Equality for men

[Smiling Jane]

I find it truly amazing that so many women deny what men across the globe experience everyday. I, naturally, can not even imagine what it feels like to give birth. Likewise no women can possibly imagine what it is to live as a man.

I am still patiently waiting for an answer to my question. Are young women up to the task of defending their country, in the military ?
Are women ready, willing and able to accept responsibilities that go hand-in-hand with equality or do women claim exemption because of gender ?

Did you? So far you haven't answered my question about whether you were drafted.

I would have been willing to serve. I would have had no problem doing so.

Is the rather astounding number of women in the military who have been raped by their male [supposed] peers part of what you consider equality?

 

[Warrigal]

I'm going to leave the last word to the bakers to their inspiration - the Bible

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? [SUP]4 [/SUP]How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? [SUP]5 [/SUP]You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. Matt 7:3-5

Also, if they feel free to treat certain customers as they did the lesbian couple, then they should not complain when they experience discrimination from other individuals keen to act out their particular religious beliefs. Imagine the uproar is a shop refused service to any woman wearing a sleeveless dress or showing a bit of cleavage. What is only bearded men could receive service?

 

[Camper6]

His point was they are not drafted in the U.S. and males are. His point is preferential treatment for females.

Israel is not the United States.

 

[Camper6]

Did you? So far you haven't answered my question about whether you were drafted.

I would have been willing to serve. I would have had no problem doing so.

Is the rather astounding number of women in the military who have been raped by their male [supposed] peers part of what you consider equality?

Lets not go there please. It's not approved by the military.

 

[Camper6]

I'm going to leave the last word to the bakers to their inspiration - the Bible



Also, if they feel free to treat certain customers as they did the lesbian couple, then they should not complain when they experience discrimination from other individuals keen to act out their particular religious beliefs. Imagine the uproar is a shop refused service to any woman wearing a sleeveless dress or showing a bit of cleavage. What is only bearded men could receive service?

Please don't quote the Bible because if you do it would support the baker.

 

[Traveler]

Actually it's close to 30% that out-earn their husbands - I wouldn't call that a "tiny fraction".

There's also an age gap in women's earnings - younger women (20-24 years old) are far more likely (~90%) to have wage equity than older women (55-64), who are only at ~74%.

Source



Perhaps more fathers should make their child support payments. Of course, the poverty-level stats influence this to a large degree.

IMO, women are simply more nurturing and the courts recognize this.



That is of course a two-edged sword. What if a women happened to tell you, "You're the man, you're supposed to be fixing the house" ?

The idea of pre-defined roles based on gender, while perhaps somewhat influenced by physical factors, is a failing paradigm. The newer generations recognize this.

I have been told it is my job, as the man, to fix the house., many times. Once as a newly wed 20 year old, I was trying my best to fix a leaky bathroom sink drain. In all honesty, I had no clue on how to do it. And what did I hear from my wife ? "What kind of a man did I marry? What's wrong with you ?"

 

[Traveler]

Women just cannot admit they are treated preferentially compared to men.

They just can't.

But they are in plenty of aspects.

I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying it exists and has existed for centuries.

I wouldn't want a woman fighting next to me in the military. I would be trying to protect her instead of myself.

it's ingrained in men.

Camper, I totally agree.

 

[Traveler]

Even as a young woman I was in no way fit physically nor mentally for combat-unless protecting the lives of my progeny. That's all I'm wired for in the way of combat.

Women are the vessels for the precious lives of our young; for nurturing them for 18 years or so.

So my opinion is no.

It's not just "gender" it's what the gender does.

Men fight to protect their territories, that's how they are wired, or what their instincts are. They actually somewhat enjoy war, re-enact wars, play war, watch "action movies" about war, glory of war, etc. Fighting is thrilling to them.

If a law was put into place for young women to be drafted as men are and as I think happened in Israel (not sure) I would abide by the law.

As things stand now, I think it's fair that men go and fight the wars. Women get to stay home support the war effort, give birth to and raise the next crop of cannon fodder for the wars men start. I think that's enough.

That's all I have to say. Anything more would be repetition.

Radishrose, while I do not agree with everything you say, I do very much appreciate your honesty and your answer. thank you.

 

[SifuPhil]

I have been told it is my job, as the man, to fix the house., many times. Once as a newly wed 20 year old, I was trying my best to fix a leaky bathroom sink drain. In all honesty, I had no clue on how to do it. And what did I hear from my wife ? "What kind of a man did I marry? What's wrong with you ?"

And do you suppose you were as irritated when you heard that as when your wife heard "Can't you cook? Didn't Mom teach you?"

Not saying you said that, but many housewives do hear it.

 

[Traveler]

The entire point of this thread is calling into question whether one gender should enjoy all the rights of their gender AND the right to pursue all the rights of the opposite gender. That, friends, is called having your cake and eating it too.

There are thousands of examples of women choosing to being treated as a lady one day and then, when it suits them, turning right around and demanding to be treated the same as a man.

Men do not have that option. There are many tasks which fall to men. Our wives and girl friends demand it. Period !

 

[hearlady]

The entire point of this thread is calling into question whether one gender should enjoy all the rights of their gender AND the right to pursue all the rights of the opposite gender. That, friends, is called having your cake and eating it too.

There are thousands of examples of women choosing to being treated as a lady one day and then, when it suits them, turning right around and demanding to be treated the same as a man.

Men do not have that option. There are many tasks which fall to men. Our wives and girl friends demand it. Period !

Yes, and you can pursue any rights of the opposite gender.
BTW, exactly what rights would you like? If it's physically possible you should have them. I have no problem with that.
Maybe you need different wives and girlfriends.

 

[Dragonlady]

Traveler, many of the points in your original post have a degree of validity, but you ignore the role men themselves have played in perpetuating the "inequality" to men. There are many men who actively resist any social change. They want to maintain the status quo of the mid 1900's. Changing gender "roles" is a work-progress that will go on probably for many years and the current population will have a mix of ideas on the subject.
As for the whole military issue. Most military personnel have traditionally been dead set against allowing women into the military at all. Little by little women are changing that. As for the draft, that's almost laughable. There are just as many men , as well as women that would be strongly against it. Probable more. The sexual assault issue is a serious problem that will have to be dealt with before many parents will be positive about having their daughters drafted . Not many parents are going to be too enthusiastic about their daughters being put into an environment where sexual assault is practically a given. Many men already in the military say they feel they are more at risk with a female - especially in the more "Macho" branches.
As for women, there are many women who are quite self sufficient. I changed tires - as well as spark plugs, etc. I did plumbing, woodworking (built and designed my own coffee and end tables, that I am still using). Currently I can afford to pay someone else to do various house repairs and at my age simply don't want to do it any more - but could still do if I had too. I own a firearm and know how to use it (but don't anymore - just killed targets anyway) For safety, I have a big dog. In that area, men are just as guilty for raising their daughters to be "weak and helpless" and all that goes with it - not all of course, but many. The whole cultural system is in a state of flux.
Child custody is also in a state of flux and even the legal system is not all on the same page. Way too many parents are too wrapped up in pursuing vengeance on each other to have their children's best interests at heart. When I divorced my Ex, I refused child support. Being in any way depended on your Ex gives him a means of controlling and manipulating you. As an RN I made an adequate income and had no need of more. Every young girl should be encouraged to get whatever training she needs and/or wants - so she can be self supporting instead of being encouraged to depend on marriage as a means of earning a living

 

[Traveler]

Yes, and you can pursue any rights of the opposite gender.
BTW, exactly what rights would you like? If it's physically possible you should have them. I have no problem with that.
Maybe you need different wives and girlfriends.

I thought I had been very clear on what I want for men. In case some people overlooked it, I want men and women to be treated exactly the same when it comes time to being called into military service. In other words, for every man drafted and sent into the battle zone, I want to see a woman sent there as well. If 20,000 soldiers are sent into combat, 10,000 of them should be female.

 

[Olivia]

Traveler, many of the points in your original post have a degree of validity, but you ignore the role men themselves have played in perpetuating the "inequality" to men. There are many men who actively resist any social change. They want to maintain the status quo of the mid 1900's. Changing gender "roles" is a work-progress that will go on probably for many years and the current population will have a mix of ideas on the subject.
As for the whole military issue. Most military personnel have traditionally been dead set against allowing women into the military at all. Little by little women are changing that. As for the draft, that's almost laughable. There are just as many men , as well as women that would be strongly against it. Probable more. The sexual assault issue is a serious problem that will have to be dealt with before many parents will be positive about having their daughters drafted . Not many parents are going to be too enthusiastic about their daughters being put into an environment where sexual assault is practically a given. Many men already in the military say they feel they are more at risk with a female - especially in the more "Macho" branches.
As for women, there are many women who are quite self sufficient. I changed tires - as well as spark plugs, etc. I did plumbing, woodworking (built and designed my own coffee and end tables, that I am still using). Currently I can afford to pay someone else to do various house repairs and at my age simply don't want to do it any more - but could still do if I had too. I own a firearm and know how to use it (but don't anymore - just killed targets anyway) For safety, I have a big dog. In that area, men are just as guilty for raising their daughters to be "weak and helpless" and all that goes with it - not all of course, but many. The whole cultural system is in a state of flux.
Child custody is also in a state of flux and even the legal system is not all on the same page. Way too many parents are too wrapped up in pursuing vengeance on each other to have their children's best interests at heart. When I divorced my Ex, I refused child support. Being in any way depended on your Ex gives him a means of controlling and manipulating you. As an RN I made an adequate income and had no need of more. Every young girl should be encouraged to get whatever training she needs and/or wants - so she can be self supporting instead of being encouraged to depend on marriage as a means of earning a living

Agree with your assessments.

 

[Olivia]

I thought I had been very clear on what I want for men. In case some people overlooked it, I want men and women to be treated exactly the same when it comes time to being called into military service. In other words, for every man drafted and sent into the battle zone, I want to see a woman sent there as well. If 20,000 soldiers are sent into combat, 10,000 of them should be female.

Traveler, but there is no draft and military service is voluntary, for men as well as for women. Would you really want your children to become possible orphans? If the woman wants to serve, then maybe the man should stay as a civilian with the children--when and if there is a draft.

 

[Aunt Bea]

I thought I had been very clear on what I want for men. In case some people overlooked it, I want men and women to be treated exactly the same when it comes time to being called into military service. In other words, for every man drafted and sent into the battle zone, I want to see a woman sent there as well. If 20,000 soldiers are sent into combat, 10,000 of them should be female.

It seems to me that men are the ones holding up the changes that would allow women equality in combat zones.

My preference would be to maintain a volunteer military open to all United States citizens. I think the combat focus should shift to the use of drones, computers, etc... and minimize the need for boots on the ground. If women are needed in combat zones my preference would be to have female units segregated from male units. I think that a group of well trained, determined young women with a common goal would perform just as well as a group of young men.

 

[Traveler]

Traveler, but there is no draft and military service is voluntary, for men as well as for women. Would you really want your children to become possible orphans? If the woman wants to serve, then maybe the man should stay as a civilian with the children--when and if there is a draft.

I just want women to have to exact same responsibilities, militarily speaking, as men. (When and if there is a draft)

 

[Traveler]

It seems to me that men are the ones holding up the changes that would allow women equality in combat zones.

Aunt Bea, you may very well be right. All I'm doing is planting the seed of a new concept. Call me, Johnny Appleseed.

 

[Olivia]

I just want women to have to exact same responsibilities, militarily speaking, as men. (When and if there is a draft)

I understand what you're saying. If I had a son (or grandson--whatever) I'd want that for him, too. But no one in the military has the same exact responsibilities. But, yes, I get it.

 

[hearlady]

Traveler I admit that seems unfair concerning the draft. There are legitimate reasons why this is so. RadishRose made some excellent points.
I feel this is something that falls under the "life is not fair" category.
We try to make it up in other ways I suppose.

 

[Traveler]

Traveler I admit that seems unfair concerning the draft. There are legitimate reasons why this is so. RadishRose made some excellent points.
I feel this is something that falls under the "life is not fair" category.
We try to make it up in other ways I suppose.

Thank you for that bit of honesty.

P. S. When I said "exact same responsibilities" , I did not necessarily mean the exact same job. When sheer brute strength is a requirement, then naturally the job would fall to men but women could certainly do any number of other battle field jobs. That would be close enough to "equality" to satisfy me.

 

[Olivia]

Thank you for that bit of honesty.

P. S. When I said "exact same responsibilities" , I did not necessarily mean the exact same job. When sheer brute strength is a requirement, then naturally the job would fall to men but women could certainly do any number of other battle field jobs. That would be close enough to "equality" to satisfy me.

You mean like in "Mash"? I'm not sure about the battle field, but there are lots of stuff that men do that is not on the battle field, so I don't see why it has to be that.

But anyway, I like your controversial topics.

 

[Traveler]

You mean like in "Mash"? I'm not sure about the battle field, but there are lots of stuff that men do that is not on the battle field, so I don't see why it has to be that.

But anyway, I like your controversial topics.

No, I was not thinking of MASH type jobs. I was thinking more along the lines of: anti-aircraft batteries, certain artillery positions, truck drivers, front-line medics etc.

The reason why it needs to be battle field positions is so women can get a real good taste of what men have gone through,

I'm glad you enjoy my controversial topics. They seem to really upset some people, but that's ok with me. They are not buying my dinner so I really don't care.

 

[Warrigal]

I'm not a scholar of the Bible but I'm sure you can find references to homosexuals without looking too hard.

Yes, but most references want them put to death. I do think it is rather silent on lesbians though. And absolutely silent on wedding cakes.

Here are a couple

If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Homosexuality is but one of many immoralities that result is death of the soul. Greedy, drunken adulterers are mentioned in the same breath as homosexuals. Apparently female prostitutes as a lesser category? Perhaps not, although Jesus seemed to have sympathy for these women. This quote, however, is not from the teachings of Jesus. This is Paul of Tarsus writing to a city that was rife with all kinds of immorality.

Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

 

[Camper6]

And the verse would be? I don't remember any text that says, "Thou shalt not do business with sinners."

I'm not a scholar of the Bible but I'm sure you can find references to homosexuals without looking too hard.