A new topic in Groups

Warrigal

Warrigal

SF VIP
Location
Sydney, Australia
For those interested, a new topic has been started in the Group 'Of Matters Spiritual'. It is about the seat of self, of the soul, of consciousness. Anyone can read but you need to join the group to post.

Frivolity is discouraged.
 

Must be a closed group because I don't see it listed with the other forums, nor do I have any idea what a group is on this BB or how to join one.

So I guess I'll go frivol on a forum!
 
Here's the link Guitarist. https://www.seniorforums.com/group.php?groupid=16


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Click to expand...
 

Warrigal said:
For those interested, a new topic has been started in the Group 'Of Matters Spiritual'. It is about the seat of self, of the soul, of consciousness. Anyone can read but you need to join the group to post.

Frivolity is discouraged.
Click to expand...
What I studied in Sociology was often the nature of consciousness. It was believed that consciousness always has a focus. It was De Carte Who came up with: "Cogito ergo sum" I think therefore I am. There was a second consciousness which was an observer. For example: Imagine you are a potter working at a pot. As you are working on the pot you concentrate on the pot. Yet there is the observer taking in the information. Another way is to imagine you are in a theater. the movie starts and you suspend belief, you become part of the movie, but as the observer you always know you are in a theater. Who is watching when you talk to your girl friend For me the question becomes: "How do you separate the soul and consciousness from self. Your question leaves the definitions blank.

So what if the soul and consciousness become self. There is one other factor here. Dr. Carl Jung discovered archetypal entities that participate in our personality. It would seem that the self might have another side to it. The theory espoused by Dr. Jung is still relevant today. The MMPI is a test that tells people about their personality. I would say that self consists of focused consciousness and the observer. The soul seems like an immortal archetype connected to the personality. Consciousness can be described as participating in an ongoing dialectic. The potter internalizes the pot he is creating, externalizes his idea of the pot back into the pot realizes the pot in consciousness. These are moments of the dialectic and occur simultaneously. Consciousness is a busy place. Consciousness also is responsible for creating reality. And consciousness participates in the creation of the social reality. Nuff said.
 
That sounds like a fascinating field of study, Uncontrolable. I tend to avoid labels for myself, including serious ones like Jung's I operate on the basis that I am ME and that I am unique in the universe. I am like everyone else yet I am different. This is why I have a name and not a number. What's more, the essence of ME was there before I was born. I am convinced of this because I have seen this in my own children. Regardless of my best efforts to shape them, they developed independently into the person that was there inside the tiny baby. All I was able to do was a bit of polishing. As a scientist I could talk about the twins nature and nurture but they seem inadequate to explain ME, let alone my children.

Obviously I am unschooled in this subject but I don't deny the concept of a soul, nor the idea that a soul can sicken and die.

PS I started the group Of Matters Spiritual because I was finding that serious subjects like this one tend to be derailed by people who have nothing to add who post trite and frivolous contributions. If this happens it is best to retreat to the group area of this forum. It is also an area that is invisible to non members.
 
Warrigal said:
That sounds like a fascinating field of study, Uncontrolable. I tend to avoid labels for myself, including serious ones like Jung's I operate on the basis that I am ME and that I am unique in the universe. I am like everyone else yet I am different. This is why I have a name and not a number. What's more, the essence of ME was there before I was born. I am convinced of this because I have seen this in my own children. Regardless of my best efforts to shape them, they developed independently into the person that was there inside the tiny baby. All I was able to do was a bit of polishing. As a scientist I could talk about the twins nature and nurture but they seem inadequate to explain ME, let alone my children.

Obviously I am unschooled in this subject but I don't deny the concept of a soul, nor the idea that a soul can sicken and die.

PS I started the group Of Matters Spiritual because I was finding that serious subjects like this one tend to be derailed by people who have nothing to add who post trite and frivolous contributions. If this happens it is best to retreat to the group area of this forum. It is also an area that is invisible to non members.
Click to expand...

I don't recall seeing this post. But now that I have I must say I am sorry if I have offended. My intent was not to take away individuality. I hoped I was demonstrating the multifaceted nature of consciousness. I believe consciousness is a reflection of the spirit, or soul. For me this certifies individuality. It would likely be impossible for two people to be alike except in the case of twins. But, even they are individuals. As far as Jung goes the collective unconscious just influences our thinking. It may be the only part of humans that is "instinctual". It is also part of our multifaceted consciousness. Discussion like these light me up.

I guess my problem may be the feeling I have that I should explain what I have learned. Perhaps, I should not do that any longer. Rather, wait for questioners.
 
Don't worry about offending me.
I never take offence at anything written on a forum and in your case nothing you have posted is in any way offensive.
Be yourself, as I do.
 
Warrigal said:
Don't worry about offending me.
I never take offence at anything written on a forum and in your case nothing you have posted is in any way offensive.
Be yourself, as I do.
Click to expand...
I want to apologize also for not paying enough attention to your education and background. You know about alcoholism and 12 step programs, probably more than I do. I liked what you said because it made me think about my defects. I can see that my self esteem has been tied up in my attempts to "prove the truth". When people argue with me I push back, force my definitions into the discussion. There are no coincidences. God brought me here for a reason. It is because I asked him to help me remove my character defects.

Did you see this in me? Whether you did or not your demeanor and patience allowed me to figure this out. Thank you so much. Now I know something more about me. In my AA group we where talking about the 6th step yesterday. This has to do also with the 4th and 5th step and the 7th steps. I will be thanking God about this for some time. When I tell my sponsor about this he will likely tell me to shut up and listen. Did I tell you that my sponsor is an Apache Sun Dancer? He was our water pourer in the sweat lodge.
I need to shut up. Now I get to practice what I have learned. This should be interesting.
 
Warrigal said:
I saw a lot of myself in you. The world is interesting because you are in it. I enjoy our conversations.
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I feel the same way. How do we become friends? If you are willing? The forum asked me how many friends I have made. None yet. I, for the life of me, cannot figure out how to do things here. I had an idea for a new stream. I tried to follow it, but then I end up in no man's land. I am not a good computer guy until I have had a lot of experience with a given system. Anywho, thanks again.
 
There is somewhere that you can request to become friends with another poster. I have never bothered because I think it is unnecessary. You can pm another member and it is through this mechanism that I have become friends with several like minded people. I have had friends requests and always agree, because why wouldn't I?

As an exercise I will look for the mechanism and if I am successful you will receive a notification on the top menu bar.
 
Warrigal said:
OK. Found it under Settings. You should ow have notification of a Friends request. You have to accept (or not).
Click to expand...
Thank you. Let's take another stab at self, soul and consciousness. I can't help but think that self and soul are one and the same. How is the definition of soul different from that of self. Or, what is your definition of self and soul. I like to think I have studied consciousness enough to have a picture of it's anatomy. Yet, my bias may get in the way.

If I consider consciousness as something evolved I would begin at the bottom of our early oceans. Millions of years ago there were extremeophiles, archea, some forms of bacteria, living in the darkness, perhaps in the extremes of hot or cold. They might have lived next to volcanic vents. Part of the key to consciousness is temperature variation. So extremophiles like the single cell archea, living next to vents would have variations in light and temperature changing around them. They would have begun developing organels which were likely responsive to heat and light variations, which changed from moment to moment. To the extent that these cells became adaptive, causing the cell to offer a different side to the heat, or attempt movement toward the light, they could be said to be exercising a form of choice. This could be considered rudamentary consciousness. So consciousness may have begun with a single cell.

Bacteria were a group of single cells. They might have evolved some sort of collective response where, as they reproduced they gained new adaptive capability that was not necessarily the same even from cell to cell. Bacteria might have been able to develop a kind of collective consciousness, similar to a bee hive.

No matter how you say it, consciousness appears to have evolved as a tool of survival. If my hypothesizing is correct then consciousness may have been prior to both self and soul. This is only because we think of self and soul as belonging to larger animals in general. Early man might have thrown in the category of spirit. This would have been something like, all the attributes of a thing when combined to create its living essence. Native Americans have this belief. This is not pantheism as some describe it because Native Americans believe in one God. But, they believe that everything has a spirit and should be treated as if it is sacred.

Need to stop here, get responses?
 

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