY FORTUNATE. Many women has a very different history and as they begin to open up we see another world, a world of humiliation and pain. That world is very real. A lesser number of men know the same pain and humiliation and are now feeling empowered to speak out as well.

Bobf wrote: Have no proofs, then hold your hateful tongue and hope the guilty will be caught some day
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Bobf, this is, in your words, a hateful attitude. A person who is injured but cannot prove who did it to the level of beyond all reasonable doubt is a person for whom there is no available justice. To tell them to "hold their hateful tongue" is at best insensitive and at worst quite cruel.
 
IMO the person with no proof should be encouraged to come forward and report situations where they felt threatened or uncomfortable. Coming forward in those situations may not and probably should not result in any sort of disciplinary action towards the accused but it does document a potential problem with that individual. It also gives the management of a company the opportunity get a feel for the size of the problem in their organization and do some additional training on the topic.
 
BobF said:
Since when has wanting to use our forces, police and judges and honesty, been determined to be dominating the thread. Nobody, young or old need to put up with all this sexual nonsense and the way to stop it is to bring in the authorities and end all this false accusations. It is truth and facts and not lies and false accusations that will fix the problem.
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So we should just silence those accusers who were afraid to speak out earlier? Clearly, you have absolutely no idea of the social and other forces that existed to keep women quiet in the past. Powerful male harrassers could jeopardize your job, your career, your reputation and even your personal safety. And the authorities tended to trivialize the accusations, just like you are doing. "There, there, dear, that man didn't put his hand up your skirt on purpose -- it was an accident or you imagined it or you are making it up. A man like Mr. Big would never do such a thing." And the said Mr. Big would come along and say you were just saying these things and you were a slut anyway. And you'd go back to work and find a pink slip on your desk and soon find out that no one in town would hire a slut that had made such terrible accusations against such a good and philanthropic family man. And Mr. Big and his enablers would go out to some bar and drink a buncha scotch and laugh about it all.

And as to your preoccupation with the way women dress -- we are not complaining about someone saying we look nice today; it is crude comments and innuendo we are speaking of. Should we all adopt the burka as a way of dressing just so men don't have to learn any manners or how to be respectful of women?
 
Warrigal said:
:lol: The worst I ever had to cope with was the eager attentions of a few teenage boys who like to grab girls from behind, pinning our arms to our sides. It was pretty harmless but a stiletto heel was sufficient to discourage any repeats.

As an adult woman I was fortunately never in the position of having an male employer who had any power over me. For casual encounters with lecherous men, which were few, a steely death stare seemed to suffice. BUT I WAS VERY FORTUNATE. Many women has a very different history and as they begin to open up we see another world, a world of humiliation and pain. That world is very real. A lesser number of men know the same pain and humiliation and are now feeling empowered to speak out as well.



Bobf, this is, in your words, a hateful attitude. A person who is injured but cannot prove who did it to the level of beyond all reasonable doubt is a person for whom there is no available justice. To tell them to "hold their hateful tongue" is at best insensitive and at worst quite cruel.
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Hateful attitude? I agree Warri, what was he thinking?:confused:
 
Butterfly said:
So we should just silence those accusers who were afraid to speak out earlier? Clearly, you have absolutely no idea of the social and other forces that existed to keep women quiet in the past. Powerful male harrassers could jeopardize your job, your career, your reputation and even your personal safety. And the authorities tended to trivialize the accusations, just like you are doing. "There, there, dear, that man didn't put his hand up your skirt on purpose -- it was an accident or you imagined it or you are making it up. A man like Mr. Big would never do such a thing." And the said Mr. Big would come along and say you were just saying these things and you were a slut anyway. And you'd go back to work and find a pink slip on your desk and soon find out that no one in town would hire a slut that had made such terrible accusations against such a good and philanthropic family man. And Mr. Big and his enablers would go out to some bar and drink a buncha scotch and laugh about it all.

And as to your preoccupation with the way women dress -- we are not complaining about someone saying we look nice today; it is crude comments and innuendo we are speaking of. Should we all adopt the burka as a way of dressing just so men don't have to learn any manners or how to be respectful of women?
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But it's not only a 'past' issue- as a lot of the negativity here and other forum should show, it can make speaking up 'these days' difficult, too...
 
Aunt Bea said:
IMO the person with no proof should be encouraged to come forward and report situations where they felt threatened or uncomfortable. Coming forward in those situations may not and probably should not result in any sort of disciplinary action towards the accused but it does document a potential problem with that individual. It also gives the management of a company the opportunity get a feel for the size of the problem in their organization and do some additional training on the topic.
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Any my question is that what exactly kind of proof would a person have that she/he had been groped? Or grabbed, or sexually threatened? Or even raped if the abuser uses a condom and or says the whole thing was consensual and the woman just has morning-after remorse? It's not like these acts are committed out in public. Or should a woman have to incur physical serious injuries to prove she has been mistreated?

In the case of Weinstein, for instance, 60 (SIXTY) women have come forward. That's enough for me to be pretty damned sure something has gone on, whether each individual woman has incontrovertible proof or not.
 
Again, a number of posters twisting what I have posted and attempting to make it seem I am guilty of ignoring the stress and pain of sexual problems. That is not so as what I am protesting is the spreading of unproven claims that can destroy a mans life and future career. Broadcasting unproven and possibly wrong ideas is wrong in itself.

What I have also posted is trying to get the police involved. Get a start on the records for certain ones that seem to be a problem. Let those afraid of being 'used' know that others do care and are wanting all the oppressed to stand up and tell the police, or other authorities, know of the stresses and concerns involved.

Those are good ideas and will lead to ending a persons will over another. A beginning of a truth to prevent future events. Telling lies or repeating others lies as truth is wrong. Hearsay is never considered to be truth.
 
Butterfly said:
Any my question is that what exactly kind of proof would a person have that she/he had been groped? Or grabbed, or sexually threatened? Or even raped if the abuser uses a condom and or says the whole thing was consensual and the woman just has morning-after remorse? It's not like these acts are committed out in public. Or should a woman have to incur physical serious injuries to prove she has been mistreated?

In the case of Weinstein, for instance, 60 (SIXTY) women have come forward. That's enough for me to be pretty damned sure something has gone on, whether each individual woman has incontrovertible proof or not.
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I'm not sure why you feel the need to call me out for my comment but here is a little more information for you. If you have another opinion or point of view on the topic that is fine.

There are three sides to every story and it is not unheard of for a person to claim that they have been groped or molested to make trouble for another person. I do not feel comfortable with taking the word of one person, with no other evidence, to fire a person or ruin their career. If multiple people come forward with the same claims and those claims can be investigated then I feel that some punitive action should be taken against the person. I guess I still believe in the tired old phrase innocent until proven guilty.
 
Warrigal said:
:lol: The worst I ever had to cope with was the eager attentions of a few teenage boys who like to grab girls from behind, pinning our arms to our sides. It was pretty harmless but a stiletto heel was sufficient to discourage any repeats.

As an adult woman I was fortunately never in the position of having an male employer who had any power over me. For casual encounters with lecherous men, which were few, a steely death stare seemed to suffice. BUT I WAS VERY FORTUNATE. Many women has a very different history and as they begin to open up we see another world, a world of humiliation and pain. That world is very real. A lesser number of men know the same pain and humiliation and are now feeling empowered to speak out as well.

Bobf wrote: Have no proofs, then hold your hateful tongue and hope the guilty will be caught some day
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Bobf, this is, in your words, a hateful attitude. A person who is injured but cannot prove who did it to the level of beyond all reasonable doubt is a person for whom there is no available justice. To tell them to "hold their hateful tongue" is at best insensitive and at worst quite cruel.
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You have misquoted my statement as I am saying 'No proofs.' Then hold your comments. Hearsay is never considered to be truth.

At best it is rephrasing possible lies, unproven charges, by another person.

The concerned must be protected by the aware and make sure the police are aware of the concerns. One effort may not be enough but future efforts, if protested to the police, will bring closer looks down on the suspected guilty one.
 

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