Worse penality ?

[Traveler]

The death penalty is used by both the Federal government and many of the individual states and is used for what we think of as the ultimate in punishment. But, is it truly the ultimate penalty ?

For all of human history, people have expressed a fear of death. The ancient Egyptians, as many believe, were not obsessed with death, but rather with life. Ancient Egyptians spent a great deal of time, energy and, in the case of the nobles and the wealthy, they spent a great deal of treasure, preparing for the "after-life".

Why go to such trouble ? The answer is quite simple. They feared death and they hoped, believed, that they would "rise again" and live in paradise. Even a superficial look at all of the world's religions will show us that people hope to "live again".
Provided that they would live in paradise.

However fearful death may be, I contend that the death penalty is actually a much lesser punishment than life in prison, confined in a 9 X 7 foot cell and most importantly, never to be allowed in the general prison population. Think about that for a moment. Never again to know a woman, or the sun on your face or to taste fresh air, no freedom to choose what you will eat. No more being surrounded by family or friends. No more walks in nature.

23 hours of every day you would be locked in a claustrophobic tiny cell. Showers only once a week. No more movies or personal computer. No cell phone. And, perhaps worst of all, no freedom to physically move about at will.

Yes, it is true that there may be some sense of satisfaction for the families of the murder victim but wouldn't it be more satisfying for the families to know that for every second of every day, year after endless year, the killer is suffering ?

Most people may not remember Gary Gilmore, but he recognized that life in a tiny cell was much worse than a quick death by firing squad. That is why he refused to allow his attorney's to file any appeal.

All of the above presumes that life in prison meant exactly that. LIFE WITHOUT ANY POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE !

And, there is one more benefit for society. Occasionally, the convict is literally innocent. To put a man to death and ONLY THEN to discover that the executed person was truly innocent is a horrible thought.

What say you ?

 

[James]

I was part of an investigative team that was assigned investigate a horrific murder of a University Student who was kidnapped off of a major highway late one night after her car was sabotaged to "break down".

As it turns out the suspect had quite a past. He was Convicted of two murders back in the early 70's. He overpowered a police officer when he was being arrested, grabbed the officers gun and executed him as well as a witness that had stopped to help the officer.

He was sentenced to hang however that was overturned when Canada abolished the death penalty.

The pos ended up serving 12 years and then was granted partial parole and transferred to a halfway house. It was during his time here that he was able to use his "free time" to plan, execute and snuff out the life of a beautiful person.

So, if this pos would have swung, then a beautiful, brilliant, giving young lady would have gone on to do who knows how many great things for the world.

 

[Traveler]

Yes, James, but I am talking about life with out any possibility of parole.

 

[James]

Sorry, Gotcha....here in Canada life is 25 years max. Unless you are deemed a Habitual Offender (which is rare). Also during those 25 yrs your incarceration level continually tiers downward from Maximum to a Halfway House.

 

[Seeker]

I pick death over confinement, just me... I am claustrophobic so just gettin' me in the back of a police car would actually be the end of me. As soon as they put those handcuffs on me I'd be on my way out. That being said I don't think I'll ever do anything to be put in that position.
I don't do elevators either, stairs.. until I can't go up them anymore.

I also believe that if death was more prevalent today it would stop a lot of their thinkin'.

 

[Big Horn]

Sorry, Gotcha....here in Canada life is 25 years max. Unless you are deemed a Habitual Offender (which is rare). Also during those 25 yrs your incarceration level continually tiers downward from Maximum to a Halfway House.

California, an otherwise liberal state, incarcerates thousands for life without possibility of parole. The prison guards' union in California is rated as one of the most powerful lobbies in the country. It benefits both their members and their leaders to have as many prisoners as possible. Therefore, they support long prison sentences and vigorously resist any changes in the state's policy of life without parole.

It wouldn't be difficult for a government to tacitly encourage unions in Canada or in other American states. The promise of better pay for the rank and files coupled with more power for the leaders works anywhere. The only problem is that it creates a monster, a very expensive monster.

 

[Don M.]

When a person commits a murder, freely admits to it, and there are credible witnesses, and irrefutable evidence, I see no reason to spend $30,000 a year, or more, to keep such a thug alive. Some of these criminals can wind up costing the taxpayers millions of dollars in prison costs and lawyers fee's, etc.,etc. Far better, IMO, to spend that money on honest people who could really use some help. Under our present laws, even the death penalty can cost us millions with all the appeals, and lawyers milking the system....often for decades.

I'm not a fan of Islam...but those people have it right, IMO. The trial is held on Monday, and the execution is scheduled for Tuesday.

 

[Traveler]

California, an otherwise liberal state, incarcerates thousands for life without possibility of parole. The prison guards' union in California is rated as one of the most powerful lobbies in the country. It benefits both their members and their leaders to have as many prisoners as possible. Therefore, they support long prison sentences and vigorously resist any changes in the state's policy of life without parole.

It wouldn't be difficult for a government to tacitly encourage unions in Canada or in other American states. The promise of better pay for the rank and files coupled with more power for the leaders works anywhere. The only problem is that it creates a monster, a very expensive monster.

I totally agree. It seems like we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.

I forget the guys name but there was a prisoner in California, many years ago, who had been convicted of molesting little girls. After a serving aprox 15 years (if memory serves) he was released. Less than 6 months later he kidnapped, raped and tortured a 12 year-old girl, finally murdering her. There are monsters who walk amongst us. What in the world are we to do ?

 

[Sunny]

I think if they just substituted "life without" for the death penalty, it would take care of all of the problems that have been mentioned.
It's a worse punishment than death.

The criminal is permanently unable to do any more harm.

In the abovementioned rare case (or not so rare?), a convicted prisoner can be found to be innocent after all. When DNA testing was started in Texas, a large number of convicts on death row were found to be innocent,
and were released. I wonder, how many innocent men (almost always black men) lost their lives before we had DNA testing?

 

[Sunny]

P.S. The other side of the argument? Well, people seem to have a furious desire for vengeance, especially when a loved one has been killed. Probably the death penalty does provide a finality and a kind of satisfaction
that life without doesn't provide. But I wonder how the families of the victims feel when they find out that the wrong person has been executed?

 

[James]

There have been many wrongful convictions that have been overturned thanks to DNA.

The totality of forensic investigative techniques that weren't available back when these crimes were convicted in addition to other smoking gun evidence, imho now provide the information required for the needle.

Courts now have a much higher standard than they did even 10-20 years ago and the standards in police training for homicides have also risen just as high.

Besides, with the appeal processes executions don't happen over night anyway.

After you have dealt face to face with actual killers you realize that real evil walks amongst us and there is only one solution for that type of evil. That's what the death penalty needs to be reserved for.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[SifuPhil]

Privatization of prisons is huge business. and like most huge businesses they couldn't care less about the prisoners or the victims. They only care about the bottom line.

I would think that executions cut into that bottom line.

 

[Falcon]

Executions are NOT punishment. There are countless ways to punish a perpetrator.

Executing the perp is simply putting him out of his misery.

I've said this on another thread: Water Boarding is probably the WORST (terrifying) feeling one can experience

That disgusting creep who killed all of those little children should be Water Boarded ONCE for EACH one to those

innocent little kids !

 

[KingsX]

.

Western Christian civilization's criminal and civil laws were originally based on Bible law. Bible law mandates the death penalty for many crimes, including murder.

Many states still have a death penalty for murder. But too many murderers are given plea bargains and reduced sentences even in those states.

The result of eliminating or bypassing the death penalty is this... many convicted murderers are set free to continue to prey upon society.

 

[IKE]

When a person commits a murder, freely admits to it, and there are credible witnesses, and irrefutable evidence, I see no reason to spend $30,000 a year, or more, to keep such a thug alive. Some of these criminals can wind up costing the taxpayers millions of dollars in prison costs and lawyers fee's, etc.,etc. Under our present laws, even the death penalty can cost us millions with all the appeals, and lawyers milking the system....often for decades.


I agree

 

[KingsX]

.


Western Christian civilization's criminal and civil laws were originally based on Bible law. Bible law mandates the death penalty for many crimes, including murder.

Many states still have a death penalty for murder. But too many murderers are given plea bargains and reduced sentences even in those states.

The result of eliminating or bypassing the death penalty is this... many convicted murderers are set free to continue to prey upon society.

Privatization of prisons is huge business. and like most huge businesses they couldn't care less about the prisoners or the victims. They only care about the bottom line.

I would think that executions cut into that bottom line.

The irony is... in Bible law, there are no prison punishments.

.

 

[James]

Like my Grandpa always said;

"Some people are born to be hung".

 

[IKE]

Like my Grandpa always said;

"Some people are born to be hung".

Your Grandpa was a very wise man.

 

[Traveler]

Like my Grandpa always said;

"Some people are born to be hung".

Sorry to disagree with you, but I absolutely do not believe in the "bad seed".

I believe ALL newborn's come into this world as perfect little angels. What happens to them, as children, and how they are raised, determines what kind of people they will become.

 

[KingsX]

Like my Grandpa always said;

"Some people are born to be hung".

Sorry to disagree with you, but I absolutely do not believe in the "bad seed".

I believe ALL newborn's come into this world as perfect little angels. What happens to them, as children, and how they are raised, determines what kind of people they will become.

The Bible also has a death penalty law for "bad seeds."

Both parents must agree and prove in court their errant offspring poses a danger.