Active shooter at Fort Hood Texas

There have been many attempts to discredit Australia's gun laws, usually by going off into another area like rape or robbery. The gun laws were about the stopping of death by guns. its done its job, its still doing its job.
Is the job finished? no, its never finished and needs to be constantly watched for the nutty obsessed to find a way to circumvent laws.
If what happened in america stayed in america i'd be happy, but the obsession with gun violence is exported to all countries around the world.
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Well, whatever, but one thing I know for sure, and that is our heads are NOT any bigger than any other peoples. It's about passing the buck, or putting down someone else to try and make yourself look better.

Like I said before, if you think you are so perfect you feel you can look down on someone else, well, good, bloody luck with that!
 
nwlady said:
Yeah, what's up with that, putting down America, when we seem to be one of the leaders in helping other countries? I mean don't a lot of countries call on us for help? It's like America sucks but let's use them for what we can get out of them? America is made up of people from all Nations, isn't that pretty much true? Maybe that is what makes us as strong as we are. Are other countries jealous? Heck if I know. I'm damn sure that America has done a lot for others though. I mean, maybe I should go spend some time just researching how many times America has gone in to help other countries. Maybe we shouldn't, I don't like the fact we've lost so many lives helping others. I know too, we are not the only country that helps others, not saying that.

I guess I'm really saying who can cast the first stone?? Are you so perfect you can look down on the US? I guess I better get into studying other countries and how they are operating.
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Who is putting America down? Speaking only for myself, I can't understand a situation where your children, your soldiers and innocent people in mall and movie theatres are being gunned down en masse and the idea that something could be down to improve the situation is a taboo subject. That's what I think is insane, the unwillingness to address a very serious problem.

This topic has little to do with appreciating (or not) America's overseas military actions. We have our own soldiers in many of the same conflicts. I can't remember any massacres committed by veterans although sadly a number have shot themselves.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Who is putting America down? Speaking only for myself, I can't understand a situation where your children, your soldiers and innocent people in mall and movie theatres are being gunned down en masse and the idea that something could be down to improve the situation is a taboo subject. That's what I think is insane, the unwillingness to address a very serious problem.

This topic has little to do with appreciating (or not) America's overseas military actions. We have our own soldiers in many of the same conflicts. I can't remember any massacres committed by veterans although sadly a number have shot themselves.
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Don't you have enough to deal with in your own country? I don't get why you are so busy trying to fix ours?? I think if everyone would take care of their own backyard first, then branch out and try to help others. I think the same for America. We need to work on our own issues before we go out trying to fix others.
 
Max, Thank you for that information. I agree that as a country, there are several actions we could implement, as suggested above, without having to give up guns altogether. Civilians have no need of automatic weaponry. I grew up hunting, and I never saw anyone hunt with anything automatic. I also grew up with hand guns, and was taught how to use them for protection. A revolver was all that was needed.

Although, we were not the first or only country with these problems. A lot of our violence has come from the many countries to our south. Many brought their own automatic weapons into this country. If our government would strengthen our border control, and do more background checks on the many we let just walk in, that would be a start.

Although I love my country, I don't like the way we've come to think of ourselves as the saviors of the world. It is one thing to go and "help" another country, but we have pushed our way into situations without an invitation too many times. And people wonder why these countries don't "like" us.

From what I can see of our influence in the middle east, we haven't fixed their many centuries of conflict. OIL had a lot to do with gaining our "support".

If we would bring our forces home and let them work at our own problems, things might show some progress. And maybe so many of our servicemen wouldn't be dealing with PTS, much less need drugs for depression. :hide:
 
I think if everyone would take care of their own backyard first, then branch out and try to help others.
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That's what we are trying to say. In our backyard we have made a difference. It wasn't easy and there was resistance to the measures but the benefits have been measurable.

Our solution is not necessarily your solution but for heaven's sake, why aren't you looking for a solution that will work for you? From this distance it looks like nothing much is happening about working on this issue. It looks like stalemate, unless you think everyone going out and buying more firearms is a solution. in which case I say, "God help America".

PS This is why I usually prefer to raise issues like this one in Speakers' Corner. It is too upsetting for many members to talk about.
 
Back to the fact that these mass shootings are done by mentally ill people who are under the influence of prescription anti-physchotic, anti-depressant drugs which cause violent behavior and homicidal/suicidal tendencies...what's unfortunate is although most of Texas has the right to concealed carry, the military at this facility are not permitted to protect themselves, regardless of the previous shootings there.

• Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

• Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

• Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

• Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

• Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

• Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

• Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

• Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
• A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

• Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

• A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

• Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

• TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

• Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

• James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

• Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

• Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

• Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

• Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

• Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

• Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

• Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

• Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

• Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

• Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

• Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

• Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

• Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

• Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

• Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

• Woody __, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

• A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

• Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

• Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazepine.

• Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

• Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

• Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

• Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.
Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

• What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?
• What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado? (ZOLOFT)
• What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?
• What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct?



Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039752_ma...#ixzz2fHaNGdNo



The media likes to downplay the severe effects of these psychiatric drugs, because it is not in the best financial interests of the pharmaceutical companies, and in the end, it's all about the money...http://www.prisonplanet.com/media-bu...y-shooter.html
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Dame Warrigal said:
That's what we are trying to say. In our backyard we have made a difference. It wasn't easy and there was resistance to the measures but the benefits have been measurable.

Our solution is not necessarily your solution but for heaven's sake, why aren't you looking for a solution that will work for you? From this distance it looks like nothing much is happening about working on this issue. It looks like stalemate, unless you think everyone going out and buying more firearms is a solution. in which case I say, "God help America".

PS This is why I usually prefer to raise issues like this one in Speakers' Corner. It is too upsetting for many members to talk about.
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Oh give me a break WG, you can't tell me Australia has it all together. Geez.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
From this distance it looks like nothing much is happening about working on this issue. It looks like stalemate, unless you think everyone going out and buying more firearms is a solution. in which case I say, "God help America".

PS This is why I usually prefer to raise issues like this one in Speakers' Corner. It is too upsetting for many members to talk about.
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One solution would be to stop putting our kids on prescription drugs like Ritalin when they are in grade school, and exhibiting normal behaviors. Also, not to have them graduate to other dangerous anti-depressant drugs when they're teens and adults.

However, the pharmaceutical corporations are big business, supported by government interests, so that won't be happening any time soon.

Other than that, we need to keep these guns out of the hands of criminals, not to disarm responsible law-abiding American citizens. If it means having more people who are trained and comfortable with the use of weapons carrying them to avoid tragedies like this, than so be it.

It's not upsetting for me at all to talk about, but what can be upsetting at times is people bringing up these issues to drive in their opinions and views, while having a deaf ear to what others of opposing views are saying.

There have been many cases of good citizens protecting their families and property with legal firearms, and not acknowledging that is hiding one's head in the sand. Not acknowledging that most of these shooters were on prescription drugs for mental illness, does not assist in a solution either, by those in the US or other countries.

It's easy to blame only the guns, and want to get rid of them all, but in places like Chicago, where most of the shootings are done by street gangs/criminals, either targeting each other or innocent victims, makes it hard to compare the US to other countries. And it's a fact that those places with the strictest gun laws, are the areas with most of the crimes.
 
SeaBreeze said:
Back to the fact that these mass shootings are done by mentally ill people who are under the influence of prescription anti-physchotic, anti-depressant drugs which cause violent behavior and homicidal/suicidal tendencies...what's unfortunate is although most of Texas has the right to concealed carry, the military at this facility are not permitted to protect themselves, regardless of the previous shootings there.
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SeaBreeze, I've seen that list before and it is one person's testimony before a Bipartisan Task Force on Gun Violence Prevention and Children’s Safety in Connecticut. By following that lead, I see that there is a website that reports on the findings of this group.

It may be interesting to read them. The latest, from March last year are

[h=2]March 5, 2013
Working Groups Release Proposals ​
[/h]

No non Americans had input into these proposals as far as I know and the focus in not exclusively on mental illness but it is certainly addressed.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Who is putting America down? Speaking only for myself, I can't understand a situation where your children, your soldiers and innocent people in mall and movie theatres are being gunned down en masse and the idea that something could be down to improve the situation is a taboo subject. That's what I think is insane, the unwillingness to address a very serious problem.

This topic has little to do with appreciating (or not) America's overseas military actions. We have our own soldiers in many of the same conflicts. I can't remember any massacres committed by veterans although sadly a number have shot themselves.
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Warri, I believe that most Americans ARE concerned about the mass shootings; but we seem to have very little say in what the government chooses to deal with anymore. Often times, it seems like the criminals are protected, at least the big enough ones. Law enforcement is used to target citizens (often innocent ones), while the real Bad Guys get away with whatever they want. you hardly ever hear of a big-time criminal being put in prison anymore; just the small time ones.
As for the mental illness part; that remains to be addressed.
Like That Guy stated, when our soldiers are sent to hell, they often bring it back with them. This is nothing new, soldier from the time of WW1 have come home with PTSD from combat; it simply wasn't called that back then, it was only known as "battle fatigue", not a very accurate title.
Equally, we have always had the mentally ill with us, and like you say, they can't help being sick, and unable to think reasonably. (They are, however, being treated with modern drugs that have been shown to have dangerous side effects now days. So this could explain part of the problem.)

Still ...... We have not always had these horrendous shootings, even though we always were allowed to have guns. It is not just that there are the semi-automatic weapons now, there were machine guns back in the days of Bonnie and Clyde, and Al Capone. Therefore; something else is different now, and it is something that has started fairly recently.
Stories of mind control float around the internet, and several of the shooters have even spoken of something like this.
Since they always ending up "suicided", or hopelessly crazy/drugged afterwards; it is pretty hard to determine exactly WHAT is going on. Information is hushed up, things that should be public, are not disclosed.

So, yes, we want to know what is going on, and WHY, and we want it stopped. We never know what tragedy will strike next, or where.
 
Like That Guy stated, when our soldiers are sent to hell, they often bring it back with them. This is nothing new, soldier from the time of WW1 have come home with PTSD from combat; it simply wasn't called that back then, it was only known as "battle fatigue", not a very accurate title.
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You're not telling us in Oz anything that we don't already know. We were engaged in WWI from 1915 to the end, and WWII from 1939 to 1945. Our soldiers were in the thick of it in Africa, Turkey, France, Belgium, the Pacific including PNG and Burma. Since then they have served in Korea, Malaya, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and other conflicts. We missed the Falklands war, but not much else. We know all about shell shock, war fatigue, agent orange and PTSD but all of that is a side issue. None of ours have become mass murderers with automatic weapons.

I don't know why our two countries have such different outcomes in terms of gun deaths. Isn't it worth searching for an answer to that question? For your sake, not ours.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
If you mean perfect, then no. But we have improved the situation nationally.
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So now Australia is making improvements but the US isn't. You know, I guess it's just like one person telling another what they should do. When I see your life, as being something I want to mirror, then I may listen. I suppose my problem here is I don't know you, and I don't know Australian Government. But what I do know, is I love my country, the good, bad, and the ugly, I wouldn't trade it for another. And if I hear anyone even slightly try to put it down, I will stand by it, because that's just the way I am.
 
and from what I've read, and also posted, there isn't a huge difference WG. I'm sorry, but you are not an American. You can't know the whole deal unless you are. It's another of those "until you've walked in our shoes". Like I implied before, I am guessing you have plenty to deal with in Austrailia, so I don't really "get" why you are so fired up to "help" the US? Can you tell me why?
 
When other countries quit worrying about the welfare of America, we better kiss our behinds good by. And when we as a country get to the point of not caring what the rest of the world thinks of us or our deeds, we will have already kissed our behinds good by.
 
If you read back Ina, you will see that this isn't about caring for America, this is about putting America and American's down. I'm seeing a lot of this on the internet, which is all I really have access to. I'm not going to stand by and let anyone put America down.

and please don't make me go back and copy and paste, just read it. If you don't see what I see, well, we can agree to disagree.
 
nwlady said:
If you read back Ina, you will see that this isn't about caring for America, this is about putting America and American's down. I'm seeing a lot of this on the internet, which is all I really have access to. I'm not going to stand by and let anyone put America down.
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I'm sorry that you see it this way NWLady. In my mind it is about loss of life.
In other parts of the world children's lives are lost due to starvation and disease.
I see that as something that needs people working towards a solution too.

I'm really not trying to put America and Americans down.
Just shaking my head at the apparent lack of action.
I don't understand it at all.

If I'm wrong and you are taking action and doing some good in this area, I'd love to hear about it.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
I'm sorry that you see it this way NWLady. In my mind it is about loss of life.
In other parts of the world children's lives are lost due to starvation and disease.
I see that as something that needs people working towards a solution too.

I'm really not trying to put America and Americans down.
Just shaking my head at the apparent lack of action.
I don't understand it at all.

If I'm wrong and you are taking action and doing some good in this area, I'd love to hear about it.
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That's it, you see an "apparent lack of action" rather than the good that is being done. I know without looking that there is action being taken to remedy our imperfections. I for one American don't need your criticisms of how we are doing in our country, not until I see perfection in yours. You don't want to listen to what I am saying, that's apparent, so I won't spend any more time here. I know you are wrong, and that is enough for me.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
You're not telling us in Oz anything that we don't already know. We were engaged in WWI from 1915 to the end, and WWII from 1939 to 1945. Our soldiers were in the thick of it in Africa, Turkey, France, Belgium, the Pacific including PNG and Burma. Since then they have served in Korea, Malaya, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and other conflicts. We missed the Falklands war, but not much else. We know all about shell shock, war fatigue, agent orange and PTSD but all of that is a side issue. None of ours have become mass murderers with automatic weapons.

I don't know why our two countries have such different outcomes in terms of gun deaths. Isn't it worth searching for an answer to that question? For your sake, not ours.
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This is exactly the point that I was trying to make, Warri. Our soldiers have been all those places as well, and come home with PTSD and all the rest, all these many years (just like your soldiers), and they didn't go out and become mass murderers before, either. This is a recent thing that is happening here in America.

The government seems to only have one answer, and that is to enforce gun control on everyone. If there weren't so many illegal gun owners here, doing that might have helped; but now, that would only make the victims even more helpless when something like this happens. If more people had been armed on the post at Ft. Hood, the shooter would have either not tried to go on the rampage, or been shot immediately, before he was able to kill people.

Personally, I do believe that a good many of these are what is called "false-flag events", and there is a whole hidden agenda that is going on under the disguise of being a random attack. If you care to read some of the information about these events, you will see that there is actually a lot of evidence showing that what is presented in the news is not what actually happened.
If you are open to looking at this, I will start a topic in SC about it. If not, I won't.
 
How many of you have actually been shot at? Well I have by my neighbor who is a retired Marine. Early one morning I was running down the street like I did every morning by his house, and in a drunken stupor he doesn't recognize me and decides I am doing something illegal and gets his gun and fires over my head . Yes he fired over my head, but he was also drunk. I am not the only one that this has happened to. Though he has been reported he simply gets a slap on the wrist. No one wants to violate his 2nd amendment rights. He suffers from acute alcoholism and has no business IMO to own a gun. He has lost his license to drive a car for DUIs, yet he is allowed to own a loaded gun??

I think that those of us who live in this country have to realize this is a serious problem which is very complicated. However, we require people to get a license to drive a car, and we require the car to be registered and licensed. People are required to update their license on a regular basis. When statistics came out on the number of accidents caused by people under the age of 18 many states enacted laws to help correct this problem, with restrictions on drivers under the age of 18. How can we do any less with guns. I for one want to know that my so called law abiding neighbors with a gun have: registered it, proven they know how to handle one, are truly law abiding, and keeps it in good operating condition. If we do it for cars in this country we can and should do it for guns. No it will not keep guns out of the hands of criminals, but it is a first step. We have to reach for a balance, will we achieve it of course not, but neither will we achieve it by doing nothing. If it saves one life it is worth it. IMHO it is plain common sense.
 
Judi, it sounds like your neighbor should not be allowed to legally own a weapon. If he has had DUI convictions, that is a felony. Anyone who has been convicted of a felony loses their right to own a gun legally, and also their right to vote; according to law.
I think that background checks are mandatory for a person to buy a gun; so that should be stopping people from buying weapons; but since there are still private sales, it is pretty easy for anyone to find an illegal weapon. So, even if they took whatever weapons he has, it would not be hard for him to find more and own them illegally.

I believe that we need to focus on the illegal weapons sold, and not the legal ones. If we can stop the illegal gun trafficking, we will also stop at least some of the gun-involved deaths.
 
Judi.D said:
How many of you have actually been shot at? Well I have by my neighbor who is a retired Marine. Early one morning I was running down the street like I did every morning by his house, and in a drunken stupor he doesn't recognize me and decides I am doing something illegal and gets his gun and fires over my head . Yes he fired over my head, but he was also drunk. I am not the only one that this has happened to. Though he has been reported he simply gets a slap on the wrist. No one wants to violate his 2nd amendment rights. He suffers from acute alcoholism and has no business IMO to own a gun. He has lost his license to drive a car for DUIs, yet he is allowed to own a loaded gun??

I think that those of us who live in this country have to realize this is a serious problem which is very complicated. However, we require people to get a license to drive a car, and we require the car to be registered and licensed. People are required to update their license on a regular basis. When statistics came out on the number of accidents caused by people under the age of 18 many states enacted laws to help correct this problem, with restrictions on drivers under the age of 18. How can we do any less with guns. I for one want to know that my so called law abiding neighbors with a gun have: registered it, proven they know how to handle one, are truly law abiding, and keeps it in good operating condition. If we do it for cars in this country we can and should do it for guns. No it will not keep guns out of the hands of criminals, but it is a first step. We have to reach for a balance, will we achieve it of course not, but neither will we achieve it by doing nothing. If it saves one life it is worth it. IMHO it is plain common sense.
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I feel the same, Judi, most on here know my thoughts on gun control, but as long as people put 'their rights' above human lives these tragedies will continue.

I also think that any country should learn from the successes, be it gun control or whatever, of other countries, its not a matter of being less patriotic, as Judi said...it
is just common sense. I think our country is just about evenly divided on the gun control subject, its the same on most issues we're facing...we are divided right down the middle of the two parties.
 

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