Alabama state supreme court ruled that embryos are “extrauterine children.”

Some things are absolutely Crazy. Including the right to own and have a Cellular turned on while driving, that being said I believe common sense will avail when it comes to Embryos and Clones. But the People, Clinic has to show perfect protection of the embryo as it is the ultimate fault of the whole plan. If you do not have the proper protection how can the Embryo ever be safe. You have no right to even consider having Embryo on site, It's their problem. POC shirking their Legal status is always a fact...

I have no problem with a Woman Politician running for POTUS speaking her mind about Embryos. She outright says about Her family.
Maybe launching them Embryo's on a Space X to Deep space is a great idea. Hot-ta=ta=cha-cha ! Why not just play gods and see what happens a few million years in the future. Great fun. Total domination of the Galaxi!

MSN

I would guess that was Gods plan in the beginning, using meteors / Comets to populate the planets of the Universe. Makes sense to me.

Of course the fast Gap is the Clinic that has the Embryo in Cirbo stasis.
The problem is confounded when once-happily mated pairs dissolve before their potential progeny is activated. Who gets custody of the embryo? Can one donor unilaterally decide to donate it for research, adoption, or disposal if the other opposes the decision? Variations in international legal responses further complicate the problem – a problem sure to be encountered more often as gamete selection increasingly transcends borders. Given that many countries outlaw IVF for single women, the market for international gamete transfer is ripe. [1]

Uh Huh its the Dr. in Charge who is the Crook most likely.
 

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A bit off topic, but we met a nice gay couple on a recent cruise to the Caribbean. They live in a small town in Alabama. One is retired and the other works for the Alabama Attorney General. The guy that works in government can't wait until his 2 years are up and he can retire. They can't wait to leave Alabama. We finally met people that didn't make us feel bad for living in Texas. :ROFLMAO:

This new law in Alabama is approaching The Handmaid's Tale in its control and oppression of women.
 
They are trying to set a legal precedent. That's what they are trying to do. Here's a link to the court page: Alabama Judicial System The decision (posted in the NY Times) did not say how many of them voted for or against. The court is made of 7 men and 2 women. I did not read all of their profiles, but the ones I did read all seem to be educated and raised in the cloistered Southern atmosphere.

Lots of states have cloistered atmospheres. Cities have cloistered groups too, AKA as In groups and Out groups. In-group/Out-group - Ethics Unwrapped. An In Group is established when, for example, you go to the "right" college, or you have the "right" family name. You didn't DO anything to get that name, but you were born a Kardashian, for example. Automatic In Group member by accident of birth. (I am not a fan of the Kardashians, but many are, so I use that as an example. In olden times you might be born a Penn after William Penn, the man they named Pennsylvania after.)

So, the In Group, these 9 people, have just passed a ruling that will apply to the Out Group, all those who disagree with their world view.

It's tyranny by the minority.
 
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Some things are absolutely Crazy. Including the right to own and have a Cellular turned on while driving, that being said I believe common sense will avail when it comes to Embryos and Clones. But the People, Clinic has to show perfect protection of the embryo as it is the ultimate fault of the whole plan. If you do not have the proper protection how can the Embryo ever be safe. You have no right to even consider having Embryo on site, It's their problem. POC shirking their Legal status is always a fact...

I have no problem with a Woman Politician running for POTUS speaking her mind about Embryos. She outright says about Her family.
Maybe launching them Embryo's on a Space X to Deep space is a great idea. Hot-ta=ta=cha-cha ! Why not just play gods and see what happens a few million years in the future. Great fun. Total domination of the Galaxi!

MSN

I would guess that was Gods plan in the beginning, using meteors / Comets to populate the planets of the Universe. Makes sense to me.

Of course the fast Gap is the Clinic that has the Embryo in Cirbo stasis.
The problem is confounded when once-happily mated pairs dissolve before their potential progeny is activated. Who gets custody of the embryo? Can one donor unilaterally decide to donate it for research, adoption, or disposal if the other opposes the decision? Variations in international legal responses further complicate the problem – a problem sure to be encountered more often as gamete selection increasingly transcends borders. Given that many countries outlaw IVF for single women, the market for international gamete transfer is ripe. [1]

Uh Huh its the Dr. in Charge who is the Crook most likely.
You might want to read the first section of the ruling. It explains how the lawsuits began that brought this all the way to the Supreme Court. An accident caused several embryos to be destroyed and the parents searched for every possible way to sue the medical facility. https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/4b56014daa6dda84/a039b1d9-full.pdf
 

From today's Washington Post:​

Embryos are vessels of hope, pain and love. But they are not children.​

The Alabama Supreme Court’s ruling has gone too far​

imrs.php

Perspective by Monica Hesse

Did you know that after an IVF couple undergoes an embryonic transfer, it’s common for their medical clinic to provide a magnified picture of the blastocyst? At three or five days post-fertilization, it doesn’t look like much: a circle, maybe less than a millimeter wide. But if you spend time scrolling fertility message boards, you’ll see a lot of them — would-be mothers sharing pictures of their blastocysts, and strangers enthusing that those blastocysts look cute, or hardy, or feisty, or some other adjective that doesn’t describe a minuscule sphere so much as it points to the hell of infertility treatments. After all this time, you still don’t have a baby, but you do have a blastocyst and a pile of hope.

In December 2020, a patient at Mobile Infirmary Medical Center somehow wandered into the hospital storage facility where embryos created through in vitro fertilization were being kept cryogenically frozen. The patient then somehow managed to remove containers of embryos from their storage receptacles. And then, shocked by the subzero temperatures at which the embryos had been stored, the patient dropped the embryos and destroyed them.

Several couples, would-be parents whose embryos had been destroyed, brought forth a wrongful-death lawsuit against the hospital, saying that the storage facility should have been properly secured. On Friday, the Alabama Supreme Court ruled on behalf of these couples, the upshot of which became the headline that you probably read earlier this week: The embryos could be considered wrongfully dead because they could have been considered alive.

The embryos were people, according to the court, with all the rights of human children.

If you have never been close to someone who has undergone fertility treatments, then perhaps you aren’t aware of the particulars of IVF: Months of testing. Weeks of home injections on a pinch-an-inch square of stomach fat. Daily clinic visits with intrusive probes, sonograms, measurements, dosage adjustments, more needles — by now you’ve run out of stomach squares, but, land ho! The egg retrieval date is in sight. An anesthesiologist puts you under, you wake up blearily to hear they got seven or 18 eggs. Five days later, the clinic calls to tell you that of those 18 eggs, two or three of them became blastocysts. You’re not pregnant at this stage, so maybe you celebrate with a glass of wine.

I have known women who used IVF before beginning the cancer treatments that they knew would fry their reproductive systems. Women whose first pregnancies ruptured their uteruses and who needed IVF to try again. Women who were right as rain but whose husbands had sluggish sperm, or not enough of it. I have known women who referred to their frozen embryos as their children, who had names already picked out for them, whose embryos were “Eliot” or “Miranda.”

I have known women who successfully got pregnant with their first embryonic transfer, then forgot the other embryos even existed. They were in the middle of getting a breakfast for their preschooler when a call from their clinics about a change in embryonic storage fees made them say, “Wait, you still have those?” One woman told me about getting such a call, then said she cried for the rest of the day, just from the memory of how stressful her fertility treatments had been.

It’s complicated, is what I’m saying. Women who have been through it will tell you that IVF can make you crazy. It’s a marathon that you begin only after you’ve already been walking for so long. The feelings created during fertility treatments exist in a space outside of logic. You know that the egg removed from your body was not yet your baby, because it is, in fact, an egg. You know that the blastocyst fertilized in a petri dish was not yet your baby, because it is not riding home with you in a car seat wearing a onesie. It is, in fact, in a petri dish.
You also know that you are doing this because you hope that one day, with the timing and medical intervention and luck, it will become your baby. You have to keep up that level of hope — that stubborn, illogical level of hope — because otherwise it would be too exhausting to forge ahead. The blastocyst is a baby in the eye of the beholder.
Should it be a baby in the eye of the law?

The Alabama Supreme Court ruled that embryos were people, with all the rights of human children. (Raymond Boyd/Getty Images)
After the blastocyst has grown comes the hard part. Embryos must survive their cryogenic thaw. One must successfully implant in the walls of a uterus that has been carefully primed with a cocktail of hormones. (That’s when you are pregnant and stop drinking wine.) Then, it must grow, and keep growing. Past the embryonic stage, past the first trimester, then the second, through a battery of ultrasounds and doctors appointments, into the delivery room with a doctor and some whip-smart nurses.

The baby is born. It cries. It learns to nurse or drink from a bottle; it learns to sleep through the night. The baby discovers its feet and likes to hold on to its toes while its diaper is being changed, laughing. The baby is now named Owen or Cecilia, by the way. Eliot and Miranda had seemed like the right names for the blastocyst, but once Owen was a person in the world, it became clear that Owen was the right name. Before you were choosing a name for a fantasy future; now you are living in a real present. Eliot was an idea; Owen is a child.
The blastocyst existed in a petri dish and in your heart; the child lives in your heart and in your house.
IVF is a miracle. It’s modern science. It’s a factory, it’s a gantlet, it’s blood, it’s waiting, it’s precise, it’s a crapshoot, cross your fingers, take your multivitamin, it’s hope, it’s hope, it’s hope.
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What happened in the cryogenic freezing room of an Alabama hospital was a damn tragedy. I’ve read over the circumstances a dozen times, trying to make sense of it, based on the limited information we have about an unfathomable sequence of events. The patient who wandered into the storage room and destroyed the embryos — how could they have done such a thing? Did they know what they were doing? Did they even begin to realize the hope they were destroying?

That, at the end of the day, is what’s wrong with the Alabama Supreme Court ruling.
I have seen other writers scornfully note how this ruling represents the further rollback of reproductive rights, and I agree with them. I have seen other writers worry that the abundant biblical quotations used in the Alabama ruling represent a creeping theocracy — and I agree with them.
But at the end of the day, what is wrong with the Alabama Supreme Court ruling is that it is trying to provide legal protection and personhood to fantasies. It is injecting blastocysts with the vast emotional meaning that is natural and necessary for a prospective parent, and that is wholly inappropriate for the legal system.
I cannot imagine that the families in that suit, filled with grief and watching their hopes disintegrate before their eyes, are in a place to fully comprehend the scope of the wrong that was done to them, and what might make it right. I doubt I would be able to fully comprehend it either. But what happened in that hospital in Mobile was the devastation of a dream. It was not the death of a child.
 
It's madness. It's also a nonsense.

Why are women so under attack in recent times? Childless mothers, transgender issues, control of their own wombs. So many issues that were once thought to have been sorted are now coming back into play. This is both politics and religion, I'm afraid. It's a terrible combination.
 
................ Best of all, from a tax perspective, they never grow up. Can keep those extrauterine children alive until you die at age 80 and claim them every year.

Wait.....it gets worse. In a divorce, now child custody enters into the argument. Custody of the frozen embryos.

Can a parent leave all their worldly goods to the embryos when they die, with a trust fund set up after the parent's death to keep the embryos "alive" and frozen for perpetuity?

The Alabama Supreme Court has basically created a class of people who never have to die. Now what?
Except it costs about a $1000 a year to keep them frozen. Not like you can put them in the freezer at home.
 
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For quite some time, I have considered Alabama to be the most backward state in the country. One party had a pedophile judge for a candidate for senator. He lost by about 1.5% of the vote. Every Gomer, Goober, Billy Bob, voted for him. I wouldn't be surprised at any thing that bunch of hillbillies would come up with.
 
It's madness. It's also a nonsense.

Why are women so under attack in recent times? Childless mothers, transgender issues, control of their own wombs. So many issues that were once thought to have been sorted are now coming back into play. This is both politics and religion, I'm afraid. It's a terrible combination.
About 15 years ago, I felt like the world was starting to hit a really good stride and the idea of 'we're all in this together', one for all and all for one' and 'we are all one' was coming to the fore. And then something happened and we seem to have done a 180 degree turn and it's all going to hell. In fact, it seems like we've stepped onto a slippery slope to catastrophe with both feet and the slickest shoes in town.

Folks, I think our generation may have gotten to live through the Golden Age of our society and now we're getting to see it circle the drain. Will it be climate change that ends this story or will it be a nuclear disaster or will it be humanity driving itself back into some medieval age?🥺 (yes, I'm feeling pretty gloomy tonight!)
 
About 15 years ago, I felt like the world was starting to hit a really good stride and the idea of 'we're all in this together', one for all and all for one' and 'we are all one' was coming to the fore. And then something happened and we seem to have done a 180 degree turn and it's all going to hell. In fact, it seems like we've stepped onto a slippery slope to catastrophe with both feet and the slickest shoes in town.

Folks, I think our generation may have gotten to live through the Golden Age of our society and now we're getting to see it circle the drain. Will it be climate change that ends this story or will it be a nuclear disaster or will it be humanity driving itself back into some medieval age?🥺 (yes, I'm feeling pretty gloomy tonight!)
I don't think we got the Golden Age of modern America at all.

I do agree that we didn't have anything near the homelessness and lack of a safety net among Americans in the 1970s vs. today. That is because we still had very high Post WWII income tax rates on the wealthiest, we had Welfare, and we had dedicated, designated low-income apartment complexes all over the land. (I think New York state still has those, but many other states got rid of them.).

I'm not a fan of gigantic low-income only apartments. Not at all. But darn it, some housing needs to be built. So many hundreds of thousands of people, men, women, Seniors and children, all living in cars, RVs and tents.

It's shameful. It's the greatest shame of our country, IMO. Right up there with the shame of racism is this virulent worship of the wealthy and hatred of the poor so very prevalent in America now.

The 70s were not perfect. Not at all. Still a ton of discrimination against women and minorities in hiring and getting into the best colleges. Teens being drafted to fight in Vietnam.

But I heard a social worker interviewed once and she had been a Social Worker since the 1970s. She said what I have seen with my own eyes - it was never this bad in the 1970s and early 80s. There were far fewer lost souls living outdoors back then. She has watched it get worse and worse over all these decades and people at the top don't care much.

All this homelessness has happened because of Public Policy decisions at the top. It really is a Monopoly game, and when you play Monopoly, some people lose everything. Then they go off and do something else. It's just fake money. But in REAL life, when Americans lose at this game of Monopoly, there are terrible, life-altering consequences.

In real life, it's not a game.


I think the Alabama SC is just playing a new game. Just having a little fun. Not funny.
 
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Just think. If the supreme court decides that they think life begins at conception then that embryo gets all the constitutions rights. That embryo can buy a gun!;)
The US is moving closer to a theocracy - a frightening thought, especially when considering how the planet's theocracies treat their citizens. Iran, anyone? How about Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan? While women and children get the worst of it, men's freedoms are likewise severely restricted. Don't think it can happen here? It already did. The Puritans operated under a theocracy... how'd that work out for their everyday citizens?

I'm currently reading, "The Confidence Game" by Maria Konnikova, a non-fiction book explaining the methods of con artists, and why and how people get conned.

While reading it, I've been gobsmacked at how many current political leaders are little more than confidence men (and women).

Smooth, slick talkers claim to have all the answers, even to extraordinarily complex problems that diligent experts have yet to solve. Indeed, these con artists never explain their solutions in advance of being elected. ("Trust me. Have CONFIDENCE.") And yet, people continue to believe even when these geniuses don't solve the problem after being elected and the opportunity was there.

Their "gift" is being able to get people to believe in them, despite mountains of evidence proving they're not worthy of it. No matter that they're caught many times, with their lies and fallacies shown in the light of day, many prefer to continue believing rather than admitting to themselves that they'd been taken in.

These smooth talkers misrepresent what they're selling (junk marketed as quality goods - flimflam artists), catfish and bleed dry people who are looking for love, declare their "miracle vitamins" and "look younger" tonics, lotions, etc., will make us all younger, thinner, more attractive, happier, smarter, you name it.

Declaring a frozen embryo to be a child is either being willfully blind to the science (more common than we'd like to admit), or is exercising a larger agenda (demanding their religious beliefs be followed by everyone else). Look behind the curtain, people.

I hope and pray Americans will wake up soon. Very soon. Very, very soon. With every con that continues unchallenged, more personal freedoms are lost.
 
Well when you have a large percentage of the population and politicians that do put their faith in the con as well as being anti science, election deniers, anti climate change, anti women's rights, trying to wipe out the history of this country, trying to control voters rights..etc etc... the country will regress.
 
Well when you have a large percentage of the population and politicians that do put their faith in the con as well as being anti science, election deniers, anti climate change, anti women's rights, trying to wipe out the history of this country, trying to control voters rights..etc etc... the country will regress.
Not if you have a very charismatic narcissitic old man who will lead you. Take your pick. No matter what dudue or women they groom to snow the public, these personalities are tested by fire. Public approval. It is so strange that money molds the character of these creations. The images and propaganda of all the political stars are almost caricature like. Not just in comics, IRL.
 
I don't think we got the Golden Age of modern America at all.

I do agree that we didn't have anything near the homelessness and lack of a safety net among Americans in the 1970s vs. today. That is because we still had very high Post WWII income tax rates on the wealthiest, we had Welfare, and we had dedicated, designated low-income apartment complexes all over the land. (I think New York state still has those, but many other states got rid of them.).

I'm not a fan of gigantic low-income only apartments. Not at all. But darn it, some housing needs to be built. So many hundreds of thousands of people, men, women, Seniors and children, all living in cars, RVs and tents.

It's shameful. It's the greatest shame of our country, IMO. Right up there with the shame of racism is this virulent worship of the wealthy and hatred of the poor so very prevalent in America now.

The 70s were not perfect. Not at all. Still a ton of discrimination against women and minorities in hiring and getting into the best colleges. Teens being drafted to fight in Vietnam.

But I heard a social worker interviewed once and she had been a Social Worker since the 1970s. She said what I have seen with my own eyes - it was never this bad in the 1970s and early 80s. There were far fewer lost souls living outdoors back then. She has watched it get worse and worse over all these decades and people at the top don't care much.

All this homelessness has happened because of Public Policy decisions at the top. It really is a Monopoly game, and when you play Monopoly, some people lose everything. Then they go off and do something else. It's just fake money. But in REAL life, when Americans lose at this game of Monopoly, there are terrible, life-altering consequences.

In real life, it's not a game.


I think the Alabama SC is just playing a new game. Just having a little fun. Not funny.

My love for the US has been mentioned many times. But honestly, I believe it's in the very worst shape within my life time. I hold on to the ideals, to the dream, but in reality there is just so much hate, division, and pointed fingers, it's so sad. The US stood for something on the world stage, but it's in the process of throwing that away. I hope it recovers, I truly do.
 
This is a terrible decision but there is nowhere to go but the Supreme Court and they probably won't hear it.
It is grounded soley on State law, there would have to be a federal basis/ question to appeal. It centers on Fetal Homicide laws, which the USSC has ruled years ago, are federally constitutional.
 

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