11 killed by terrorists at satirical newspaper in Paris! called for

Debby said:
Bad guys will always get guns no matter what, but responding to the criticism about 'gun control', I'll bet France doesn't have instances of two year old's shooting their mothers in the local shopping mall.
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I agree... I find the argument "but the criminals will get guns no matter what" to be ridiculous... I believe I have said this before... YES and that's why they are called CRIMINALS! In addition, following that logic.. perhaps we should eliminate ALL laws because criminal will not follow them anyway? Perhaps we should NOT have vehicle registration, because some people steal cars to commit crimes. Perhaps we should do away with drivers licenses, because some people drive without them. A civilized society governs itself with laws.. without them we have anarchy.. Criminals must be dealt with by the proper authority, and not have everyone running around being the judge and the jury.
 

I heard an interesting theory yesterday;
the French; since the revolution; have tended to be less tolerant and more confrontational in the protection of free speech than the UK; hence the cartoons there were not published in UK.
some say they were braver; satirising everything; any religion as well as any subject that they felt was impinging on their free speech.
although many; of all religions; found some of their work offensive; I don't feel that that should lead to a death sentence.
as for bad foreign policy.....no comment.
 
According to the latest reports on the news, these two
brothers were born in Paris.

France is reported to have more Radicals than any other
European country, they also have more travelling to the
Middle East to fight "Jihad".

My ancestry was Irish, yet during the "Troubles" in the
North of Irelend, I never felt like getting training and taking
part on either side, nor did any Priests, Ministers, Vicars etc.,
of the various religions encourage anybody to do so.

I wonder why some in the Muslim Faith encourage this behavior,
it is not the religion that is driving the hate, only a few hot-headed
religious leaders that do, they have got so many riled up, that I think
the normal sane members are afraid to stand up to them as it would
be certain death if they did.

mike.
 

"I wonder why some in the Muslim Faith Encourage this behavior"............

Religious Fanaticism is, and always has been, a "Hallmark" of most religions at some point in their history. Islam was founded about 700 years after Christianity, and, as such, Islam is about at the same point that Christianity was during the late Middle Ages...when things like the Spanish Inquisition committed massive atrocities against those who did not adhere to the teachings of its "radicals". Every religion thinks it has the Answer, and everyone else is wrong. I think a lot of these extremists are going to be sadly disappointed when they die.
 
Don M. said:
"I wonder why some in the Muslim Faith Encourage this behavior"............

Religious Fanaticism is, and always has been, a "Hallmark" of most religions at some point in their history. Islam was founded about 700 years after Christianity, and, as such, Islam is about at the same point that Christianity was during the late Middle Ages...when things like the Spanish Inquisition committed massive atrocities against those who did not adhere to the teachings of its "radicals". Every religion thinks it has the Answer, and everyone else is wrong. I think a lot of these extremists are going to be sadly disappointed when they die.
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This is true... There is also a section of Christian extremists that feels murder appropriate and justified in the name of God. .. Ask Dr. George Tiller's family. There is no difference... only the scope of the violence.
 
If everyone truly followed the teachings of their religious beliefs, we would be living in Utopia. However, this "My God is Better than Your God" mentality is the root cause of most of the problems.
 
Catholic League Blames Magazine

The president of the Catholic League aka Bill Donohue blames the magazine staff itself which is basically victim blaming/shaming.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/catholic-league-president-muslims-angry-article-1.2069495

See Charlie Hebdo is an equal opportunity satirist, can't have that now can we. Donohue is basically trying to prevent future commentary that might not be too favorable to his organization or his career.

I should add this is the same guy that said the church abuse scandal wasn't about pedophilia but a homosexual crisis in order to rationalize their priests actions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/31/bill-donohue-catholic-sex_n_520187.html
 
Of course, there may well be more to this case than it seems at present; sometimes things are done 'in the name of' something [often religion] but if these men were of Algerian stock, it could be more about the way French society treats them [badly usually.] A bit like the IRA was nothing to do with the difference between Catholics and Protestants [really] but was political.Anyway, I expect it will all come out eventually.
 
Mike said:
I wonder why some in the Muslim Faith encourage this behavior,
it is not the religion that is driving the hate, only a few hot-headed
religious leaders that do, they have got so many riled up, that I think
the normal sane members are afraid to stand up to them as it would
be certain death if they did.
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I think the Muslim faith has yet to go through the steps to more peaceful acceptance of other's belief, just as the Christians had to years ago. http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

Those who create cartoons like that against any religion are just using hate, and that's what they'll get in return right now from these radical Muslims who have enough of being taunted and poked in the eye with a pencil all the time. I understand the newspaper that was attacked had past issues, so they knew it was a matter of time before the next attack. I'm all for freedom of speech, but satirists have to reel in the nasty hate against all religions really. Is all that childish crap really necessary? Talk about dumbing down America.
 
SeaBreeze said:
I think the Muslim faith has yet to go through the steps to more peaceful acceptance of other's belief, just as the Christians had to years ago. http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

Those who create cartoons like that against any religion are just using hate, and that's what they'll get in return right now from these radical Muslims who have enough of being taunted and poked in the eye with a pencil all the time. I understand the newspaper that was attacked had past issues, so they knew it was a matter of time before the next attack. I'm all for freedom of speech, but satirists have to reel in the nasty hate against all religions really. Is all that childish crap really necessary? Talk about dumbing down America.
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Well said, and I agree.
 
I disagree to an extent; the French don't regard these cartoons as hate in general; they are much more concerned with the concept of free speech, and freedom of the press.
they have laws against the burka in certain situations; and the far right are rapidly increasing in popularity again, and regard themselves as fiercely independent; even within the EU.
we have been told we are too tolerant.....the Russians have said that the French are too tolerant...
 
Freedom of speech
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Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas using one's body and property to anyone who is willing to receive them. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech
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So does this mean... only when what you say does not offend anyone? Or... does it mean religion is off limits? Or does it just say "the right to communicate one's opinions and ideas." The people at Charlie Hebdo KNEW what they were doing was dangerous. They had been threatened many times.. I suppose they felt strongly enough about the principle of freedom of speech to die for it.
 
Vivjen said:
One of them gave an interview a couple of years ago saying just that....
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And for them to kow-tow to the demands of the terrorists means the terrorists have won. That's how they win.. making everyone afraid to to anything that might enrage them and bring retribution.
 
Exactly....that is why the French consider the UK to be too tolerant...the latest expression appears to be self-censor; most people do; these cartoonists didn't.
 
SeaBreeze said:
I think the Muslim faith has yet to go through the steps to more peaceful acceptance of other's belief, just as the Christians had to years ago. http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

Those who create cartoons like that against any religion are just using hate, and that's what they'll get in return right now from these radical Muslims who have enough of being taunted and poked in the eye with a pencil all the time. I understand the newspaper that was attacked had past issues, so they knew it was a matter of time before the next attack. I'm all for freedom of speech, but satirists have to reel in the nasty hate against all religions really. Is all that childish crap really necessary? Talk about dumbing down America.
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i more or less said the same thing on another forum and it was not well received by some .
 
Vivjen said:
Exactly....that is why the French consider the UK to be too tolerant...the latest expression appears to be self-censor; most people do; these cartoonists didn't.
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History is filled with hero's willing to die for their principles.. They have always been seen as trouble makers and foolish to some. Fortunately for the rest of us, they existed.
 
QuickSilver said:
History is filled with hero's willing to die for their principles.. They have always been seen as trouble makers and foolish to some. Fortunately for the rest of us, they existed.
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I agree. There is self censoring then there is caving into extortion. Sometimes you have to choose live and/or die on principle.
 
SeaBreeze said:
I think the Muslim faith has yet to go through the steps to more peaceful acceptance of other's belief, just as the Christians had to years ago. http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

Those who create cartoons like that against any religion are just using hate, and that's what they'll get in return right now from these radical Muslims who have enough of being taunted and poked in the eye with a pencil all the time. I understand the newspaper that was attacked had past issues, so they knew it was a matter of time before the next attack. I'm all for freedom of speech, but satirists have to reel in the nasty hate against all religions really. Is all that childish crap really necessary? Talk about dumbing down America.
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I don't think the cartoonist or any satirist for that matter are showing their "hate" but their fervent opposition to an idea, policy or opinion. Dark humor, cynicism or satire doesn't necessarily mean hate but it does mean I think this is wrong with an exclamation point. "hate" is as much the interpretation of the subject of an opinion. Coerced or incentivized censorship imposed or voluntary just because of a potential threat IS caving into extortion. I'm sure after previous incidents if the staff or business partner were that "afraid" they wouldn't have entered the building or work there. With any movement or ideology the fanatics seem to rule the day so to speak but not it's entire lifespan.
 
Satire has long been used for expression of political decent. It's not new to this century.. It dates back to Greek and Roman times. It's not hate.. and it's really not meant to be funny.. It's meant to make a point and express an opinion.
 
Geezerette said:
I don't agree with Debby regarding the Pauls. Just one more example of "blaming the victim."
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Don't be ridiculous. I'm not blaming any victims! Quit trying to make something out of a comment that will suit your agenda. Good grief.

If you have a child that is acting up, do you just keep beating him down or at some point do you get the smarts to look at why that kid is behaving that way? Common sense says look for the causes and go from there. And I'm also not saying that the bad actor shouldn't be stopped. But this is something that must be dealt with on a number of fronts. The 'shoot first mentality and then forget about it' hasn't accomplished mush of anything except the continued growth of the problem.
 
Hang on a minute; what are we talking about here?
islamic extremists shoot first.... The majority of Muslims don't; who are we blaming for this shooting massacre?
 
QuickSilver said:
So does this mean... only when what you say does not offend anyone? Or... does it mean religion is off limits? Or does it just say "the right to communicate one's opinions and ideas." The people at Charlie Hebdo KNEW what they were doing was dangerous. They had been threatened many times.. I suppose they felt strongly enough about the principle of freedom of speech to die for it.
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I guess it's akin to that saying, 'if you're going to do the crime, then be prepared to do the time'. If they were aware of the possibilities of harm to themselves, then they must have been prepared to pay the ultimate price. The world is full of nuts who often are drawn into religiosity as their 'raisons d'être'.
 
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