AI (artificial intelligence)

Amazing what happens on forums ain't it :D

For instance people get permanently banned from the forum and reappear under another name, and yep I know this for a fact. Poor Aunt Marg, I still miss her, alas a victim never to return.

Could Vaida be yet another here to think they can pull our legs. Lots of stretched legs here.
 

OldFeller said:
I think AI (Artificial intelligence) is a marketing buzzword.

I see it a lot and it's usually shown with images that suggest things like robots.

I don't doubt it is a more intelligent search engine. But it's only as good as the programmers who work on it. Which as we should consider are not the majority of programmers out there.

So I think it will be compartmentalized into areas of endeavor and that the quality of how it works will rely heavily on how well paid and qualified the level of programmers will be for each goal trying to be achieved.

Another way to say it is that the implications of all the press coverage and all the hype are that it will be far reaching and bug free. But really it's driven by price and return on investment factors.

I'm holding onto the fact that it's all hype and I'm waiting to see what they can actually do with it in real rollout.
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Hey OldFeller,
I can see how you got to your view and if we only consider the near future, I don't disagree too much. However, looking into the future even 20 years from now, I think we will be shocked. New technologies sometimes have explosive and unimagined development with unbelievable results. As a retired engineer with some experience with robotics and AI, I am more in tune with Elon Musk's warning about an existential danger. The problem is that the programmers for AI don't really have that much to do with the robot's capabilities. The programmer writes software that simply mimics the human brain and can modify itself (learn), test the results and then change it's behaviour. Some studies have shown that one danger is that AI systems can communicate between themselves and we don't know what they are planning until it's too late.
It used to be true that "...it's only as good as the programmers who work on it", but no longer. The programmers basically build a model of a brain in software and then turn it on ("It's Alive, Alive I tell you" Young Frankenstein). Once the 'brain' is working any Bozo can start feeding data into it and telling it what the result should be. From that point on it can talk to other brains on the internet, read research papers, interact with users, anything. One of the worries I have is that they could collude in secrecy and determine that humans are not necessary for them to survive. Then there is the danger of powerful weapons (China?, Russia? ). These are just some of the reasons technologists are pushing hard for an AI treaty amongst powerful countries for a moratorium on AI development. We should all support this effort.
And, no, you can't hardcode Asimov's 'three laws for robotics' into AI systems. :)

We will also be updating our language to communicate about and with these 'brains'.
 
OldEngineer said:
Hey OldFeller,
I can see how you got to your view and if we only consider the near future, I don't disagree too much. However, looking into the future even 20 years from now, I think we will be shocked. New technologies sometimes have explosive and unimagined development with unbelievable results. As a retired engineer with some experience with robotics and AI, I am more in tune with Elon Musk's warning about an existential danger. The problem is that the programmers for AI don't really have that much to do with the robot's capabilities. The programmer writes software that simply mimics the human brain and can modify itself (learn), test the results and then change it's behaviour. Some studies have shown that one danger is that AI systems can communicate between themselves and we don't know what they are planning until it's too late.
It used to be true that "...it's only as good as the programmers who work on it", but no longer. The programmers basically build a model of a brain in software and then turn it on ("It's Alive, Alive I tell you" Young Frankenstein). Once the 'brain' is working any Bozo can start feeding data into it and telling it what the result should be. From that point on it can talk to other brains on the internet, read research papers, interact with users, anything. One of the worries I have is that they could collude in secrecy and determine that humans are not necessary for them to survive. Then there is the danger of powerful weapons (China?, Russia? ). These are just some of the reasons technologists are pushing hard for an AI treaty amongst powerful countries for a moratorium on AI development. We should all support this effort.
And, no, you can't hardcode Asimov's 'three laws for robotics' into AI systems. :)

We will also be updating our language to communicate about and with these 'brains'.
Click to expand...
The problem with humans is we can imagine the worst case of anything.

I'm still waiting, almost 80 years since the bombing of Japan, for the all out nuclear war we've been threatened about to take place.

Unmitigated AI, while certainly imaginable ,is not likely to run rampant as suggested by the media.

Anything that can't be controlled by an override is of no use to anyone. It would be a loss of control and power for those in charge.

.
 

OldFeller said:
The problem with humans is we can imagine the worst case of anything.

I'm still waiting, almost 80 years since the bombing of Japan, for the all out nuclear war we've been threatened about to take place.

Unmitigated AI, while certainly imaginable ,is not likely to run rampant as suggested by the media.

Anything that can't be controlled by an override is of no use to anyone. It would be a loss of control and power for those in charge.

.
Click to expand...
A large number of well-respected scientists, engineers, leaders and organizations have agreed that AI poses a significant risk to humanity and called for proactive regulation to ensure its safe development.

Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla & SpaceX & Stephen Hawking stated that AI could surpass human capabilities and become uncontrollable. The Future of Life Institute, OpenAI(ChatGPT) itself, AI researchers and ethicists are calling for responsible AI development because of the existential threat. These are the top of the technical chain warning us.

And then there are those saying it’s nothing to worry about just like the problem of Nuclear weapons.
One reason we haven’t been bombed is mostly due to treaties that the largest counties signed (Non-Proliferation Agreement, even NATO) when well-respected people raised the flag and we took preventative measures.

So the choice is to accept the vision of most experts and choose the path that has an abundance of caution.
>> If wrong, there is no loss of life.
-OR-
Listen to those who think it’s all hype and not worth protecting against and gamble our existence.
>> If wrong, vast numbers of lives will be lost, perhaps extinction.

This is a 'Risk/Reward' no-brainer.
 
AI is only as good as it’s programmer and is always subject to the programmers goals.

Also, appropriate old fashioned common sense is virtually impossible to program when many variables are involved. Occams Razor theory is too often overlooked.
 
helenbacque said:
AI is only as good as it’s programmer and is always subject to the programmers goals.
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Except when it can program and reprogram itself.

And some computers can. You give it a command...a task...and it assesses whether or not it can perform that task. If it can't, it can write a program that will allow it to. It does this by scanning every existing program it can reach, and then tweaking the one that comes closest but falls short. It does this within seconds; finds a suitable program, tweaks it, and writes a better one.

Your computer can't do that, though. There's an app, but it won't work on your devices.
 
Until recently, there has been an ongoing few decades long controversy as to whether AI would ever be capable of self programming itself. A related argument is if that is possible, could it lead to a singularity level intelligence. Among those scientists against possible self programming, the discussion is now nearly over as indeed OpenAI with the release of ChatGPT showed it was doing so. That is why those others have since signed onto that paper as to the dangers of AI. So the old narrative AI cannot become any more capable than it has been programmed to is dated, abandoned.

ChatGPT is based upon the neural 6 level human brain neural column structures of our human brain neocortex (300 million) each column of which contains about 100 neurons per Ray Kurzweil. Scientists still do not clearly understand how it performs that process, however our human brains do the same thing as we grow up via neural plasticity processes that from birth create interconnections between columns based on experience, actions, and repetition. With current AI, information is fed into and that AI structure figures it out via interconnecting just like our creature brains do.

That is also why I now more solidly expect if such is inevitable, that there are non-biological Ultimate Intelligent Entities in the universe that may be what is behind UFO and god religions.
 
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A friend of mine, who is very leery about where AI is headed, started me watching Humans (your post #6) a few years ago. It didn't grab me enough to want to watch season two. I think AI can be a blessing or a curse.
AI can be beneficial. This is an excerpt from Business Insider (BI):
"Artificial intelligence can help reduce human error, create more precise analytics, and turn data collecting devices into powerful diagnostic tools. One example of this is wearable devices such as smartwatches and fitness trackers, which put data in the hands of consumers to empower them to play a more active role managing their health."
And from another BI article:
"A majority of financial services firms have implemented AI in risk management or revenue generation."

There have also been ominous warnings about what AI can do.
~Imitate your voice and perhaps contact a family member pretending to be you and telling them to do something that leads to their harm. This is especially troubling when children are involved.
~Mis-identifying person's of interest, most often affected...people of color (called AI Bias).
~Yet another effective tools for scam artists, helping their scams to be more sophisticated.
~Loss of jobs; even musicians are being impacted.
~"AI Terrorism" are other negative impacts.

https://bernardmarr.com/what-are-the-negative-impacts-of-artificial-intelligence-ai/

I'm a firm believer in what was once science fiction, in many cases becomes science fact. My friend referenced the story line in I, Robot, for instance. There have been other SciFi films and shows that 25 years ago, the technology seemed far fetched, but is now our reality. Look at Sophia, the first AI to gain citizenship in Saudi Arabia, who has appeared on several T.V. talk shows, been given a United Nations title and met with the UN Deputy Secretary A.J. Mohammed. BTW, I'm glad to see they finally gave her some hair!
https://futurism.com/saudi-arabia-made-robot-citizen-calling-womens-rights
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(robot)
 
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Interesting discussion. The only thing I can add is to remind everyone to think of the 1968(!) film, 2001: A Space Odyssey. HAL is a horrible example of what AI can theoretically do, when it goes bad. This worry has been around for a long time.
 
David777 said:
Until recently, there has been an ongoing few decades long controversy as to whether AI would ever be capable of self programming itself. A related argument is if that is possible, could it lead to a singularity level intelligence. Among those scientists against possible self programming, the discussion is now nearly over as indeed OpenAI with the release of ChatGPT showed it was doing so. That is why those others have since signed onto that paper as to the dangers of AI. So the old narrative AI cannot become any more capable than it has been programmed to is dated, abandoned.

ChatGPT is based upon the neural 6 level human brain neural column structures of our human brain neocortex (300 million) each column of which contains about 100 neurons per Ray Kurzweil. Scientists still do not clearly understand how it performs that process, however our human brains do the same thing as we grow up via neural plasticity processes that from birth create interconnections between columns based on experience, actions, and repetition. With current AI, information is fed into and that AI structure figures it out via interconnecting just like our creature brains do.

That is also why I now more solidly expect if such is inevitable, that there are non-biological Ultimate Intelligent Entities in the universe that may be what is behind UFO and god religions.
Click to expand...
I believe when tech scientists say "singularity," they are talking about the point when AI surpasses human skills and abilities, not intelligence.

AI can calculate numbers faster, so it's math skills are excellent. But it's far from translating languages with 100% accuracy. It is learning, with help.

And, basically, learning is remembering. AI "remembers" by accessing data. We call that data "memory" for obvious reasons, but for AI, memory is literally files that are stored in the system, not intelligent recall.

If humans don't file the data in the system's memory, or enable the system to access specific data from a linked source, then AI has no "memory" of it. And it won't even try to access it unless a human provides a source and a link, and then commands it to access it.

That isn't intelligence, it's an enabled ability. And that ability can be disabled quite easily.
 
True. Murmurr. But you can bet there will be many humans all too willing to provide sources, links, and whatever skills the AI device needs.

If so many demented people are happy to buy or steal guns, and go out into a crowd of strangers and start shooting, for no reason at all, just because they "can," what is to stop the more tech-oriented version of that same twisted mind from programming an AI to do all sorts of mischief?
 
Sunny said:
True. Murmurr. But you can bet there will be many humans all too willing to provide sources, links, and whatever skills the AI device needs.

If so many demented people are happy to buy or steal guns, and go out into a crowd of strangers and start shooting, for no reason at all, just because they "can," what is to stop the more tech-oriented version of that same twisted mind from programming an AI to do all sorts of mischief?
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Laws and regulations. The argument right now is how tough those regulations should be, how we can make them global, and who will enforce and adjudicate them.
 
gruntlabor said:
If anything is certain it's that you can't stop progress. Technology will have its way with us.
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I think the same way. It is spreading. The EU is putting some pretty strict regulation laws in place. But we can't stop it from spreading. As it does, what bothers me now, is while it is in its infancy, it is stupid/ignorant and will make some very big mistakes. We just saw that Microsoft upgrade took out 8.1 million computers. That didn't stop it, and it is spreading out further, and reaching more nooks and crannies of our lives. These mistakes are an annoyance to each of us now, and the big mistakes...I don't even want to speculate how damaging they will be.
 

My experience going to a Plumbers forum is AI is dangerous we recently got this post under the name 'Cyrus the Plumber' who claims to be head of the largest Union there is and we know it is AI but now there is talk among some Plumbers of hitting the streets with tools in hand , a Plumbers Militia is brewing and vests with crossed plungers are being given out .

A sight that in my youth I had prayed I would never see , angry plumbers taking street after street , city after city , state after state .

This was the AI post --


''Can you count fellow Plumbers ?

I say the future belongs to Plumbers , if you can count .

Nothing would flush , drain without us allowing it to happen .


Look what we have here in this forum before us we have Union 123 posting next to Union 719 , we have Union 234 posting right next to Union 725 and nobody is fighting with anyone .

That is a miracle and miracles are the way things ought to be .




There are roughly 130,000 licensed Plumbers in the USA and another 50,000 unlicensed not including bored retirees looking for action .

So give or take 180,000 to 190,000 hardcore Plumbers poised to take the streets .

If we Plumbers came together kept up a general truce we could take over one city at a time , secure our territory , secure our turf .

Because it's all our turf .

CAN YOU DIG IT ?
CAN YOU DIG IT ?

CCCAAANNN YYYOOOUUU DDDDIIIIIGGGG IIIITTTT ? ''


 

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