Allegations against men by women

[Rose65]

Reading about what is happening at the CBI, where allegations of rape and stalking have been made. This has already resulted in great loss of business.
I have a general point that I find bothers me. Allegations are just that, presumably nothing proven yet.

So why so often do we hear of cases of allegations against men by women, where his name is published in the media before any trial takes place? Often it is years after the alleged offence is said to have happened. In many cases the man's name and career is ruined no matter what the outcome.

It is the principle of the matter that I am wondering about. That women apparently have this power to ruin a man. Maybe I am missing something but it seems wrong to me. Of course punishment should be made IF the man is guilty but surely that is for a court of law to decide?

An example is Eleanor Williams who accused men and was found to be lying. Their lives were made very hard throughout. So injustice can result. Perhaps both parties should remain anonymous until a verdict is reached.

 

[fuzzybuddy]

And since you weren't there........ well, who do you believe, the guy or the woman? Previous, a woman had to prove in a court of law that a crime was committed, most of the times, in private. Now, the legal pendulum has swung to the female side. I don't think it's fair to men, as the previous way was unfair to women. I don't see a happy solution to the unfairness.

 

[hollydolly]

I agree. No identifications of suspected offenders, should be published in the media unless they've been found guilty in a court of law,...

The no smoke without fire scenario will stick like glue to people even if they're as innocent as pure driven snow when they're named as suspects ... and will follow them throughout their lives..even when found entirely blameless

 

[Rose65]

I'm glad I am not mistaken in at least questioning this matter. Obviously such crimes can be very serious and certainly deserve punishment but that is the very reason to ensure fairness and justice to both sides. A man's life and reputation are every bit as important as a woman's.

 

[OneEyedDiva]

CBI?

 

[Warrigal]

The presumption of innocence has a very specific definition and application. It does not mean that they cannot be accused of a crime or that no-one may mention their name or the crime that they are accused of.

However, once a trial commences 'sub judice' kicks in and all discussion of the crime in the media must cease..

The presumption of Innocence is a principle that states the prosecution must prove guilt, and the accused is considered innocent until proven otherwise. The presumption of innocence ensures individuals will be punished by a court, only in accordance with the law.

Until a person is found guilty, they are known as the ‘accused’. An accused can be held on remand (in prison) while awaiting trial, but even if they are denied bail, they are considered innocent until proven otherwise.

The onus of proof of the guilt of the accused is on the prosecution. The prosecution must prove every element of the offence, rather than the burden shifting to the accused to prove their innocence. The standard of proof in criminal trials is beyond reasonable doubt. The prosecution must satisfy this high standard before a person can be found guilty. In criminal trials, judges or juries decide whether the prosecution has proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Sub judice is a Latin term used in law to describe a case or matter that is under trial or being considered by a judge or court12345. When a case is sub judice, some details of it cannot be discussed in newspapers, on television, or in other public forums

 

[rgp]

This was the topic on talk radio sometime back. The 'expert' guest noted that in many cases , in all walks of life, men are refusing to work with women [one-on-one] for this very reason.

The radio show host even said there are two fellow employees that will not go into a 'booth' alone with a female employee.

Exaggerated responce ? Maybe but IMO, it falls under ... Better safe than sorry.

Even though I worked in a mostly male environment ...... I'm sure glad i am retired.

 

[Magna-Carta]

CBI?

Confederation of British Industry. It is a non-profit organization based in the UK. It’s a lobby group that represents the interests of British businesses; works to promote the competitiveness and growth of businesses in the UK.

Some of its business members are cancelling membership of the organisation due to allegations of rape and stalking. Within the organisation itself (the CBI). One of the allegations is of a woman who was working at one of the CBI's overseas offices was sexually assaulted by two male colleagues.

Alleged stalking at the London office.

UPDATE: The British government is also supsending it's association with the CBI

 

[OneEyedDiva]

Confederation of British Industry. It is a non-profit organization based in the UK. It’s a lobby group that represents the interests of British businesses works to promote the competitiveness and growth of businesses in the UK.

Some of its business members are cancelling membership of the organisation due to allegations of rape and stalking. Within the organisation itself (the CBI). One of the allegations is of a woman who was working at one of the CBI's overseas offices was ******ly assaulted by two male colleagues.

Alleged stalking at the London office.

UPDATE: The British government is also supsending it's association with the CBI

Thank you.

 

[Jules]

In Canada names usually aren’t released until the person is formally charged or at least well-along in the process. No names of accusers or victims ever if they’re under 18.

 

[hollydolly]

In Canada names usually aren’t released until the person is formally charged or at least well-along in the process. No names of accusers or victims ever if they’re under 18.

Same here generally..if the accused is under 18... but there seems to be no stopping the media from naming people.. before there's been a trial.. much less a guilty verdict.

often-times poor innocents families and homes are targeted for a long time before the case comes to court.. and then if found innocent, the damage is already done..

 

[CarolfromTX]

Remember the Duke lacrosse team rape accusations? Turned out to be totally false, but not before the reputations of those young men were dragged through all the mud the internet could find. Forty years ago I would have believed the woman automatically. Now? Not so much. Too many people with agendas.

 

[Rose65]

This was the topic on talk radio sometime back. The 'expert' guest noted that in many cases , in all walks of life, men are refusing to work with women [one-on-one] for this very reason.

The radio show host even said there are two fellow employees that will not go into a 'booth' alone with a female employee.

Exaggerated responce ? Maybe but IMO, it falls under ... Better safe than sorry.

Even though I worked in a mostly male environment ...... I'm sure glad i am retired.

I do not blame men one bit. They must protect themselves too.

 

[Rose65]

Remember the Duke lacrosse team rape accusations? Turned out to be totally false, but not before the reputations of those young men were dragged through all the mud the internet could find. Forty years ago I would have believed the woman automatically. Now? Not so much. Too many people with agendas.

I wouldn't believe anyone without evidence.

 

[Rose65]

Same here generally..if the accused is under 18... but there seems to be no stopping the media from naming people.. before there's been a trial.. much less a guilty verdict.

often-times poor innocents families and homes are targeted for a long time before the case comes to court.. and then if found innocent, the damage is already done..

That is just so awful and unfair. There is so much ignorance and too many emotional reactions without proper basis.

 

[Mike]

This has always happened, though lately it seems to have
gathered momentum, with more people being accused.

Have you noticed that the accused are always rich or they
are famous men, did they have, "Bombast", when they were
young and convince the girl that it is a good idea to leap in
bed together.

In later years learning that he had made good in the World
and was worth a great deal of money, the girl, now a woman,
Goes after him.

Sounds like greed.

Mike.

 

[Magna-Carta]

I do not blame men one bit. They must protect themselves too.

I remember going to a local bank and sitting in an office, I closed the door behind me and sat down. The woman behind the desk then got up and opened the door before sitting down again. Later I noticed she didn’t do it with female customers. I wondered if I was being profiled.

When it's felt you are already a perpetrator, or something, how might I react around others in the future.

Already I see some men avoiding some women, unless its in a public place. I also see some men not going to the aid of some women, but just walking off. Its all very sad, and not the world I was brought up in.

 

[Magna-Carta]

What kind of message does this send to both men and woman? The woman in this video is clearly distressed by a potential… well I’m not sure what she is distressed by. Your guess is as good as mine. How embarrassing for everyone concerned.

Is this a lesson for us all. At 1:05, "You Do Not approach women in a parking lot!"

Should we be grateful that this person doesn’t seem to have a gun?

 

[Lilac]

@Magna-Carta, IMO I think she is a few bricks shy of a full load from her TikTok video. If she was screaming at him, I wonder what others thought of HER in the parking lot. I would have given her a wide berth too. Again, we only have her word that he was cussing/yelling & not the other half of the story. The commentator's response is good, especially about main-stream media influence. What if this man was trying to tell her something important, ie. keys/cell/wallet dropped or she left some of her packages inside at the checkout? Also, I don't think she's someone that would ever own a gun.

I had less problems working with men than with women & told my husband many times that I prefered to work with men. Too much drama, backstabbing & heaven-forbid that you didn't agree with some of them. Those were the ones we didn't have anything to do with after hours. Sad to say, but there was only a few women over the years that I trusted & respected. We still get together once a month for a retirees lunch.

As far as talking to a man or anyone in a lot, I generally don't have a problem with it. I'll look at a guy passing me & nod my head & almost always get the same response back. Sadly, it seems that too many people these days don't want to acknowledge others around them are also human. So what if they don't dress or look like you. It doesn't mean they're automatically bad & it's no reason to be nasty to them.

I agree. No identifications of suspected offenders, should be published in the media unless they've been found guilty in a court of law,...

The no smoke without fire scenario will stick like glue to people even if they're as innocent as pure driven snow when they're named as suspects ... and will follow them throughout their lives..even when found entirely blameless

Same here generally..if the accused is under 18... but there seems to be no stopping the media from naming people.. before there's been a trial.. much less a guilty verdict.

often-times poor innocents families and homes are targeted for a long time before the case comes to court.. and then if found innocent, the damage is already done..

Your spot on Holly & sadly no one will ever apologize or try to make right those who have been wrongly accused along with their families.

 

[Magna-Carta]

If she was screaming at him, I wonder what others thought of HER in the parking lot.

I think it would be possible that if others were in the parking lot, seeing the woman shouting and 'shaking'. I think others, both men and woman, would have challenged the man. Even if others witnessed nothing in particular, their thought might be what has lead up to this. The man in this incident might then never approach women in these circumstances, ever again?

I would have given her a wide berth too. Again, we only have her word that he was cussing/yelling & not the other half of the story. The commentator's response is good, especially about main-stream media influence. What if this man was trying to tell her something important, ie. keys/cell/wallet dropped or she left some of her packages inside at the checkout? Also, I don't think she's someone that would ever own a gun.

I chose that video becouse the commentator's response seemed somewhat balanced. How might it be possible to know if someone is the type of person to own a gun or not?

I had less problems working with men than with women & told my husband many times that I prefered to work with men. Too much drama, backstabbing & heaven-forbid that you didn't agree with some of them. Those were the ones we didn't have anything to do with after hours. Sad to say, but there was only a few women over the years that I trusted & respected. We still get together once a month for a retirees lunch.

Same here, in my esperiance.

As for the OP, I think I’ve read that one of the original accusations was 3 years ago. Yet even though there was an investigation no prosecution took place, unless someone can find otherwise.

It’s the Crown Prosecution Service who decides if a case goes to court. If there is not enough evidence then it won’t go to court; if the statements of the person who had been allegedly attack become too contradictory, then it might not go to court either. Of cause none of this means that nothing serous took place within the CBI, but what’s going wrong when 3 years after the first alleged assault, very little seems to have happed from a prosecution point of view.

 

[mrstime]

Reading about what is happening at the CBI, where allegations of rape and stalking have been made. This has already resulted in great loss of business.
I have a general point that I find bothers me. Allegations are just that, presumably nothing proven yet.

So why so often do we hear of cases of allegations against men by women, where his name is published in the media before any trial takes place? Often it is years after the alleged offence is said to have happened. In many cases the man's name and career is ruined no matter what the outcome.

It is the principle of the matter that I am wondering about. That women apparently have this power to ruin a man. Maybe I am missing something but it seems wrong to me. Of course punishment should be made IF the man is guilty but surely that is for a court of law to decide?

An example is Eleanor Williams who accused men and was found to be lying. Their lives were made very hard throughout. So injustice can result. Perhaps both parties should remain anonymous until a verdict is reached.

I believe when a woman lies about rape or other assault, she should be sent to prison for the same length of time that he would have gotten if he had been found guilty and sent to prison.

 

[Magna-Carta]

I’ve just found this. I’m not subscribed to this channel, nor was I aware of this channel until now. Has it really gotten this bad? Men being afraid to be alone at work with woman, and women being increasingly wary of hiring women.

I don’t go along with what’s being said here towards the end of the video, but none the less see it happening. I see it in that men are spending less time with women both in and outside of the workplace. That’s not healthy; in fact it’s very unhealthy. It promotes a, ‘us and them’ attitude between the sexes. But it’s happening. It seems that many men are turning away, whether we, (both sexes) feel it’s justified or not. The future doesn’t look bright.

Whether we like these types of videos or not, (and I don’t particular like them) there seems to be more and more of them. And more people are watching them, and rightly or wrongly they are taking advice from them too. At what point is society going to start collapsing, if it’s not already.

 

[Lilac]

I think it would be possible that if others were in the parking lot, seeing the woman shouting and 'shaking'. I think others, both men and woman, would have challenged the man. Even if others witnessed nothing in particular, their thought might be what has lead up to this. The man in this incident might then never approach women in these circumstances, ever again?

I'll always be curious as to why he tried to approach her, however we won't ever find out. I always want the whole story.

Something that caught my attention in her video was when she said he was 30 feet from her when he first said, "Excuse me ma'am" & her reaction was to turn & yell at him "Do not approach me!". He immediately complied with her request & went in the other direction & kept away from her. She then went on saying she continued yelling "Do not approach me" at him.

He may have replied to her non-stop screaming at him with with a F-bomb comments, but he did leave after her first request as she continued the contact.

If this guy had been mentally ill, she could have really provoked him into violence by the non-stop yelling instead of leaving the area in her car. If she was so scared/threatened, why not call the police? Instead, she had to make a video.

Personally, I wouldn't take her advise, but that's just me. You made a good choice picking this video for a discussion. We could go on & on with this one...

IMO, if you see an altercation already in progress, call the police giving as much information as you can & observe (if you can do it safely) what is going so you can be a good witness for them. If you see something that looks like it may turn into something, call the police. Just remember that situations may not be what it appears to be & the one thought to be the aggressor may just be the victim.

 

[Jules]

I had less problems working with men than with women & told my husband many times that I prefered to work with men. Too much drama, backstabbing & heaven-forbid that you didn't agree with some of them. Those were the ones we didn't have anything to do with after hours.

Ditto.

 

[Jules]

A professor was accused with sexual assault by one of his students. She was really attractive and well-spoken. His name was mud for over a year until it was proven she was lying. He had proof right from the beginning. The system took that long to expose her lie.