Afghanistan Is Your Fault

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Alligatorob

Alligatorob

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Northern Utah, transplanted from Florida/Louisiana
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/afghanistan-your-fault/619769/

Unfortunately too much truth to this...

We are not very good at really considering the longer term consequences of our actions; in a democracy that can lead to problems. And it has all too often. I would like to say that we rely on our elected leaders and the experts they hire to warn us, but that seems to keep us from voting for them. We like to be told what we want to hear...

I disagree with the author on Vietnam, I believe that was also a problem of giving voters what they wanted, when they wanted it. He is right that the government covered up too much then, but in the end I think the result would have been much the same, even with more openness. I remember that time and we pretty much knew what was going on, at higher level anyway. I also remember having exactly this same discussion back then...
 

I believe that The Afghanis are responsible for the problems in their own nation. The US is not good at nation building , nor international intervention. In fact, we suck at it. Remember the bright shining star of the democratic, peaceful, Eden of post war Iraq. Our support of religious fanatics, opposing the USSR, and our "9-11" zealousness led us into the quagmire of Afghanistan, and our pride kept us there. The solution of Afghanistan will come from Afghanistan and not from Washington.
 
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The mess in Afghanistan is creating more refugees.

As has our destruction of Iraq and Syria.

As has our involvement in Vietnam.

As has our actions in Central America and Chile.

The U.S. is great at creating messes.

And lousy at cleaning them up.

But we're great at complaining about refugees and immigrants.

That we're responsible for.
 
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fuzzybuddy said:
I believe that The Afghanis are responsible for the problems in their own nation. The US is not good at nation building , nor international intervention. In fact, we suck at it. Remember the bright shining star of the democratic, peaceful, Eden of post war Iraq. Our support of religious fanatics, opposing the USSR, and our "9-11" zealousness led us into the quagmire of Afghanistan, and our pride kept us there. The solution of Afghanistan will come from Afghanistan and not from Washington.
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Amen!

If another nation asks for assistance we should do what we can to assist them but the rest should be up to them.

Sweep in front of your own door. - German Proverb
 
Gaer said:
It's not that we left. It's the WAY we left. Devastating!
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Other than years ago what would have been the right way to leave?

Seems like a no win situation to me.

Reminds me of a debate I heard once during the Vietnam war, between an advocate of the war and one for withdrawal. The pro-war guy asked the question: "How can we leave now?". The answer was an emphatic: "In boats!!" I get both sides, once the mess was made there seemed no good way to end it.

As Thomas Jefferson said about slavery, "We have the wolf by the ears; and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go". I believe the best thing is not to get involved in the first place.
 
We spent some four trillion dollars, thousands of American lives, millions of Afghani and Iraqi civilian lives, to go after one terrorist. It doesn't seem like to most cost effective way to go about it.

The U.S. deposed democratically elected president of Chile, Salvador Allende, and installed the brutal dictator, General Augusto Pinochet on September 11, 1973. I wonder if the Bin Laden chose September 11th to attack us for that reason or if it was just a coincidence.
 
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oldiebutgoody said:
It will happen again. This I guarantee. Not because these wars are fought to promote democracy as you are told. But because they are designed to enrich the wealthy elites. They will stop only when people realize that this is precisely why they are fought.
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Yep, one has to look no further than Halliburton. $$$$$ all about $$$$$
 
Irwin said:
We spent some four trillion dollars, thousands of American lives, millions of Afghani and Iraqi civilian lives, to go after one terrorist. It doesn't seem like to most cost effective way to go about it.

The U.S. deposed democratically elected president of Chile, Salvador Allende, and installed the brutal dictator, General Augusto Pinochet on September 11, 1973. I wonder if the Bin Laden chose September 11th to attack us for that reason or if it was just a coincidence.
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Your numbers are a little inflated, but that's not the point. Bin Laden wasn't even in Afghanistan. He had left before we got there and that's when we should have left. No one home, you leave.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
Too watch the chaos on the news the other night was devastating. How do you think it should have been handled Gaer?
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To One eyed Diva: I was hoping you would start a new thread about YOUR reflections about what is happening.
You have closer feelings about this than any other person on the Forum.
I'd love to know your personal feelings. Are you scared for the women?
 
Troops, where are the American Troops?
Mellowyellow posted two pictures of troops, one is Brits, not sure who the other troops.

Getting the Taliban to wander around without their weapons will not happen.
Weapons have been a part of their culture for centuries.
Of course, our state dept doesn't know that, not important

Men with heavy arms makes me nervous.
There not supposed to get drunk 🤫
 
Gaer said:
To One eyed Diva: I was hoping you would start a new thread about YOUR reflections about what is happening.
You have closer feelings about this than any other person on the Forum.
I'd love to know your personal feelings. Are you scared for the women?
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I am very scared for the girls, women and ALL of the innocents in this situation Gaer. I almost cried when I saw what was happening after the Taliban marauded those areas. The Taliban are going against what we are taught as Muslims; the world sees this and judges the rest of us by them! Islam forbids the killing of innocents.
"Islam is portrayed as a religion of “terror” and “killing”, yet this is just one of the most widely held misconceptions about Islam. Allah Almighty states unambiguously in the Quran (what means): "Nor take life -- which Allah has made sacred -- except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand retaliation or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life, for he is helped (by the Law)." [Quran 17:33]"
Full article: https://www.islamweb.net/en/article/113432/islam-does-not-tolerate-the-killing-of-innocents
And according to Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) teachings he said "Harm no one so that no one will harm you".

While I wouldn't want to see the U.S. stay in Afghanistan any longer, I don't like what happened after we withdrew our troops. Yes...they should have sent in those troops to help our people in the U.S. Embassy get out safely and yes the Afghan citizens who were of help to the U.S. with acts of courage (because I'm sure they risked their lives to do so), should also receive safe passage. I know it's a reality of war but I hate the term "collateral damage" almost as much as I hate the dumb term "friendly fire". Innocent people who have nothing to do with government, the military nor are they Taliban sympathizers will be hurt, maybe killed during this siege...this includes women, children...little babies. Their lives have been turned upside down. It's heartbreaking to me! I think this is damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
 
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OneEyedDiva said:
I am very scared for the girls, women and ALL of the innocents in this situation Gaer. I almost cried when I saw what was happening after the Taliban swooped through those areas. The Taliban are going against what we are taught as Muslims; the world sees this and judges the rest of us by them! Islam forbids the killing of innocents.
"Islam is portrayed as a religion of “terror” and “killing”, yet this is just one of the most widely held misconceptions about Islam. Allah Almighty states unambiguously in the Quran (what means): "Nor take life -- which Allah has made sacred -- except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand retaliation or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life, for he is helped (by the Law)." [Quran 17:33]" Full article: https://www.islamweb.net/en/article/113432/islam-does-not-tolerate-the-killing-of-innocents
And according to Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) teachings he said "Harm no one so that no one will harm you".

While I wouldn't want to see the U.S. stay in Afghanistan any longer, I don't like what happened after we withdrew our troops. Yes...they should have sent in those troops to help our people in the U.S. Embassy get out safely and yes the Afghan citizens who were of help to the U.S. with acts of courage, because I'm sure they risked their lives to do so, should also receive safe passage. I know it's a reality of war but I hate the term "collateral damage" almost as much as I hate the dumb term "friendly fire". Innocent people who have nothing to do with government, the military nor are they Taliban sympathizers will be hurt, maybe killed during this siege...this includes women, children...little babies. Their lives have been turned upside down. It's heartbreaking to me! I think this is damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
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Wow! Thank you for stating that! Your words makes my soul tremble! My prayers are for the women and girls.
Your religion, and most religions, are much the same, only different wording. All roads lead to the Being. Every soul knows right from wrong.
I think we are all feeling much the same watching what is happening in Afghanistan. So terribly botched!
I'm sending you calm and blessings.
 
Gaer said:
Wow! Thank you for stating that! Your words makes my soul tremble! My prayers are for the women and girls.
Your religion, and most religions, are much the same, only different wording. All roads lead to the Being. Every soul knows right from wrong.
I think we are all feeling much the same watching what is happening in Afghanistan. So terribly botched!
I'm sending you calm and blessings.
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Thank you so much Gaer. "Your words makes my soul tremble!" Wow...that's deep!!! You are right. Many of the religions have the same principles. I have a good friend who's Buddhist and she tells me about some of it's calming affects on her thinking and being.
 
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