Why Kill This Lion?!

[Warrigal]

Captive animals in well run zoos and nature reserves can be a useful gene bank for endangered species. In Australia we have had diseases that have threatened some of our native animals in the wild. Tasmanian devil numbers are dropping because of a nasty facial tumour that is passed on by biting. Since the devils are always snapping and snarling at each other over their food, this looked like their days in the wild were numbered. Scientists and vets studied the disease and found some individuals seemed to be immune. They were taken into captivity and bred with disease free devils in zoos and sanctuaries. The offspring are being released into the wild in the hope of increasing natural immunity to the cancer.

Koalas in certain parts of Australia are infected with chlamydia and numbers are declining. Again, zoos and reserves are very important in the fight to save the koala populations from this disease. It is a pity that they can't be as effective at persuading governments to preserve habitat because when the animals are squeezed into remnant bushland, diseases are spread more easily.

Well run zoos are part of a global effort to preserve biodiversity through breeding programs. Inbreeding is avoided by use of artificial insemination and by shipping breeding stock between zoos on different continents. If for no other reason, zoos are essential as a last defence against extinction of threatened and endangered species, including lions.

 

[Butterfly]

I agree with you Oldman, animals who are in danger of becoming extinct should be left alone. Hunters who kill only for the trophies don't impress me either, they have serious personal 'issues' as far as I'm concerned. And those who participate in 'canned hunts', where the animals are fenced in and don't even have a chance to run away before getting killed by one of these so called hunters, should be behind cages themselves. I don't know how people can be so cruel to animals just for a cheap thrill.

I couldn't agree more. It's absolutely barbaric.

 

[Warrigal]

I followed the link in the OP and it took me to the FaceBook page of the Conservators Center.
It makes interesting reading.

This is their statement:

We are heartbroken to announce the death yesterday morning of a remarkable young woman, Alexandra Black, 22, who recently began a husbandry internship at the Conservators Center. Alex was working with one of our husbandry teams cleaning a lion enclosure, when a lion who had been locked into a separate holding enclosure somehow managed to enter the enclosure in which our team was working and killed Alex. No other humans were injured.

Although Alex was with us for a very short time, she made an impact on our community. We are a close-knit family of paid staff and volunteers and are devastated by the loss of this vibrant, smart young woman. Alex had undertaken multiple internships, the most recent of which was at Wolf Park in Battle Ground, Indiana. Her family has asked for those who would like to honor her memory to consider donating to Wolf Park, and we echo that request here.

We ask that you respect her family’s privacy while they are grappling with the loss of Alex and grieving for her.
When our husbandry teams clean big cat enclosures they follow a safety protocol that involves moving the cats into a separate space and securing them before humans enter the adjacent space. The specifics of what happened are still under investigation.
Our lion, Matthai, was euthanized by first responders by necessity. Matthai was a 14-year-old male who was born at the Conservators Center shortly after his mother was placed with us following a USDA-assisted confiscation in 2004.

We cannot provide further information at this time. We appreciate the outpouring of support for Alex’s family and the Conservators Center family and will provide more information as it becomes available. In the meantime, please understand that we are all traumatized by this incident. Just as Alex’s family needs privacy in this time of mourning, our staff and volunteers also need time to grieve while we return to our work caring for the rest of our residents.

The comments below are almost universally in support of the facility.

The lion was shot by a deputy, not centre staff, and there is a suggestion that the woman was still alive but bleeding out when he was shot. An enquiry will surely be held at which time the full story will be told.

 

[JimW]

When I think of big game hunting, I think of hunting animals like the big cats, rhinos, elephants, etc. Some of these animals, we are running low on. The snow leopard, which has been said to be taken at least once per day is now on the endangered list. Such a beautiful animal will soon be gone.

As for elk, bison and such, hunting is controlled by licenses and seasons. Elk meat tastes better than venison, but bear is terrible, IMO. Bison is so-so. You can buy these meats at a Cabella’s store. My favorite wild meat is turkey, which is much better than domesticated.

People kill elephants for the tusks only because they can get a lot of money, but they leave the rest of the animal to the predators to eat. Same for rhinos. The baby seals are still being slaughtered for their pelt. Minks are farm grown and I understand that the mink coat business is still in demand.

If people kill an animal because they need to feed their family, which when I was a kid I knew some that did, then OK, otherwise, if people are killing animals for the trophy, why? I have seen hunter’s trophies and I was never impressed.

Spot on!

 

[hollydolly]

I agree. Killing the lion makes no sense at all.

I don't like zoos at all, and I think someday they will be considered a barbaric relic of the past.

I'm with you, I have always hated Zoos, since the first time I was taken to one as a child.

I quite happily go on safari, but not a Zoo....

 

[Keesha]

What about dog agility contests, where their owners have them jump and crawl thru things. Another thing where a human is pushing an animal to do things. What will be next, protesting kids learning how to fish? Oh, that's already happened and it's really, really stupid. And, what about, in some parts of the country, older kids that learn how to shoot a rifle and hunt...…...and they love it.

Ok, I'll stop here.

Gotta post your favourite emoji for this post of yours Rockr because it’s so worthy of it

:wtf: :shrug:

 

[Keesha]

What does dog agility contests have to do with wild animals being removed from their natural habitats and kept in cages, sometimes suffering mistreatment and abuse?? I don't get it! Are dogs being taken out of their natural habitat and kept in cages and abused....I don't think so.

I showed one of my dogs in a couple of obedience trials and obstacle courses just for fun, most dogs that do this thrive on it, they love the game and are treated with love as part of the family when they get home, mine slept in bed with us, ate the best foods and relaxed on the chairs and couches with us just like family. Because for dog lovers, they are no less than family.

You're way off base in your response to my post CR, apples and oranges. Fishing or shooting rifles and controlled seasonal and licensed hunting as Oldman mentioned has nothing to do with putting wild exotic animals in cages for their entire lives just for people's amusement. Think about it.

:clap:
Great post!

 

[ClassicRockr]

It's like I posted, Seabreeze.........not everyone has the money to fly to Africa and go on a safari. So, what does a person do if they want to see exotic animals live (not pictures).........go to a local zoo. Only thing to do.

BTW, I've already got a Reputation point from a poster on this thread. So, at least one person agrees with me.

 

[JimW]

It's like I posted, Seabreeze.........not everyone has the money to fly to Africa and go on a safari. So, what does a person do if they want to see exotic animals live (not pictures).........go to a local zoo. Only thing to do.

BTW, I've already got a Reputation point from a poster on this thread. So, at least one person agrees with me.

Not everyone has the money to live in a castle or drive a Ferrari. What do you suggest we do if people really want these?

Just because people want things they can't afford doesn't mean they have a right to them.

 

[ClassicRockr]

Not everyone has the money to live in a castle or drive a Ferrari. What do you suggest we do if people really want these?

Well, it's much easier to go without living in a castle or owning a Ferrari than it is not ever seeing an exotic animal "live". Anyway, there are lots of zoos in America that millions of people go to.

There are different things that people want stopped all the time, but both fortunately and unfortunately, people don't get what they want.

 

[Sunny]

Siegfried and Roy's act ended abruptly when Roy was attacked by a male white tiger and left paralyzed. To their credit, those two apparently really loved their animals, and asked that the tiger not be
"punished" or worse.

However, I kind of feel the same about their act as I do about zoos, circuses, etc. Keeping animals in captivity, or forcing them to do "tricks" to amuse the public (if they want to get fed) is a cruel violation of
nature. The fact that we humans can do something doesn't always mean that we should do it.

I don't think dog agility contests come anywhere near to being the same subject. Most dogs enjoy doing "tricks" and some of them are very good at running through mazes, etc. I never particularly enjoy watching regular dog shows where dogs are just trotted around and have to stand still for long periods. But I love watching the dog agility contests; the dogs are clearly having a wonderful time!

 

[JimW]

Well, it's much easier to go without living in a castle or owning a Ferrari than it is not ever seeing an exotic animal "live". Anyway, there are lots of zoos in America that millions of people go to.

There are different things that people want stopped all the time, but both fortunately and unfortunately, people don't get what they want.

Please explain to me how you are negatively affected by not seeing an exotic animal live and how that is more difficult for you than not living in a castle or driving a Ferrari. (For some reason I feel like I just entered a black hole.)

 

[Gary O']

Well, it's much easier to go without living in a castle or owning a Ferrari than it is not ever seeing an exotic animal "live". Anyway, there are lots of zoos in America that millions of people go to.

There are different things that people want stopped all the time, but both fortunately and unfortunately, people don't get what they want.

So, we progressed from putting down a large animal to castles and Ferraris

What a great thread!

No need to go flittering about

Everthing is right here!


OK, now let’s talk about ice cream,
and feeding it to bears,
to watch them gobble it up

….just to see their headaches develop

 

[JimW]

So, we progressed from putting down a large animal to castles and Ferraris

What a great thread!

No need to go flittering about

Everthing is right here!


OK, now let’s talk about ice cream,
and feeding it to bears,
to watch them gobble it up

….just to see their headaches develop

The question that needs to be asked here is: How badly do you want to feed ice cream to the bears to watch them have brain freeze and how does that trump my want to live in a castle and drive a Ferrari and Cody's desire to view exotic animals in real life without going on safari in Africa? These are the tough questions and someone needs to ask them.

 

[Gary O']

The question that needs to be asked here is: How badly do you want to feed ice cream to the bears to watch them have brain freeze and how does that trump my want to live in a castle and drive a Ferrari and Cody's desire to view exotic animals in real life without going on safari in Africa? These are the tough questions and someone needs to ask them.

Oh yeah? Well now, buster, you jus’ tell me what that has to do with which way to put the toilet paper roll on the holder, hmmmmm….hmmmmm?!

(are we far enough OT yet, or must we venture to Africa…in our Ferraris?)

 

[JimW]

Oh yeah? Well now, buster, you jus’ tell me what that has to do with which way to put the toilet paper roll on the holder, hmmmmm….hmmmmm?!

(are we far enough OT yet, or must we venture to Africa…in our Ferraris?)

Well if you decide that my want to live in a castle is the most important of them all, we won't have to worry about which way to put the toilet paper roll on because we'll have servants to wipe our butts.

 

[ClassicRockr]

The question that needs to be asked here is: How badly do you want to feed ice cream to the bears to watch them have brain freeze and how does that trump my want to live in a castle and drive a Ferrari and Cody's desire to view exotic animals in real life without going on safari in Africa? These are the tough questions and someone needs to ask them.

Just done a "Rep" for you...…..why? Because what you are saying in this post is absolutely true. But, like other subjects that can be/are controversial, people want to ask and, no matter what the opinion is of others, they also want answers.

All I know is that we like going to the zoo, enjoyed the Ringling Bros Circus (when it was still operating), enjoy seeing Big Game mounts at conventions and sporting goods stores and like watching elk and deer hunting shows on the Outdoor Channel. This is basically all I can say about this topic.

 

[Gary O']

Well if you decide that my want to live in a castle is the most important of them all, we won't have to worry about which way to put the toilet paper roll on because we'll have servants to wipe our butts.

That, sir, is an excruciatingly cruel vision.....and unusual

Consider yerself eightysixed from the taproom until further notice...(or until I get an invite to yer castle loo)

 

[rgp]

Siegfried and Roy's act ended abruptly when Roy was attacked by a male white tiger and left paralyzed. To their credit, those two apparently really loved their animals, and asked that the tiger not be
"punished" or worse.

However, I kind of feel the same about their act as I do about zoos, circuses, etc. Keeping animals in captivity, or forcing them to do "tricks" to amuse the public (if they want to get fed) is a cruel violation of
nature. The fact that we humans can do something doesn't always mean that we should do it.

I don't think dog agility contests come anywhere near to being the same subject. Most dogs enjoy doing "tricks" and some of them are very good at running through mazes, etc. I never particularly enjoy watching regular dog shows where dogs are just trotted around and have to stand still for long periods. But I love watching the dog agility contests; the dogs are clearly having a wonderful time!

I agree here.

Were those two guys dressed in those black & white striped suits during that show? I wonder if that Tiger just became confused? Thought he saw another Tiger? As i recall, he did not continue the attack....he suddenly backed off?

My Ex pet / house cat, used to attack himself all the time, when he saw his reflection in the fireplace door, thinking it was another cat.

 

[Keesha]

Siegfried and Roy's act ended abruptly when Roy was attacked by a male white tiger and left paralyzed. To their credit, those two apparently really loved their animals, and asked that the tiger not be
"punished" or worse.

However, I kind of feel the same about their act as I do about zoos, circuses, etc. Keeping animals in captivity, or forcing them to do "tricks" to amuse the public (if they want to get fed) is a cruel violation of
nature. The fact that we humans can do something doesn't always mean that we should do it.

I don't think dog agility contests come anywhere near to being the same subject. Most dogs enjoy doing "tricks" and some of them are very good at running through mazes, etc. I never particularly enjoy watching regular dog shows where dogs are just trotted around and have to stand still for long periods. But I love watching the dog agility contests; the dogs are clearly having a wonderful time!

I agree completely but I would like to add that they didn’t blame the animal that did it to him and stated that it was their own fault it happened and not that of the animal which I at least had respect for.

 

[Keesha]

The question that needs to be asked here is: How badly do you want to feed ice cream to the bears to watch them have brain freeze and how does that trump my want to live in a castle and drive a Ferrari and Cody's desire to view exotic animals in real life without going on safari in Africa? These are the tough questions and someone needs to ask them.

You have a way of putting things Jim. :laugh:

 

[JimW]

Just done a "Rep" for you...…..why? Because what you are saying in this post is absolutely true. But, like other subjects that can be/are controversial, people want to ask and, no matter what the opinion is of others, they also want answers.

All I know is that we like going to the zoo, enjoyed the Ringling Bros Circus (when it was still operating), enjoy seeing Big Game mounts at conventions and sporting goods stores and like watching elk and deer hunting shows on the Outdoor Channel. This is basically all I can say about this topic.

It all boils down to one's opinion. Where I draw the line is when any activity causes a living being to be unnecessarily harmed or treated poorly, then it really shouldn't be something that is in high demand. Hunting to survive or feed one's family and culling herds for the greater good is acceptable imo, hunting strictly for trophies to hang on one's wall is not. Keeping wild animals captive in restrictive places and in poor conditions (like some zoos), simply for human enjoyment is cruel to the animals. Wildlife Refuges are a much better environment for these animals than being caged in zoos.

 

[oldman]

I visited the Columbus Zoo for the first time in October. As I walked through the many acres and viewed the many different species of animals, I would sometimes think to myself, “I bet they (the animals) would rather be back in their homeland free to do and roam at their discretion.”

Towards the end of my visit, I had the pleasure of speaking with one of the caretakers. I asked her if it costs a lot of money to buy or bring these animals here to the zoo? She told me that most of these animals were born at this or another zoo. Only a very few had been bought and shipped here. I was surprised to learn that.

Now, having learned that many of the animals were born in the zoo made me realize that they are better off being where they are. With them being somewhat domesticated, it’s probably in their best interests to stay put. Besides, they also serve a purpose allowing those of us that will probably never get to Africa, Australia, Indonesia or South America to be able to see the animals live and not stuffed and hanging on someone’s wall on in a sporting goods store. Believe me, these animals are treated well. They get fed well and have immediate medical care when necessary. Even surgery is done in their well equipped hospital.

I would recommend to anyone that has the resources and desire to visit the Columbus Zoo. They state that their zoo is now the largest in America. I was very impressed seeing the many different animals, but for whatever reason, when I stood next to the Croc with just a thin fence between us, I was a bit nervous and told my wife to hurry up and get the picture.

 

[JimW]

That, sir, is an excruciatingly cruel vision.....and unusual

Consider yerself eightysixed from the taproom until further notice...(or until I get an invite to yer castle loo)

How soon ye forgets the soft porn recently posted in your diary. My eyes have yet to recover. :laugh:

 

[SeaBreeze]

It all boils down to one's opinion. Where I draw the line is when any activity causes a living being to be unnecessarily harmed or treated poorly, then it really shouldn't be something that is in high demand.

Hunting to survive or feed one's family and culling herds for the greater good is acceptable imo, hunting strictly for trophies to hang on one's wall is not. Keeping wild animals captive in restrictive places and in poor conditions (like some zoos), simply for human enjoyment is cruel to the animals. Wildlife Refuges are a much better environment for these animals than being caged in zoos.

I completely agree Jim, well said.