Equality for men

Traveler said:
No, I was not thinking of MASH type jobs. I was thinking more along the lines of: anti-aircraft batteries, certain artillery positions, truck drivers, front-line medics etc.

The reason why it needs to be battle field positions is so women can get a real good taste of what men have gone through,
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Silly me.
I thought the primary focus of the armed forces was to defend against an enemy, not to carry out a social experiment in gender equality. Women are useful in the defence forces is all sorts of roles and that situation is expanding over time as warfare moves from hand to hand combat in the trenches to computer aided missile attacks.

However, there is no draft in US, Australia, Canada or the UK so your argument here is moot. As far as I can tell, draft registration is a bureaucratic anachronism that should be discontinued rather than expanded to cover all 18 year olds. When and if ever the draft needs to be resurrected it won't take too long to do the paperwork and if women are required, then so be it. When a national emergency is at hand then we do as we must, whether or not it is fair and just.
 

I think we have pretty well exhausted to topic of mandatory military service for women. So, let's move on.

EQUALITY IN THE FAMILY COURT
This is a topic close to my heart and I am quite passionate about it. Bluntly putting it, men get shafted in family court. If both the woman AND the man want custody of the children, 99% of the time women win custody and child support payments. The man has next to no chance.

Please don't tell me about a man you once heard of who won. The fact that a few men occasionally win does not make up for the thousands of men who lose.

Just once I'd like to see a woman lose her house and children and then be forced to pay through the nose. The day that happens is the day pigs will fly. Hell, I personally know of a case where the husband was forced to pay child support for 3 children who he never fathered.(He even proved it with DNA test results)

True, not every man wants custody. It is even true that some men are not remotely emotionally equipped to raise children on his own. But some men are able and they love their children every bit as much as any woman. If he is able, and he wants custody, then he should have a realistic chance of gaining custody.

In family court, equal rights is a bad joke.
 
Camper6 said:
I'm not a scholar of the Bible but I'm sure you can find references to homosexuals without looking too hard.
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Yes, but most references want them put to death. I do think it is rather silent on lesbians though. And absolutely silent on wedding cakes.
 

Warrigal said:
Silly me.
I thought the primary focus of the armed forces was to defend against an enemy, not to carry out a social experiment in gender equality. Women are useful in the defence forces is all sorts of roles and that situation is expanding over time as warfare moves from hand to hand combat in the trenches to computer aided missile attacks.

However, there is no draft in US, Australia, Canada or the UK so your argument here is moot. As far as I can tell, draft registration is a bureaucratic anachronism that should be discontinued rather than expanded to cover all 18 year olds. When and if ever the draft needs to be resurrected it won't take too long to do the paperwork and if women are required, then so be it. When a national emergency is at hand then we do as we must, whether or not it is fair and just.
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You don't live in America, so your entire argument against mandatory military service for women is not relevant. In The United States all 18 year old men MUST register for the draft or face federal felony charges. The is no such law for women.
 
Camper6 said:
I'm not a scholar of the Bible but I'm sure you can find references to homosexuals without looking too hard.
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It is very easy. Just Google "homosexuality biblical references". This will also lead to some thoughtful scholarly commentaries on the texts that put the words into context. You should explore this issue some time. It is mind expanding, to say the least.
 
Traveler said:
I thought I had been very clear on what I want for men. In case some people overlooked it, I want men and women to be treated exactly the same when it comes time to being called into military service. In other words, for every man drafted and sent into the battle zone, I want to see a woman sent there as well. If 20,000 soldiers are sent into combat, 10,000 of them should be female.
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Absolutely!
 
Warrigal said:
It is very easy. Just Google "homosexuality biblical references". This will also lead to some thoughtful scholarly commentaries on the texts that put the words into context. You should explore this issue some time. It is mind expanding, to say the least.
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I'm not talking about scholarly issued and analysis. I'm talking about the actual words in the Bible.

I'm not going to do any exploring. It doesn't influence my lifestyle one bit.
 
In the U.S., where BOTH the man and the woman want custody, the man is awarded custody in only 17.4% of all cases nation-wide. Out of that number only 24% of women pay any child support.

In cases where the woman wins custody and child support , it is not at all uncommon for the woman to "punish" the man by interfering with his visitation rights.
 
Traveler said:
In the U.S., where BOTH the man and the woman want custody, the man is awarded custody in only 17.4% of all cases nation-wide. Out of that number only 24% of women pay any child support.

In cases where the woman wins custody and child support , it is not at all uncommon for the woman to "punish" the man by interfering with his visitation rights.
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Is that what happened to you?
Quite frankly, I think many women would trade the "privileges" you claim we have for the ones men have enjoyed for centuries
 
Dragonlady said:
Is that what happened to you?
Quite frankly, I think many women would trade the "privileges" you claim we have for the ones men have enjoyed for centuries
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It's -40F here with the windchill factor. There are guys up on the pole restoring power. I wouldn't trade places with them if I were you or me.

What privileges are you talking about.? Give me an example.
 
I think in some of these divorce cases the woman doesn't necessarily want to "screw" her spouse. When lawyers get involved along with in laws and friends sometimes it gets out of control.
I've seen cases when the man says "do whatever you think is best.".He feels he can trust her or maybe guilt on his part prevents him from making wise decisions. His wife may be trustworthy but again outside influences, emotion, etc are involved.
I'm seeing commercials for lawyers soliciting for men who are in these situations. There is some advice given as well as sympathy for the husband and father's side.
Divorce especially with children involved is rough. People make stupid decisions based on jealousy and anger.
Yes I think the courts swing more to the wife's side and yes I think it needs to be looked at by the courts.
 
Camper6 said:
It's -40F here with the windchill factor. There are guys up on the pole restoring power. I wouldn't trade places with them if I were you or me.

What privileges are you talking about.? Give me an example.
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OMG! Are you really that out of touch with the culture you live in? Women still earn less than men doing the same job. They have had to fight to be given jobs in Firefighting, etc. - and they still face serious discrimination in some jobs and there are a number of areas in the military where women are not exactly welcomed with open arms. How many female CEO's are there. The so-called glass ceiling is a real barrier to women in some areas.
Women could not get credit in their own names until the 70's. In the early years of the 1900's husbands automatically got the children in the rare event of divorce. There was no community property. Those are only a few.
There are plenty more of the sites like below if you are really interested. Yes - there are inequities - on both sides. What is being said on some fronts sounds a lot more like someone who wants to turn back the clock and return to the good old days of patriarchy - someone who very much resents the gains that women have gained.


http://www.nwhp.org/resources/womens-rights-movement/detailed-timeline/




 
Dragonlady said:
Is that what happened to you?
Quite frankly, I think many women would trade the "privileges" you claim we have for the ones men have enjoyed for centuries
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There is no "claim" about it. Women have so many privileges that it would take pages to list all of them. Shall we take just one example ?

Young woman, age 23, reasonably attractive, takes pride in her appearance, well groomed and works in some occupation where she interacts with the public. 1st, she has many men flirting with her. In that manner she gets to "pick and choose". 2nd, she is asked out for a date and she accepts. 3rd, it is a foregone conclusion that HE will pick up the tab for what-ever event they have decided upon. 4th, she knows perfectly well that SHE and SHE alone controls the sexual arena. 5th, she may decide to allow him to kiss her goodnight, then again she may decide, no.

The entire point here is that SHE is in control of the dating situation. Yes, he might "ask", he might "try" but SHE is the one to allow or not allow. You doubt that ? Compare the 2 following sentences and see which one is the most realistic. She is talking with her GF and she says, "He was so sweet all night long that I let him kiss me". Nothing remotely odd about that is there ? Now lets look at the next sentence. He is talking to his buddy and he says, "She was so much fun that I let her kiss me". If you overheard the 2nd sentence you most certainly would think. "Wow, what an arrogant jerk. Who does he think he is".

That, my friends, is one hell of a great series of privileges.
 
Dragonlady said:
OMG! Are you really that out of touch with the culture you live in? Women still earn less than men doing the same job. They have had to fight to be given jobs in Firefighting, etc. - and they still face serious discrimination in some jobs and there are a number of areas in the military where women are not exactly welcomed with open arms. How many female CEO's are there. The so-called glass ceiling is a real barrier to women in some areas.
Women could not get credit in their own names until the 70's. In the early years of the 1900's husbands automatically got the children in the rare event of divorce. There was no community property. Those are only a few.
There are plenty more of the sites like below if you are really interested. Yes - there are inequities - on both sides. What is being said on some fronts sounds a lot more like someone who wants to turn back the clock and return to the good old days of patriarchy - someone who very much resents the gains that women have gained.

http://www.nwhp.org/resources/womens-rights-movement/detailed-timeline
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The so-called privileges you claim men have are often paid for in blood. Literally ! If you compare the death rates, on the job, men die so often, compared to women dying on the job, that women barely even register on the scale.

No one gives anything for free. It must be paid for. Often in heavy coin.
 
Dragonlady said:
OMG! Are you really that out of touch with the culture you live in? Women still earn less than men doing the same job. They have had to fight to be given jobs in Firefighting, etc. - and they still face serious discrimination in some jobs and there are a number of areas in the military where women are not exactly welcomed with open arms. How many female CEO's are there. The so-called glass ceiling is a real barrier to women in some areas.
Women could not get credit in their own names until the 70's. In the early years of the 1900's husbands automatically got the children in the rare event of divorce. There was no community property. Those are only a few.
There are plenty more of the sites like below if you are really interested. Yes - there are inequities - on both sides. What is being said on some fronts sounds a lot more like someone who wants to turn back the clock and return to the good old days of patriarchy - someone who very much resents the gains that women have gained.


http://www.nwhp.org/resources/womens-rights-movement/detailed-timeline/
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Not where I live. N o gender difference in pay.

You want a line mans wages? Become a linesman.

If the job requires strength any gender that has it can get it.
 
Camper6 said:
I'm not talking about scholarly issued and analysis. I'm talking about the actual words in the Bible.

I'm not going to do any exploring. It doesn't influence my lifestyle one bit.
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Then why get your knickers in a twist when I posted an actual quotation, with the reference, when responding to someone for whom the Bible means a great deal?

By the way, the "actual words" in the Bible were either in Aramaic or ancient Greek. Good luck with those without a commentary.
 
Men will never be equal to women. Give a woman sperm and she will give you a child. Give her a house and she will turn it into a home. Buy groceries and she will make a meal. Give her a smile & she will give you her heart.


She multiples & enlarges whatever you give her.


Understanding that a word of caution. Don't give her any crap, she will return a ton of $hit


Author unknown but a very wise man
 
Knight said:
Men will never be equal to women. Give a woman sperm and she will give you a child. Give her a house and she will turn it into a home. Buy groceries and she will make a meal. Give her a smile & she will give you her heart.

She multiples & enlarges whatever you give her.

Understanding that a word of caution. Don't give her any crap, she will return a ton of $hit.
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Give ME a pile of lumber and I will build my own home.

Let ME do the grocery shopping and I will create a meal fit for a king.

Give ME an empty space and I will create peace and quiet.

Give ME a dog and I'll have unconditional love and a best friend.

Give ME time and I'll travel the globe, AGAIN
 
Give ME a pile of lumber and I will build my own home.
Let ME do the grocery shopping and I will create a meal fit for a king.
Give ME an empty space and I will create peace and quiet.
Give ME a dog and I'll have unconditional love and a best friend.
Give ME time and I'll travel the globe, AGAIN
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:lol: You see to have missed the point of the last line in Knight's post.
Don't be surprised if a pile of manure is on its way to your doorstep right now.
 
Knight said:
Men will never be equal to women. Give a woman sperm and she will give you a child. Give her a house and she will turn it into a home. Buy groceries and she will make a meal. Give her a smile & she will give you her heart.


She multiples & enlarges whatever you give her.


Understanding that a word of caution. Don't give her any crap, she will return a ton of $hit


Author unknown but a very wise man
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This was a good one, Knight....I never was for the Women's movement...Or whatever they were moving....As a Women that was born in the 50's, I never came upon a man that thought
they were better than Women...My Dad was never like that...He treated me like I was an Angel...The only girl with 2 brothers....He loved my Mom...she worked at home, she was a seamstress.
She did well with her customers....She would make me clothes...that looked better than what you can buy in Macy's....We were not rich....My Dad was a House Painter and was in the National
Guard for 40 years....Of course he brought home most of the money, but my mom did well with making dresses for older women and younger women....Even little girl clothes...
What's going on now with the so called "Stars" wearing black!!! I won't even discuss that....I won't get political...When I started working when my kiddies were a little older, I went to work...
I worked mostly part time, cause of kiddies in school and I had to be home when they came home from school...As they got older, I was a Secretary in a High School...I did my 25 years and
retired....I do remember some wise guys, but you know, I didn't give it too much attention...In the 80's the school had a Man be the person who took anything that was bothering a Teacher
or a Secretary....Anyone who maybe said something to a man or women that was in the line of being sexual....It would be stopped immediately....Our School system wouldn't tolerate nasty comments to anyone....I retired in the 90's and received a pension....I guess I'm of older age, but I do have 2 granddaughter's....I've never heard them say anything about the Women's movement...My oldest granddaughter is in her second year of Nursing School and works in a Hospital part time....She never mentioned anything about her job that men being nasty to her...
My younger granddaughter is 14 yrs old in High School, I know she would probably say something nasty if she was insulted by a boy...She is tough!!! and Smart....
So that's my comment about the Women's movement...If you don't like it, I don't care...
 
Traveler said:
Give ME a pile of lumber and I will build my own home.

Let ME do the grocery shopping and I will create a meal fit for a king.

Give ME an empty space and I will create peace and quiet.

Give ME a dog and I'll have unconditional love and a best friend.

Give ME time and I'll travel the globe, AGAIN
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Traveler I hope you find someone who only asks for your love and respect. I hope you're not so tainted you can't enjoy some good old fashioned romance without keeping score.
 
Young woman, age 23, reasonably attractive, takes pride in her appearance, well groomed and works in some occupation where she interacts with the public. 1st, she has many men flirting with her.
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by Traveler
And women don't "flirt"" with attractive men?
In that manner she gets to "pick and choose
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And men who do the asking don't get to "choose". Are men or women obligated to accept every invitation they get?
3rd, it is a foregone conclusion that HE will pick up the tab for what-ever event they have decided upon.
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Actually it's not anymore. The man always paying dates back to when women were not allowed to work out of the home and simply had no income to pay for half the date. That is changing. There are men who are uncomfortable with allowing women to pay half (or all, for that matter) I always offered but was often turned down - and I'm sure there are others who have had the same experience. Are there women who abuse this? sure - just as there are men who abuse it
4th, she knows perfectly well that SHE and SHE alone controls the sexual arena
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Who should "control" the "sexual" arena? are either a man or woman obligated to "put out" on demand? A woman should "control" the sexual "arena" for her body - just as a man should for his.
5th, she may decide to allow him to kiss her goodnight, then again she may decide, no.
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Again, she has the right to decide what happens to her body. She is not obligated to "kiss" anyone she does not wish to - just as a man does not. You seem to be laboring under the very old fashioned idea that a woman owes her date certain sexual favors because he paid for the dinner - or whatever.
You sound like a very bitter angry man who has generalized his anger at a few women to all women. There isn't an individual here who has not probably had an unpleasant experience or relationship with the opposite gender. Your anger may even be somewhat justified, but most of us do get over it and get on with life. You seem to be still be stuck at angry. The sad thing is that you are damaging yourself while those you think did you harm are enjoying life completely oblivious to your feelings. In essence you hurt you more than them.
(All quotes came from Travelers post)
 
Traveler said:
Give ME a pile of lumber and I will build my own home.

Let ME do the grocery shopping and I will create a meal fit for a king.

Give ME an empty space and I will create peace and quiet.

Give ME a dog and I'll have unconditional love and a best friend.

Give ME time and I'll travel the globe, AGAIN
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Been there - done all of the above - and I suspect there are plenty of other women who have done most if not all also.
I'll be glad to elucidate if necessary!
B
 

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