The Me Too Movement and Me...and Possibly You

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Shalimar said:
The best moments of enlightenment often catch us by surprise. A teacher once told me that intelligence is often a barrier to enlightenment. I was quite insulted, until I discovered it to be true often enough. Sometimes we overthink things instead of just allowing space for change.
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I think your teacher is right. I think the intelligence often rationalizes everything and creates barriers. For me it seems to be about controlling stuff, so I don't experience the awfullness again. I think there needs to be a balance between intelligence and intuition--or whatever label we might give the part of us that comes up with the quiet knowing. I'm allowing for that balance now, finally.
 

Phoenix said:
I think your teacher is right. I think the intelligence often rationalizes everything and creates barriers. For me it seems to be about controlling stuff, so I don't experience the awfullness again. I think there needs to be a balance between intelligence and intuition--or whatever label we might give the part of us that comes up with the quiet knowing. I'm allowing for that balance now, finally.
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For me, that has been the hardest step, the one that separates survivor from victor. I salute you!
 
Hoot N Annie said:
Great OP Phoenix, about MeToo. Sadly there are folks, usually older men, who still think that Bill Cosby and Harvey Winestein were the victims. Nothing will ever overcome their ignorance except their own demise.
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Ignorance is the lack of knowledge , Do you have actual indisputable knowledge of what happened, in each of their situations? Since I seriously doubt it..... When exactly will you overcome your ignorance ?
 
rgp said:
Ignorance is the lack of knowledge , Do you have actual indisputable knowledge of what happened, in each of their situations? Since I seriously doubt it..... When exactly will you overcome your ignorance ?
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How is this not different from any other crime where there's enough evidence for a trial? Should the public decide that? Because what you're suggesting is that it's you who should decide whether someone is guilty or not. Used to be that way. Just hang'em high. It goes both ways. So be very careful about what you're suggesting.
 
Olivia said:
How is this not different from any other crime where there's enough evidence for a trial? Should the public decide that? Because what you're suggesting is that it's you who should decide whether someone is guilty or not. Used to be that way. Just hang'em high. It goes both ways. So be very careful about what you're suggesting.
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The only thing I am suggesting is .....a difference of opinion does not denote ignorance or intelligence .

Also show me where I suggested [even slightly] that it should be I that decides guilt or innocence. I did not, I merely voiced an opposing opinion.

And I might also suggest/ask....what exactly was/is the evidence ? Yes I am aware that there was some admission....to certain things..but at the time the 'victims' appear to have conceded to it. It was only several years later that they suddenly became 'victims' . There never was any mention of force.
As such IMO they are not 'victims' at all. However giving their stories to the 'select' jury, it amounts to evidence....which i dismiss a B.S.
 
rgp said:
The only thing I am suggesting is .....a difference of opinion does not denote ignorance or intelligence .

Also show me where I suggested [even slightly] that it should be I that decides guilt or innocence. I did not, I merely voiced an opposing opinion.

And I might also suggest/ask....what exactly was/is the evidence ? Yes I am aware that there was some admission....to certain things..but at the time the 'victims' appear to have conceded to it. It was only several years later that they suddenly became 'victims' . There never was any mention of force.
As such IMO they are not 'victims' at all. However giving their stories to the 'select' jury, it amounts to evidence....which i dismiss a B.S.
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How is what you're saying now any different from what you've been saying up to now? It's still your opinion which is your right. Go ahead and dismiss what you consider B.S. but makes no difference in that we're a country of laws when there's enough evidence to indict and go to trial; that's how we do things here in a constitutional based society. You want to go on emotion, then you need to either go to some other country in line with your emotional opinions about guilt or innocence or get going a constitutional amendment where indictments are based on the vote by the public in general.
 
rgp said:
Ignorance is the lack of knowledge , Do you have actual indisputable knowledge of what happened, in each of their situations? Since I seriously doubt it..... When exactly will you overcome your ignorance ?
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Yours is a statement of ignorance and lack of compassion.
 
Olivia said:
How is what you're saying now any different from what you've been saying up to now? It's still your opinion which is your right. Go ahead and dismiss what you consider B.S. but makes no difference in that we're a country of laws when there's enough evidence to indict and go to trial; that's how we do things here in a constitutional based society. You want to go on emotion, then you need to either go to some other country in line with your emotional opinions about guilt or innocence or get going a constitutional amendment where indictments are based on the vote by the public in general.
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You are correct, in that it is what I have been saying....why would I change my opinion?

My opinion being that the stories were told to a 'select' group that bought them as stated. As such they called for indictment . I disagree with those people. As I always will.

I do not believe these women period. Do i believe that some / many of the 'interludes' happened?...Yes I suppose. But I believe the women at the time were willing , consenting participants....who later turned themselves into the victims they now profess to be.

Lets look at the one that stated that Mr Weinstein 'forced' her to watch as he masterbatted in the shower. Just exactly how does one force another , to watch anything? Close your eyes or leave.

According to her she stayed....it was gross....then she left. So! she did what was asked of her? so that she could gain what she did?....That is a business deal ....nothing more.
 
rgp said:
You are correct, in that it is what I have been saying....why would I change my opinion?

My opinion being that the stories were told to a 'select' group that bought them as stated. As such they called for indictment . I disagree with those people. As I always will.

I do not believe these women period. Do i believe that some / many of the 'interludes' happened?...Yes I suppose. But I believe the women at the time were willing , consenting participants....who later turned themselves into the victims they now profess to be.

Lets look at the one that stated that Mr Weinstein 'forced' her to watch as he masterbatted in the shower. Just exactly how does one force another , to watch anything? Close your eyes or leave.

According to her she stayed....it was gross....then she left. So! she did what was asked of her? so that she could gain what she did?....That is a business deal ....nothing more.
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Apparently you are unaware of the disparity of power dynamic which often exists between men and women. I was a graduate student, raped by my favourite professor/mentor. The betrayal was huge. I remained silent because I knew he would ensure I was blacklisted. I would never have received my PhD. He would have used many of the comments you have put forward, in

order to discredit me and protect himself. He was a famous, well respected psychologist, chair of a department in Canada’s most pretigious university. Who would have believed me? The most surreal part was his belief that we had shared a pleasant experience, in spite of my bruises and bloody underwear. He truly believed that I owed him my body in exchange for his assistance.
 
Shalimar said:
Apparently you are unaware of the disparity of power dynamic which often exists between men and women. I was a graduate student, raped by my favourite professor/mentor. The betrayal was huge. I remained silent because I knew he would ensure I was blacklisted. I would never have received my PhD. He would have used many of the comments you have put forward, in

order to discredit me and protect himself. He was a famous, well respected psychologist, chair of a department in Canada’s most pretigious university. Who would have believed me? The most surreal part was his belief that we had shared a pleasant experience, in spite of my bruises and bloody underwear. He truly believed that I owed him my body in exchange for his assistance.
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Well this thread is about a story in the news.


I'm not going to comment on your personal experience...that would be almost cruel...I will say however that i am truly sorry that it happened to you.
 
I think the confusion in some men's minds is that they think that women feel the same about all men the same that women feel about men that they love and feel an attachment to. That's wrong. Men can feel that way about (in general) any women they feel attraction toward. Women feel emotions first. That's the difference, and I think that's where males get confused and get it wrong. It's not the same for us. To women, men are not just body parts.
 
rgp said:
Ignorance is the lack of knowledge , Do you have oactual indisputable knowledge of what happened, in each of their situations? Since I seriously doubt it..... When exactly will you overcome your ignorance ?
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lol. I musta struck a nerve. Nice try at deflection, but no.

I do appreciate you validating my post. Thanks
 
Olivia said:
I think the confusion in some men's minds is that they think that women feel the same about all men the same that women feel about men that they love and feel an attachment to. That's wrong. Men can feel that way about (in general) any women they feel attraction toward. Women feel emotions first. That's the difference, and I think that's where males get confused and get it wrong. It's not the same for us. To women, men are not just body parts.
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"I think the confusion in some men's minds is that they think that women feel the same about all men the same that women feel about men that they love and feel an attachment to. That's wrong. Men can feel that way about (in general) any women they feel attraction toward. "

Not sure I get your meaning here?



Women feel emotions first.

Well some...yes, but others will & do use their sexuality when ever it appears it may benefit them.


"That's the difference, and I think that's where males get confused and get it wrong. "

Oh so, we [men & women] see it differently....but of course in your eyes?...we [men] get it wrong? Women are never wrong?.....yeah OK.....<sarc>
 
rgp said:
"I think the confusion in some men's minds is that they think that women feel the same about all men the same that women feel about men that they love and feel an attachment to. That's wrong. Men can feel that way about (in general) any women they feel attraction toward. "

Not sure I get your meaning here?



Women feel emotions first.

Well some...yes, but others will & do use their sexuality when ever it appears it may benefit them.


"That's the difference, and I think that's where males get confused and get it wrong. "

Oh so, we [men & women] see it differently....but of course in your eyes?...we [men] get it wrong? Women are never wrong?.....yeah OK.....<sarc>
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There is something really wrong you. I pity any woman who's ever had the misfortune to be with you. Keep it up. I don't see you anymore. Say whatever you like. You no longer exist to me.
 
Olivia said:
There is something really wrong you. I pity any woman who's ever had the misfortune to be with you. Keep it up. I don't see you anymore. Say whatever you like. You no longer exist to me.
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Works for me....just can't stand being opposed can ya.....your always right...right?....
 
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