Active shooter at Fort Hood Texas

All this talk of guns reminds me of sportsmen, the real reason for guns.
 

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Yeah, in our early days we used to club each other.
 

drifter said:
Yeah, in our early days we used to club each other.
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Take away the guns and I'm betting we'll arm ourselves with clubs again, or whatever. I still have a great, cast-iron skillet. Hey batter, batter, swing!!

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yes lets address sportsmen, I'm glad you brought that up.

Out of all the guns sold and used in the US 95% are used in target shooting, and out of the trillion or so rounds fired less than 3 % of that is used for hunting.
Lets go further, without the sportsmen dollars the deer, elk, and game would be decimated. Millions and millions of dollars are donated by those sportsmen to protect, buy and preserve wetlands that would ordinarily be destroyed for the pitiful little arm chair quarter backs that denigrate hunting. Thousands of man hours are donated by these same sportsmen to clean up oil spills caused by the need for gas to get to Starbucks. Many thousands more donated hours to gun safety programs for hunting, and self defense. Today the very game herds so anthropomorphized is this tripe is not only an inaccurate it begs the question,---What have you done to help nature?
 
All these statistics I have heard before and I suspect they have been run through the ARA mill to make them sound feasible, like the less crime in areas where anyone who can tie his own shoes can carry a gun.l
 
Getting back to the shooter at fort Hood. Another thing that the military personal should be thanked for that is given very little thought. The malaria medicine is a good example. We should thank those people for taking the drug, so they wouldn't bring malaria back to the US with them. This also applies to antibiotics in the case of STDs
 
yes drifter , but I think you mean NRA, and I am an NRA plant , WATCH out I'm standing behind you!!!!!!! So what have you done for Nature and preservation Mr. Drifter?
 
rt3 said:
yes drifter , but I think you mean NRA, and I am an NRA plant , WATCH out I'm standing behind you!!!!!!! So what have you done for Nature and preservation Mr. Drifter?
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Careful how you answer,Drifter.
They are always right no ands or buts about it.
 
Davey -- glad to see you made it. Maybe you can explain. Drifter accepts the statistics because he cant refute them, and says they are rigged. Of course if they were all over the internet they would have been refuted many times. So what is it that Drifter isn't getting?
 
The military reports that I want to read are the ones, involve the use of psychotic tropic drugs, and whats that one that causes (anthrax?) the cow disease, and the sheep stuff at Dugway proving grounds during the 70s.
 
Yes, thank you, I did mean NRA, and I must confesss, I get many of these acronmies mixed up, when I'm coming off the top of my head. Let's see, what was the question .. oh, yes, What have I done, oh, yes, So what have you done for Nature and preservation Mr. Drifter?? Well, not much to tell the truth. I'm not sur3e what counts toward answering your question. I have owned weapons since I was twelve years old, when my dad gave me an old Stevens single shot. My next gun was a marlin 39A, a lever action 22. Before entering military service I bought a 30/30 carbine. Aftewards, I bought several rifles, three shotguns and a couple of revolvers over a short period of time. From 1959 until 1995 I bout a hunting license and for several years, a Colorado licence so I could hunt with a relative in Colorado Springs. I was a long time suscriber to Texas Parks and Wildlife and to the National Wildlife Federation Magazine. Looking at this bit I have written here, I don't guess I have a leg to stand on. I guess I haven't done anything for nature or the environment or done any good anywhere, unless you count that cap I bought from the park store down in the Big Bend National Park or that one I got in the Pecos Wildnerness Area that was supposed to benefit wildlife. So Arkansas, I guess I'd have to look you in the eye, if I could, and say, "Actually, nothing, not much at the best. I fear I am found wanting.
 
I've been reading this discussion from the sidelines with much interest and have kept silent because the arguments have been largely confined to internal American issues. This morning I heard a radio report about the army shooter Ivan Lopez and although I can't yet produce a transcript, an article republished from the Washington Post covers much the same territory.

Talking about dealing with mental health issues in the military :

"The military is reliant on self, focused on the other, mission first, stop whining, suck it up," Van Dahlen said. ''It's only in the last 10 years that the military, to its credit, started to think about, OK, we had better focus on taking care of our mental-health needs or we are going to be in trouble."

Growing alarm about suicides and violence within the military has prompted unprecedented efforts to beef up systems to help soldiers cope with multiple deployments and adjust to life after war. The Army has launched the largest-ever study of mental-health risk and resilience among military personnel, and set up a $US65 million facility dedicated to treating traumatic brain injury, post-traumatic stress disorder and other psychological problems.

The military also has started deploying psychiatrists and counsellors to serve alongside soldiers in war zones and conducts therapy sessions for returned soldiers and their families.

Despite these efforts, there have been hundreds of active-duty suicides since 2011, according to figures from the Army and non-profit groups. Some advocates believe the military lacks adequate funding to identify and treat mental issues and that many of the diagnostic tools available are outdated and inadequate.

For example, post-traumatic stress disorder is diagnosed using a list of questions.
"Imagine going to your doctor because you think you have a broken leg and your doctor asks 20 questions," said retired General Peter Chiarelli, a former Army vice chief of staff. "And then your doctor says, 'You don't have a broken leg. You can go home.' You'd say, 'Aren't you going to X-ray my leg?' That's how we diagnose PTS."

The military, he said, needed to fund research aimed at developing more advanced tools, including brain-imaging scans and blood tests. General Chiarelli also said the military's efforts to hire more clinicians to diagnose and treat post-traumatic stress had been impeded by an overall national shortage. That, in turn, has led to an over-reliance on prescription drugs instead of more time-consuming treatments.

Nonetheless, some Army officials say, the resources provided at installations such as Fort Hood are quite substantial. But the demand for them is high. Fort Hood, and the Darnall Army Medical Centre there, provides psychiatrists, psychologists and family-life chaplains to help people with anxiety, depression and post-traumatic stress.

"Could we use more? There's always a need for more, especially after 12 years at war," said a mental health professional at Fort Hood.

Washington Post

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/fort-ho...e-spotlight-20140406-zqrg8.html#ixzz2y9DXzmBO
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The radio report indicated that the current problem is only the tip of the iceberg and that there will be many, many more cases of PTSD and suicides of returning servicemen and women very soon. Given that gun control is clearly not an option on the table, how willing are the American people to fund the vets for the treatment that they need ? Will they be prepared to vote against easing the tax liabilities of the very rich and big businesses and divert those funds to caring for the vets? Will they be willing to pay a little more themselves to provide good mental health services for everyone, not just the vets ?
 
I don't have any answers. It's been a long time since I served in the military. Back then I thought the military did a very good job doing what they did with what they had to do with. I expect the same is true now. These soldiers pay a bigger price than any who have gone before, certainly before Viet Nam. Multiple deployments to combat zones. The medical objectives were first and foremost to get the soldiers well and fit to return to their units. Back in the day, mental problems were a career ending condition. You just didn't mention them. Today with an enemy using these UEDs that could blow a vehicle, even an armored vehicle, to bits with everything in it, even deployments behind lines meant extreme danger. The moto gets to be, Deploy them till they're dead. Add to this, leaving a family back stateside with not enough money to live on, ongoing problems a soldier can't help with, and pressure can build. What's the answer I don't know but these are some things the Army and the Congress can look at. Sometime a soldier goes to sickbay and can't get an answer immediately or any help. Some of it may just be the system, and some because the system is stuck in it's ways. Then there are some things we'll never be able to stop. Much of the time the Congress, the government merely gives lip service.
 
nwlady said:
Take away the guns and I'm betting we'll arm ourselves with clubs again, or whatever. I still have a great, cast-iron skillet. Hey batter, batter, swing!!
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Once, in my veterans group, the question was asked, "What weapon are you?" The best answer: a stick.
 
sounds like you were in back when the Draft was still going Drifter, I think now its a volunteer army.
 
Volunteer or draft,you're STILL going to get shot at. Only different today is the volunteers today get more benefits then the draftees ever got and they suffered more in battle then todays soldiers.
 
Yes there was a draft. My next door neighbor was drafted and killed early. I still remember the shock I felt on learning of his death after only a few months. I volunteered hoping to get a better deal.
 

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